Is it true some aspies are homicidal?

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leejosepho
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22 May 2011, 8:04 pm

Just yesterday I overheard something on TV about AS/HFA not being accepted as part of any plea in some kind of homicide case, but I do not know whether that story was about something current or something now past.


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22 May 2011, 8:14 pm

There are neurotypical people that kill. AS has nothing to do with it. There are crazy people who have AS and there are neurotypical people who are crazy. People don't know for sure if Hitler had AS. I think it was more likely that he had a personality disorder.


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22 May 2011, 8:34 pm

swbluto wrote:
Is this why most people shun those with aspergers? Because some of them are going to turn into cold-blooded killers or are the "cold blooded killer" types?


A very small percentage of people with Aspergers turn to violence. But the phrase "some of them are going to turn into cold-blooded killers" could equally be applied to NTs, or pretty much any group you can think of. People vary in many ways. People from every group turn into killers. That does not in any way justify suggesting a link between homicide and that group. Should we avoid NTs because some of them become killers? The idea is neither more nor less absurd than shunning those with Aspergers for that reason.

Those who have committed murder are killers, whether hot or cold blooded. :wink: Those who express an interest in killing others are, presumably, more likely to turn into killers than others who don't. Other than those two obvious groups, I don't think there is any group of which it can justifiably be said they are likely to turn into killers. We might as well shun all children - after all, some kids grow up to be killers... heck, a few of them kill while they're still kids.

Sorry, but anyone who falls for that type of reasoning just isn't doing much in the way of thinking.


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littlelily613
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22 May 2011, 8:38 pm

I think that is pathetic (not your question, but his generalization)! Anyone can become homocidal. It is not because of there status as AS or NT. Some conditions would make people more susceptible to murder. Autism is not one of them.



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22 May 2011, 11:29 pm

I am currently majoring in Criminal Justice. One of my classes touched on the subject of autistics individuals committing crimes. Statistically, people with conditions such as autism are no more or less likely to commit crimes of any type than an NT.



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23 May 2011, 3:58 am

Humans are homicidal. Case closed. NT, Aspie, Black, White, Straight, Gay, WE ARE ALL homicidal. Its in our nature.



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23 May 2011, 4:08 am

ScientistOfSound wrote:
Humans are homicidal. Case closed. NT, Aspie, Black, White, Straight, Gay, WE ARE ALL homicidal. Its in our nature.


I don't think most of us kill our neighbors, so I wouldn't say "we are all homicidal" or that it's in our nature.

It's true that people from any demographic can kill, although the motivations (not dependent on demographic) can vary from self-defense to revenge to hatred to, well, there's Dahmer, I guess.



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23 May 2011, 4:18 am

Verdandi wrote:
ScientistOfSound wrote:
Humans are homicidal. Case closed. NT, Aspie, Black, White, Straight, Gay, WE ARE ALL homicidal. Its in our nature.


I don't think most of us kill our neighbors, so I wouldn't say "we are all homicidal" or that it's in our nature.

It's true that people from any demographic can kill, although the motivations (not dependent on demographic) can vary from self-defense to revenge to hatred to, well, there's Dahmer, I guess.


What I'm trying to say is, theres potential in everybody to be homicidal, unfortunately :|
I'm a bit of a misanthrope so I don't really have that much trust/faith in humanity at all :(



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23 May 2011, 4:41 am

I believe people with ASD's tend to be too honest, or that most have an interest in something that doesn't involve homicide. Do you ever need to kill someone to learn about star systems or bus schedules or games? I think there is also the matter of logic, they see no reason to kill another person. I think the Wikipedia page mentions that a vast majority of people with ASD's that do commit serious crime usually have other psychiatric conditions too.

Saying that we can use simple logic.

Some people are homicidal. People with an ASD are people. Therefore some people with ASD's are homicidal.



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23 May 2011, 5:00 am

ScientistOfSound wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
ScientistOfSound wrote:
Humans are homicidal. Case closed. NT, Aspie, Black, White, Straight, Gay, WE ARE ALL homicidal. Its in our nature.


I don't think most of us kill our neighbors, so I wouldn't say "we are all homicidal" or that it's in our nature.

