Shyness/Introversion vs mild AS-Differences.

Page 4 of 6 [ 94 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Embroglio
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 185

17 Jan 2012, 2:56 pm

I've been diagnosed with Aspergers, but I've taken the AQ test and got a score of 38. I have to wonder if I was misdiagnosed as a child because I have no problem with making friends, and forming connections with people. I have to wonder if it's possible that I've outgrown it because it doesn't seem to give me any problems anymore with it. I can make friends with just about anyone though I have trouble with keeping friends who are "normal", but then again I find "normal" people to be boring. I have an extremely active social life and my weekends are full of social activities and it dominates my weekend. The only reason why I have trouble with relationships is because I have such high standards. I don't get "special" interests either I don't become obsessed about topics. I know when DSM5 comes out I won't qualify for a diagnosis anymore because my case is so mild. The cut off point seems to be more harsh and leaves those of us with extremely mild cases out of it.



Mdyar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,516

17 Jan 2012, 3:42 pm

I can remember somewhere between 16- 17, I hid in the bathroom when my mother had some company over. So the guest would appear, and I would disappear for a moment/ to a few minutes to gather my thoughts. Or I'd anticipate an exchange and worry about the exchange and over think it by rehearsal, over and over of what to say and how to say it-- this had a quality of madness about it. As I got older the worse this became.

It took me 40 years to gain insight into why this or how this played out like it did : It boiled down to a lack in ToM by my attention to things outside of the social sphere. Reading and tinkering and doing solitaire stuff, paved the way for social ineptness. I didn't know how people' thinked.'

There's a component of executive dysfunction in this scenario, because you get into that routine and you stay there in that routine-- unconsciously.
It boils down to lack of interest, and the lack interest is from the lack of practice, and this 'want' stemmed from that executive rut.

I think shyness and introversion correlate, but are entirely different. To me, any degree of shyness is a form a of anxiety, and anxiety has a pathological component about it.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

17 Jan 2012, 4:00 pm

I must say I am strange for an Aspie. Everything I do in my life is revolved around people in some way - even though I don't associate myself with people very much. Like ever since I was about two years old, I apparently used to have a fascination with people, and loved to be played with, and I always used to try to draw people, and from then onwards, whenever I did something creative, it was always revolved around people, and it still is now. In every picture I drew it's always been of people who I know, or when I've ever wrote stories it's always been about people mostly interacting.

And, get this - I am obsessed with buses. Most people would think, ''oh, an Aspie is obsessed with buses - she's probably a trainspotter, collects and memorizes routes and timetables of lots of different buses, and knows everything about everything to do with buses.'' But no - my obsessions don't seem to work like that - I am obsessed with buses because I am obsessed with the people who operate them. I used to try to memorize their shifts by studying a pattern of who's driving my bus and when, but now I've lost track, and due to my poor maths aswell, I can't really be bothered to work it out, so I just take pot luck of which bus-drivers I will get each day. But my interests always seem to be revolved around people. I am interested in people. I have Social Phobia, Social Anxiety, even a phobia of people in general, but that doesn't stop me from being fascinated by them. I am interested in moths and butterflies, but only to a normal extent - and that's because no people are involved.

Also, when I was a child, in every game I played I always pretended I was a sociable person interacting with imaginary people. When I played with toys as a child, it always had to be figures, so that I could make a group of ''friends'' interact with eachother. Like I didn't make my Pokemon figures ''fight'', instead I made them interact with eachother and lives social lives like real people.

And now I write stories of bus-drivers, but every story is always based around social interaction and social lives, etc.

Is this normal for an Aspie - who always happens to have Social Phobia???


_________________
Female


roccoslife
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 386
Location: Essex, UK

17 Jan 2012, 5:25 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
The difference between AS and shyness is, shyness is shyness and a person with AS may or may not be shy. Shy people usually feel that everyone is judging them in a social situation, and worry that they will judge will be judged negatively and so what others think of them is the source of their social anxiety and shyness.


