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Tequila
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04 Jun 2011, 8:12 am

How would you prove a case on such little evidence? No force used, marks, cuts, that sort of thing, the girl invited or went back to his place willingly, one of them or both were heavily intoxicated, there wasn't a relationship of authority, etc.

YippySkippy wrote:
Thank you for exemplifying my point, Tequila. :lol:


The other problem with this is that there is very little will to punish those women that have been proven of lying about such a serious crime. The guy gets his reputation ruined for life; she might get six months in prison.



YourMother
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04 Jun 2011, 8:16 am

YippySkippy wrote:
"Date rape" is viewed much more harshly in the States than in Europe.
In Europe, the conviction rate is almost zero, and both men and women will blame the victim and suggest she was "asking for it".



Hmm...not sure...http://www.facebook.com/slutwalkuk



thewrll
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04 Jun 2011, 8:22 am

I am talking about the victims not the actual crime. I dont differentiate between ages.



backagain
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04 Jun 2011, 8:27 am

I don't know that child rape is considered the most terrible thing. It is high on the list of terrible things. As far as "rape being rape", that is BS. That's a little like saying that There are also some situations of child rape that are worse than others. As in most assaults there are so many psychological issues to overcome, often it is an acquaintance, trust betrayed etc. . Also, a child who has been molested is more likely to be victimized, so it is as if the crime is repeated. I was molested as a small child, bit secret in my family, was beaten and date raped at 18 and for many years had some underlying belief that somehow I was a target because I was screwed up. In fact have had more than one abusive personal relationship. Part of it come from guilt, from feeling responsible somehow for the things that happened.
Please don't think I am complaining, just stating facts. I am actually very grateful for everything I have gone through in this life, I know that if one thing had been different, everything might have been different and ended up with three great kids and in many ways an adventuresome life. That is not saying that the suffering of children at the hands of another is an ok thing.



YourMother
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04 Jun 2011, 8:36 am

backagain wrote:
As far as "rape being rape", that is BS. That's a little like saying that There are also some situations of child rape that are worse than others.


Sorry, could you rephrase that, I don't quite understand... :P



psychohist
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04 Jun 2011, 8:49 am

YourMother wrote:
psychohist wrote:
An adult having sex with a willing 17 year old is rape...

WHAT!! !?!?!?! erm...I'm not sure about that one...unless the adult is not consenting, of course.

That's how it works in the U.S., and I believe the UK, at least. Rape is defined as sex without consent; a minor cannot legally consent; therefore any sex with a minor is by definition rape.



YourMother
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04 Jun 2011, 8:59 am

psychohist wrote:
YourMother wrote:
psychohist wrote:
An adult having sex with a willing 17 year old is rape...

WHAT!! !?!?!?! erm...I'm not sure about that one...unless the adult is not consenting, of course.

That's how it works in the U.S., and I believe the UK, at least. Rape is defined as sex without consent; a minor cannot legally consent; therefore any sex with a minor is by definition rape.


Wow. That's pretty stupid. In that case, I'd rather stick to the actual MEANING of the word "rape" than its legal definition...



ephestia
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04 Jun 2011, 9:00 am

de momento



Last edited by ephestia on 05 Jun 2011, 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Tequila
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04 Jun 2011, 9:19 am

psychohist wrote:
therefore any sex with a minor is by definition rape.


Not necessarily - in UK law there is such a concept as underage sex, whereby if you sleep with someone is 14 or 15 they receive a less-stronger sentence than if the person is 13 or under - a statutory rape, if you like. If both partners are close in ages, people almost always turn a blind eye to it but if it's an adult having sex with a 14-year-old, people take a much dimmer view.

An adult having sex with someone 13 or under is considered rape.



thewrll
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04 Jun 2011, 9:36 am

Also in the us unless you are a teacher 17 is legal age.



JakobVirgil
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04 Jun 2011, 10:34 am

thewrll wrote:
Also in the us unless you are a teacher 17 is legal age.

depends on the state
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littlerubberjohnny
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04 Jun 2011, 2:06 pm

Child rape can be worse than adult rape, as they aren't physically developed enough to be used like that. Very young children can die from being raped, are seriously injured and girls often end up infertile.
Rape of an adult is less likely to cause serious injuries, obviouly it depends on the force.
Also, children are even less emotional equiped to deal with such abuse (not that anyone is equipped to deal with it).

As for date rape, some people on this topic clearly think that the women was asking for it. Bear in mind in the UK 94% of alleged rapists are not convicted, this is clearly the main problem, not women lying. If a drunk woman collapses (or is semi concious) in the presence of men, and they decide to "have sex" with her because she was coming on to them before, that's rape. rape is always rape and a man should know better than to take advantage of a drunk woman.

It should be illegal to have sex with a drunk woman (or man) because they aren't capable of giving informed consent. It's the same reason why it's statutory rape to have sex with someone under 13, because although the victim may genuinely be roused and give consent, they aren't psychlogically capable of undertanding the emotional consequences. Just like drunk people.


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WilliamWDelaney
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04 Jun 2011, 3:32 pm

Actually, I attended school with a guy who was convicted of "statutory rape" for having sexual relations with a girl a handful of months younger than himself. Ruined his life, set back his education, left him bitter at the world, but the parents of the girl he'd been dating got their ill-gotten revenge on him. I hope they get rabies.

Anyway, the harm done in "date rape" is done mostly by the society in which the victims live, which is to look upon the "victim" with scorn or condescending pity. The harm stems directly from the disempowerment of women, and it could be eliminated by simply teaching women that sex, to seek or reject, is their right. Besides, part of what leads to date rape is that men learn from experience that there are many women who privately desire sexual relations but try to reject their advances out of fear of social scorn, so reacting to the "sexual woman" with shunning and social scorn does nothing except create for men a litany of sexual partners who "play coquettish" with them and then react with gratitude. Doing away with this trend would instill a sense that, when a woman says "no," she means to piss off, and the only way to do this is to make sure that, when women want to say "yes," they say "yes" and, when they say "no," they mean "hell no." That would also clear up a lot of potential headaches for honest men out there who don't ask for much out of life except a simple, straight answer, so sexually empowered women is good for everybody involved.



Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on 04 Jun 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donnie_darko
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04 Jun 2011, 3:44 pm

mox wrote:
Trying to convince her happier times are ahead makes you feel better, but doesn't help her - not at this moment. That comes later.

I suggest a site like rainn.org for you to get more information for yourself and for her.


Thank you. I'm just really worried about her.



PLA
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05 Jun 2011, 11:55 am

York wrote:
We can't abide crimes of any sort really, can we, Zach? A crime is a crime. There is no "big" and "small". Crimes always have a "criminal" and a "victim". No victim will ever welcome a crime, so there is no difference in size.



Edit: @ donnie_darko
First order of business is to eliminate the situation. Then you'll need to be there and if feasible encourage her to make requests of you. Be prepared to intuit when to sit down and shut up.

And above all, take advice cautiously.


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