It's true that people from any demographic can kill, although the motivations (not dependent on demographic) can vary from self-defense to revenge to hatred to, well, there's Dahmer, I guess.


What I'm trying to say is, theres potential in everybody to be homicidal, unfortunately :|
I'm a bit of a misanthrope so I don't really have that much trust/faith in humanity at all :(


Okay, that makes more sense to me. I guess I took you a bit literally.



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23 May 2011, 5:07 am

swbluto wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
1) Jared Lee Loughner does not have Asperger's. His use of language, idiosyncratic beliefs, and flat affect is more indicative of schizophrenia, if anything.


There's significant overlap between aspergers and schizophrenia, so if he had any "schizophrenic" traits, he would've also had "half aspergers" type of traits. However, I caught some of his videos before he went onto his deadly rampage, and I found no evidence of schizophrenic traits. Sure, he might have had unusual beliefs, but his beliefs were directly derived from the sovereign citizens political beliefs so there was nothing "hallucinatory", "imaginary" or "paranoid" about it.


Ive just been looking at photos of him and I dont get an aspie feeling from him. And I have met lots of aspies. I would say schizophrenia is more likely.

And autism and schizophrenia are two different things.


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zen_mistress
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23 May 2011, 5:10 am

And by the way, I agree that Cho could be on the spectrum, but there was something really wrong with him too, he looks to be very mentally disturbed on top of the AS.


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b9
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23 May 2011, 5:40 am

SirLogiC wrote:
Saying that we can use simple logic.

Some people are homicidal. People with an ASD are people. Therefore some people with ASD's are homicidal.


i am sorry but that is incorrect logic.



leejosepho
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23 May 2011, 6:04 am

b9 wrote:
SirLogiC wrote:
Saying that we can use simple logic.

Some people are homicidal. People with an ASD are people. Therefore some people with ASD's are homicidal.

i am sorry but that is incorrect logic.

Agreed, and maybe this simple correction will work ...

"Some people are homicidal.
"People with an ASD are people.
"Therefore [it is not impossible for] people with ASDs [to be] homicidal."


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izzeme
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23 May 2011, 6:19 am

i do think that such effects are possible; as a last-wall crossed final emotional breakdown.
i myself am passive and anti-violence, but there are times that you'd better not be near me if you dont wish to get hurt; i usually manage to channel my anger into inanimate, prefereably indestructible, objects like tables and walls, but if a living being gets too close...

still, i wont kill others, and it's very unlikely that i would even break a bone, but it does not feel illogical for others to go the distance, for most of these stories i hear i do indeed feel the pain and the workup involved.



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23 May 2011, 6:49 am

swbluto wrote:
Callista wrote:
Yes, some Aspies are homicidal. But the percentage of Aspies who are homicidal is lower than the percentage of NTs who are homicidal.


Hmmm... I don't know about that. A significantly greater percentage of aspies are continuously bullied than NTs, so I'd imagine that'd push the homicidal rate up higher.

Quote:
Aspies are statistically less violent than NTs, mostly because violence is a social activity and we tend to be introverts.


Sources? ...And... Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, was introverted. In fact, the introverted creepy killer type is such a well-known archetype, like with those Columbine killers.
This is a pretty classic example of the availability bias. Because you can easily think of examples of killers suspected to be autistic, you think that they are common. This is not, in fact, the case.

Click on the link, scroll down to the quote and click on the links to the studies:

Autism and Murder

Quote:
In this study, the authors looked at rates of criminality amongst those with a Pervasive Developmental Disability (subgrouped to ‘childhood autism’, atypical autism and AS) . In the childhood autism group (which corresponds to severe/kanners/etc) 0.9% had a conviction as adults. In the control group, the rate was 18.9%. For atypical autism the conviction rate was 8.1%. The control group was 14.7%. For AS, the rate was 18.4% and the control group was 19.6%.

So, in each subgroup of PDD the authors looked at, the rate of criminal conviction was lower than controls. For the type of autism that Doherty and AoA are talking about less than 1% had a conviction compared to 18.9%. I think its clear that if this paper is accurate then we’re hardly going to be overrun with autistic killers.


Oh, and the "creepy introverted killer" stereotype? Is a stereotype with no basis in reality. Killers tend to be extroverts about 75% of the time, just like the general population.


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