But I constantly worry about social situations because of people might be judging me. It's always been this way. I've always been shy and quiet aswell when surrounded by a lot of unfamiliar people, because I always feel awkward, and scared to do something embarrassing and then people thinking, ''that shy, quiet girl hasn't said a word to anyone and then she goes and does something daft!'' Also I worry that people keep noticing me just standing about quietly and awkwardly and think, ''who is that quiet girl over there? Blimey, she's the shyest person I've ever seen in my life, she literally hasn't said a word to anybody here.'' But I'm scared to make conversations with people in case I look stupid or something. So I prefer to just stay quiet.

I have a fear of rejection, humiliation, and being judged negatively. And all this leads to one problem: avoiding social situations. All the time now I'm scared that I'm going to suddenly get an invitation to a social event, and if I say ''yes'' I'd have to go and endure it, and if I say ''no'' I get criticised by other people, they say things like, ''oh you never want to go and socialise!'' So basically I feel obliged, because I do like to meet people but the trouble is I'm no good at it because I'm too shy. I've been at a new charity shop for 5 months now and I still find it hard to speak two words to people, just about have a one-to-one conversation with someone occasionally, usually just small talk. Otherwise, I'm very quiet. I'm just scared that if I tried to be something I'm not, I will probably act weird by coming out with stupid things, whereas staying shy but keeping up quite a confident expression actually works, and is easier for me. I actually blew it at the charity shop where I used to work, because I tried to be all confident, and it really didn't work. People were laughing at me there, I know it. I just sensed it. But at this new charity shop I'm at now, I don't sense any negative impressions from other people.

So, in short, I am scared to speak or even show my face in social situations in case I get judged negatively. Yes, I constantly worry about what people are thinking of me all the time, and I mean ALL THE TIME. It's ruining my life.




Im the same way, always paranoid people are silently judging me when Im out. Im constantly hyper aware of myself nowadays. How Im standing, my facial expressions, if Im making the right kind of eye contact etc, thinking that people will somehow know Im different. It makes me seem really jumpy and nervous. Every job Ive ever had Ive always ended up being known as "that quiet one". One time I even wandered in to the office I was working in and caught people talking about me, they had their backs to the door and didnt notice I had walked in, I was mortified, but I guess its human nature to talk about people you work with. Either way I quit that job not long after. I cant forget about stuff like that though and it makes me dread having to get another job even though I know I have to soon, cant stay at home forever.

Ive been invited to one of my old groups wedding in march and Im probably going to blow it off. Theyre all going to be there, I havent seen any of them in 5 years and Im scared of how much Ive changed since when I used to go around with them. I cant keep living like this though and have decided that Im going to make changes this year, hence me signing up to go to the london meet up next week, Though Im having second thoughts about that now. I wish I could just turn my stupid brain off for a few days and enjoy something for once lol.



dianthus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,138

17 Jan 2012, 6:20 pm

Growing up I was called "shy" a lot and it annoyed me because inside myself I never felt like I was shy. I was just quiet. Either I didn't have anything to say, or else I figured what I had to say might offend people so I kept quiet. Sometimes I just thought I wasn't supposed to talk, like when teachers told me to quit giving all the answers in class and let the other kids have a chance. It always seemed to me like people couldn't make their minds up, if I was quiet they wanted me to talk more and if I talked they wanted me to be quiet. Looking back I guess I couldn't understand they wanted me to act different in different situations, and I didn't understand "context" in relation to that. I just thought people couldn't be pleased no matter what.

I don't think of myself as shy. I do experience shyness in some situations, but I am not a characteristically shy person. I am not afraid to approach people I don't know, or initiate conversations with people. I don't feel particularly inhibited around people - to the contrary, I feel more of a lack of inhibition. I have constantly think about holding myself back from saying or doing things that others would probably find inappropriate. But I guess that is more a trait of ADHD than AS(?) I do get very nervous when I have to get up in front of a group to speak, but aren't most people like that? And no matter how nervous I feel, I actually relish the chance to get to speak to a group without being interrupted.

