Lying

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How do you deal with a child who is lying? Constantly (lately). It's a new thing. It started off small but now he's being quite creative with his stories. He'll call his aunt and make up a complete story about something without any intentions of telling her the truth. When he gets "caught" he'll tell me he was only kidding. Either it's over something he was "kidding" about or over something tangible he wanted to have .. It's becoming a big problem!

Make sure the consequences for lying are worse than the consequences for doing something bad but telling the truth about it.

Can you clarify: is he

1) lying in order to cover up doing something he shouldn't have done

or

2) simply telling a story for the sake of getting attention

psychohist: I read somewhere it's not a good idea to give consequences for lying because it will actually increase the behaviour because they learn to lie as a way of delaying that consequence.

Roman: I'd say both. He's lying to cover up something he shouldn't have done.. usually over something he wanted but wasn't allowed to have. He's also telling fibs to unsuspecting people because he thinks they'll believe him. For example, he told a bunch of primary kids that he was in highschool. Or he told his aunt that we're having to move and gave a detailed reason why. Completely false. I think he gets a rise out of it that they "believe" him.. but they come to me instead.

If that's the way they put it, they worded it poorly.

What it's bad to do is to have negative consequences for admitting to lying. Once the kid admits to a lie, punishment will cause the kid to think it's a bad idea to admit the truth, rather than causing him to think it's a bad idea to lie.

The same reasoning applies to negative consequences for any bad act, though. Once the kid admits to doing something bad, punishment will cause the kid to think it's a bad idea to admit to doing bad things, and to lie about them instead.

I remember I had a brief period as a teenager during which I made up stories and tried to make people believe them. Very similar to what you're saying about your son. I barely ever lied before then or after. Lying (or being lied to) doesn't go well together with an autistic mind. I think it's a phase, nothing to worry about, your son is experimenting and sooner rather than later his experiment will be over.

Have you told him the story of the boy who cried wolf?

You need to convey to him somehow that people usually eventually get caught in their lies and then no one trusts them.

I believe this is pretty much exactly what Tony Atwood says he has observed in kids with AS. They don't really understand lying especially the white lies that most NTs are pretty comfortable with. They see other people doing it so they try it out. Often they are bad at it. He says the kids he observed usually grew out of it pretty quickly.

Every kids tests this out every once in a while. A social story worked well for my kiddo, explaining why it is important to tell the truth and what can happen when you choose not to.

Yes ... and you can actually teach that principle to him by watching for an opportunity to just "not believe" him when you know for sure he is *not* lying ... and then just silently let him "hurt" for bit -- no lectures -- just like that little boy who experienced the pain of having just lost the confidence once entrusted to him.

Thanks everyone. We have talked about the Boy Who Cried Wolf and the consequences of it .. people not believing him anymore. I've tried a few different things but I think what I need to do now is let it be. I may be drawing too much attention to it. I think I'm just going to redirect him, or have other people redirect him when they think he's telling a fib. If he gets caught doing something he shouldn't be doing, he'll have to learn from natural consequences.

I forgot how old he is - age has a lot to do with the reasoning behind lying and, so, gets factored in. It sounds a bit like your son may be in a version of a fantasy stage, believing that if he says it is so, it may almost be the same as making it so. Which is a light touch situation; real life teaches them pretty quickly how that can tangle at which point they simply stop.

My son is 10 years old. He's aware he's not telling the truth. He told my mom we all took a trip to Hawaii for our Spring Break. She asked him questions and he went on and on about it. It wasn't until she spoke with me that she found out we hadn't gone. I don't like that. The story about having to move, he told my sister we were pretty stressed out because we didn't know where we were going to live. It concerned her because she wasn't sure at that point if it was true .. thinking maybe it was.

As for the other issues, telling his daycare my bank was robbed to get out of paying $2 he owed (without me knowing) was a bit deeper than a typical kid thing .. no? The daycare supervisor seemed to think so. He told me he said that because he didn't know what to tell her. He knew I wouldn't have approved of him buying something when he didn't have the money. The staff should not have allowed him to "pay later"..

I did something that many parents find reprehensible... when my daughter was 3 or so, we told her that everytime she lied, her tongue turned blue. That was why we always knew if she was lying or not. (Poor thing, she was really bad at it...) Anyhow, that led to several interesting turn of events. When she'd fib, I'd look at her and say 'stick your tongue out!" She'd immediately clasp her hand over her mouth when she was lying OR defiantly stick her tongue out if she was being truthful.

Many, many crunchy parents despise me for perpetrating this lie on my child - along with Santa, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy. My daughter is now going on 9 and we finally let her off the hook. We haven't asked her to show her tongue in years but she still insists we check it when we think she's stretching the truth. She was a bit peeved at me but she almost instantly understood that we taught her that as a baby so she would learn to not lie. She was good with that explanation although she did wish I had let her in on that secret sooner.

This worked for our family and my daughter's personality. I wouldn't recommend it but we did have fun with it and didn't damage our daughter's trust in us as many crunchy moms predicted.

The allegory of 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf' completely goes over my daughter's head even with the explanation. She fixates on the poor sheep...

Have you taken the time to explain to him when lying is a good idea vs. a bad idea?

I know, I know, lying is horrible, punish the behavior, etc. But lets be real. People lie often, very often. And it isn't a bad thing. For example:

Question: Did you like dinner?
Truthful Answer: No, I thought it was pretty badly cooked.
Tactful Lie: O, it was nice. Thanks for cooking.

Question: Do you want to come to my play?
Truthful Answer: No, I don't like plays, and I think yours will probably be boring.
Tactful Lie: I'm sorry, I cant. I have an appointment that day.

Question: Why weren't you on time?
Truthful Answer: Because I don't value the event, and I am only coming because I have to, not because I want to.
Tactful Lie: There was a accident on the road, and I was stuck in traffic.

I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, but I think you get the point. Lying is a part of standard communication protocol. Not lying causes more problems then lying does. It is a great way to spare somebodies' feelings, and it is also a great way to avoid unnecessary complications. Training your child not to lie is only going to confuse them because I can assure you that you lie OFTEN. You may not think of it as lying, but it is. And if you tell your children not to do something that you do often, then your going to be sending a very mixed message.

Your probably better off explaining which lies are good ideas, and which lies are bad ideas, and why. For example, lying about his plans to somebody else may work out well if it gets him out of useless events he doesn't want to attend. And it is also a common reason to lie which won't get him in any serious trouble if caught (unless the person who catches him is one of those people more in asserting their superiority complex then being reasonable). Conversely, lying about something in order to get free stuff is pretty much the same as stealing, which isn't a good idea, and can result in very angry reprisal.

I know it is more difficult to explain when you should and shouldn't lie, but while it may take more time, you'll get better results then simply saying, "stop lying."

Lol, I like that approach. Fairly effective way of dealing with lying when your child isn't old enough to learn when lying is appropriate.