As long as I know *what* to say, I don't hold myself back from saying it (actually when I have something to say it can feel like nothing, come hell or high water, would hold me back from letting those words come out my mouth). The trouble is I often just don't know *what* to say. I don't know what is appropriate or what will make sense in the conversation. Or I just don't have anything to say at all, because I can't relate to what other people are talking about, or I can't understand what they are saying. And even when I do know what to say, my timing is off somehow. I never know when it's my turn to talk. I misread social situations, and other people misread me, I guess because they think I'm acting on the same assumptions they have, and I have no idea what those assumptions actually are. I only find out after there is a terrible misunderstanding, or someone finally tells me "oh I always thought you were _____" and I find out they had some really weird impression of me.

When it comes to anxiety about social situations, I mostly just dread having those sort of misunderstandings with people. I don't care much what people think of me, or if they judge me but I care what they will do based on their judgements of me. I feel anxiety wondering how they are going to react to me, because a lot of the times I don't have any idea. I can only predict based on past behavior. People are like vending machines, and some of them are really predictable, they always give the bag of chips when you push A6. But other people are like vending machines gone totally haywire...one day they give you chips when you push A6, and another day they give you a candy bar, and another day you just don't get anything out of them. So who knows. People are confusing as hell.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,439
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

17 Jan 2012, 10:37 pm

Kon wrote:
Am I wrong here? Am I off base? I think what I’m saying is fairly reasonable, and I wish people on the internet would stop calling themselves “Aspies” because they are introverts or experience a mild and very normal level of social awkwardness that would disappear if they stepped away from the computer for a few minutes. I’m actually glad Asperger’s is being dropped from the DSM-V and being merged into Autism Spectrum Disorder. This way, the people really afflicted with it will still qualify for an ASD diagnosis, and the shy, introverted nerds will no longer have an excuse for being a social shut-in and will actually maybe grow a pair and start…gasp! talking to girls…


I don't particularly appreciate the assumption people here call themselves aspies because they are introverts or experience a mild and very normal level of social awkwardness. Also, if someone wants to be a shy, introverted, nerd they have every right to and do not need to 'grow a pair.' and talk to girls if they don't want to.

So no I don't think you are being very reasonable at all. I also did read the rest of the post and did not really get much out of it other then social anxiety and AS have similarities according to some sources.


_________________
We won't go back.


dianthus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,138

17 Jan 2012, 10:59 pm

The OP was not posting his/her own thoughts, just quoting the article in the link provided.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,439
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

17 Jan 2012, 11:02 pm

dianthus wrote:
The OP was not posting his/her own thoughts, just quoting the article in the link provided.


oh I thought only part of it was an article... :oops: let me rephrase my earlier quote............I do not think the author of the article is being fair at all.


_________________
We won't go back.


Last edited by Sweetleaf on 19 Jan 2012, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ganondox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,775
Location: USA

18 Jan 2012, 12:32 am

AS is more than just shyness; shyness is only half of half of the criteria (assuming that shyness can somehow be used as one of the social issues criteria).


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html


Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

19 Jan 2012, 1:44 pm

The only reason why I don't like social situations is because I seem to fear people thinking I'm ''a bit strange''.


_________________
Female


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,439
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

19 Jan 2012, 1:49 pm

Ganondox wrote:
AS is more than just shyness; shyness is only half of half of the criteria (assuming that shyness can somehow be used as one of the social issues criteria).


Is it shyness though? I mean I know once someone gets me talking I am pretty open about most things and like to talk provided I am interested in the topic being discussed. Its just a matter of not knowing or being able to normally approach and interact with people. I mean I've always had an issue with walking up to someone I don't know and starting a conversation or even asking them something......its not so much social anxiety that causes this its more like I just cannot do it, it especially sucked in college and school because if i did not have a pencil and had never talked to the people sitting near me I could not even ask them for a pencil to borrow.........I think any social anxiety I have set in after being ridiculed for my awkwardness.


_________________
We won't go back.


Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

19 Jan 2012, 2:36 pm

What is the difference between a shy NT and a shy Aspie? Is it that a shy NT can still give off a friendly expression, and if they do speak it's kind of the right thing, whereas an Aspie might give off more of an aloof expression or might say something irrelevant or just not know how to start or carry on a conversation without coming across as rude or whatever (even though it's unintentional)?

My friend knew an NT who was shy, and when they were going around asking for job vacancies in shops, the shy person kept on holding back and wouldn't go in and ask, and she just asked my friend to ask for her.

But then I wonder, what's the point if NTs being shy if they know that when they do open their mouth they're always going to say the right thing and give off the right impression? Or do all NTs necessarily do everything right? Is being NT really as good as it's cracked up to be? Or do shy NTs have the same social awkwardness as mild Aspies do, but obviously not all the rest traits that come with AS?

I can't seem to work it out.


_________________
Female


Catamount
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 531

19 Jan 2012, 2:50 pm

From my very earliest years, I was labelled as shy and a little quirky and in the pre-Aspergers world, I just kind of accepted it as part of my personality. But as I got older and began to become more in tune with all sorts of oddball sensory problems, I realized there was something more going on although I didn't necessarily connect the two. Once I began to become educated on Aspergers just a couple of years ago and saw I well I fit into the template, it soon became obvious to me. These days, nothing really annoys me more than being called shy. Even though I don't publicize my AS, I really just want to scream out that I'm not shy, I'm autistic. But getting back to the OP, I don't really like to speculate on whether others are on the spectrum ... maybe their social issues are more of a big deal to them than their sensory issues so they choose to focus on those when they post here.



theaspiemusician
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Posts: 384
Location: The Cosmos

19 Jan 2012, 7:03 pm

Kon wrote:
Any opinions?

Shyness and AS: similarities and differences?

A while back, an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal called Asperger’s disorder “a pompous label for shyness”. While perhaps going a bit far, I think it highlights a point: there are a number of similarities between people with (mild) Asperger’s and people with shyness/social anxiety. While the standard issue answer to this question is, “Aspergers don’t know how to interact, shy people do but are freaked out”, one should consider that lack of social skills is widely reported in the literature on social anxiety and avoidant personality disorder. Many shy people withdraw for so many years that they lose the opportunity to develop social skills. Thus, they can’t maintain a conversation, awkward silences, may be socially immature and underdeveloped, be withdrawn…just like people with Asperger’s disorder.

Except in extreme cases, where the person in question is literally obsessed with some archaic topic, talks at people endlessly about said topic, has sensory issues, takes everything extremely literally and can not make generalizations, I would say social phobia/AvPD is almost always the more appropriate diagnosis. My feeling is a lot of people these days in the Social Phobia/Avoidant ballpark are misdiagnosed as Asperger’s because it is a “trendy” diagnosis and the outward appearance can be so similar. I am especially skeptical about those online who claim to have Asperger’s yet seldom ever mention any other symptom than the usual “I’m XX years old and never had a girlfriend.” To me, that’s classic Avoidant Personality, not Asperger’s, except if there are fairly clear-cut autistic traits accompanying it.

Am I wrong here? Am I off base? I think what I’m saying is fairly reasonable, and I wish people on the internet would stop calling themselves “Aspies” because they are introverts or experience a mild and very normal level of social awkwardness that would disappear if they stepped away from the computer for a few minutes. I’m actually glad Asperger’s is being dropped from the DSM-V and being merged into Autism Spectrum Disorder. This way, the people really afflicted with it will still qualify for an ASD diagnosis, and the shy, introverted nerds will no longer have an excuse for being a social shut-in and will actually maybe grow a pair and start…gasp! talking to girls…

http://www.goanxiety.info/archives/shyn ... ences.html

That's just rude. Beyond rude. That's just.... I have no idea how to describe how wrong you are. Sure, there ARE people who get misdiagnosed, but these aren't the shy nerds you speak of. The ones who commonly get misdiagnosed are usually very selfish and rude on purpose, like this one guy at my school. I'm defidentally the shy nerd type. I do like talking to people on the computer, but my lack of some social skills (I'm not lacking in ALL) actually got me friends AND a date IN REAL LIFE. The only friends I talk to on the computer most of the time live out of state, go to a different school or I want to be more private about conversations. I'm DEFIDENTALLY not the classic Aspie 24/7, though I act like it sometimes. I hate how Asperger's is going to merge because people who don't understand about Autism will get the wrong impression about me.


_________________
Empathy Quotient Test Score: 63
Hmmm...interesting. Shows what you know about Aspies, doesn't it rofl?

"One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small but the pills that mother gives you don't do anything at all"


1000Knives
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,036
Location: CT, USA

19 Jan 2012, 8:56 pm

Well, my problem is I'm not shy, I go out and do quite a lot, I guess. I'm kinda bad with girls, but not with really anyone else.

As far as my diagnosis goes, it's officially NVLD. Nonverbal Learning Disorder. I like it better than an AS diagnosis, for basically the reasons you stated. The NVLD diagnosis is neurological in nature, it's an IQ gap and right brain deficiency. My verbal IQ is 130+, but my nonverbal is only about 80. I didn't get diagnosed until almost 18, and I wasn't seeking a diagnosis, the DX was actually ordered for me. That, and after I got my diagnosis, I was in denial about it until I was 20, I figured it was BS like most psychological stuff was, and also they gave me a schizoid/schizoaffective DX, however the people they refered me to for treatment said that diagnosis was stupid to give someone who's 17, so I doubted the whole diagnosis. But later on, did some reading about NVLD, reran the IQ tests on my own, and it all added up. The people who originally diagnosed me NVLD said I was basically almost Aspergers, but not quite, since they said my special interests weren't too severe (when in fact the rest of my family would disagree) but again, for that diagnosis process, I tried to act as normal as possible, since I didn't wanna get diagnosed with anything. But, my diagnosis has neurological backing for sure.

I really don't like this whole Aspergers/ASD can of worms to be honest, as it's all part of the inexact subjective subject known as psychology, which I pretty much don't like much at all. My NVLD is very easy for me to grasp, as it's a scientifically explainable and quantifiable diagnosis. Then again, one of the therapists I talked to said my reasoning for that is probably because I'm a very black and white thinker because of my NVLD/Aspergers.

But really, on this site, one of my gripes is that it seems people who simply seem to be "nerds" sorta wanna jump on the Aspergers bandwagon, and yeah... As far as how I feel about it, well, I'm pretty terrible at identifying my own feelings, haha, but it more or less doesn't matter. The ratio of fake Aspergers to real Aspergers doesn't matter to me, because my life still has to go on, whether I have "Aspergers" or not. When I told my friend with real diagnosed Aspergers about my NVLD diagnosis, he told me "Stuff like that is only good for introspection." Which is more or less true, nobody's gonna help me, nobody's gonna hold my hand, I'm the one who must do everything for me. I do like knowing about my NVLD, as it's like, the truth, but in some ways I wish I could go back to my blissful ignorance about it, and not have it to think about. At the same time, I've figured out I can alleviate a lot of my problems by doing simple things, ie, athletics "works out" my right brain, too, so that side of my brain works better in other things.

Oh well, rambly thing here.



lostmyself
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 4 Dec 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 333

20 Jan 2012, 8:02 am

I agree AS diagnosis is quite complicated and most psychiatrists don't do their part and label everyone and anyone something or the other. Its quite easy to convince some psychiatrists while others won't budge.

But the attitude the author has towards social anxiety or introversion is annoying. I mean he thinks socializing is a piece of cake. He has no idea what being mute out of anxiety is like. He has no idea what actual anxiety can cause. It is not the hardest thing to go and talk to people but anxiety also causes overloads and meltdowns I believe.

Now going back to AS I think it is being differently wired in the brain that makes people feel different or think different. Anxiety is a condition anyone on or not on the spectrum can develop. For AS to be diagnosed correctly I believe it has to be a bit severe. I don't know if mild AS exists or doesn't.