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Mack27
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09 Aug 2011, 4:40 pm

Online dating with a woman has only ended four ways for me.

Half the time I get the silent treatment, no responses to emails or texts after the first date. This was almost every date for the first couple months.

Once I barely escaped a predatory, controlling, crazy lady after a several months long relationship.

Twice I had no interest in seeing the woman again and tried to tell her so as politely as I could.

Nearly half the time I get the following or some variation thereof: "You are a very nice, honest and sweet person, and I think you are super cute. But somehow, I am not feeling a spark.
I think we both should probably just keep on with our search. I wish you good luck finding someone. And thanks for hanging out with me." This is what's happening now most often, it happened the last 3 dates I had over the past 2 weeks. So I think I'm improving, I just have to start sparking somehow.



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09 Aug 2011, 5:02 pm

I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.


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AsteroidNap
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11 Aug 2011, 12:34 pm

Moog wrote:
I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.


Exactly. The more I work on this, the more I realize it's a numbers game really. Compared to NTs, I think we have a far greater number of people to go through before we find someone, but rather than look at this as a detriment, I choose to look at this as a bonus! It means I get to meet a lot more people, many of whom are interesting in their own right whether we make a connection or not.



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11 Aug 2011, 1:11 pm

Mack27 wrote:
Online dating with a woman has only ended four ways for me.


Exactly what do you expect from these dates? I'm not being flip ... I'm serious ... what is it you expect? If you're expecting to find your soulmate, for instance, it's a numbers game. It's a numbers game for everyone, not just us. Sure, it's possible you could find the perfect woman within the first week, but the odds are against it.

So why not alter your expectations, even if you don't alter your ultimate goals? Just be happy with a pleasant evening. That's all. If it goes beyond that, well then, great. But don't expect it. This takes a lot of the pressure off of both of you, and you'll have a lot better time.

And regarding the "no spark" emails you say you're getting ... they may be disappointing, but at least they're polite and honest. They're a lot better than being ignored, which is rude and childish.



I_am_Kira
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11 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm

I don't quite understand the whole 'spark' thing either. There was once a girl whom I sat next to in an AP class for the entire school year. I almost never approach girls because I'm very shy, but this one I was assigned to sit next to. Well, being partners for the entire year, we talked everyday and I found that we had almost everything in common (not an exaggeration). Everything from our favourite types of tea, our favourite anime characters, to our personalities and life experiences. We even had the same favourite Pokémon for crying out loud. We also had very similar views on love and what we wanted out of a significant other. I won't waste time and space explaining every little similarity, but she was as similar to me as an NT could get. It takes a long time for me to develope feelings for others (and trust), but, by the end of the year, I realized that I loved her. When I finally worked up the courage to tell her, she rejected me. When I asked why, all she said was, "I don't feel a spark." Really? What was that supposed to mean? I mean, we had EVERYTHING in common. EVERYTHING! As an Aspie, I couldn't wrap my mind around it. It was a completely illogical response. I feel in love with her because she fit my really strict criteria perfectly. She was everything I wanted. And yet, despite all our similarities, I was nothing she wanted. As expected, I was completely short-circuited by this and had several horrible meltdowns. To make matters worse, she instead kept going for guys who abused her and used her, and it destroyed me to have to bear witness to it all. I HATED seeing her get hurt. I HATED seeing her sad and upset. For the next entire year, I did everything I could to initiate this so-called 'spark'. I made her jewery, bought her expensive chocolates, wrote her long, sincere love letters, and lots more, and yet the douch-bags who got her affections did NONE of that. I won't go into it, but the problems escalated and it ended very badly. I HATE this 'spark' thing, whatever it is. It's totally irrational. If you've seen, He's Just Not That Into You, then you should remember the scene in the restaurant where what's-his-name says to Geegee (Idk how to spell it) that men created the spark so that men could use and abuse women by tricking them into there being this magical 'spark' between them. And I believe he's right. This 'spark' allowed those low-lives to steal her away from me and treat her like crap, while sparkless me did everything in my power to make her feel special, appreciated, and loved. I've internalized that now, no matter how hard I try with girls, no one will want me because, "There's no spark". I'm just not the heart-throb type and I never will be. Because of this damn 'spark', I will die a lonely, bitter, old man.



techstepgenr8tion
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11 Aug 2011, 10:08 pm

Moog wrote:
I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.

This.

Its hard out there, you'll meet all kinds as well, some great, some not so great. The hardest are the times where you're dating someone who you have all the respect in the world for, might even feel like she's out of your league in certain ways but you still end up being the twit because the spark just isn't happening - its happened more times than I care to admit and its part of why I'm hesitant to go out and chase.

I can't give you a roadmap, lol I can't say I even have one for myself. I guess at this point I'm fine either way - permanently single, married, or even largely single with a few long term relationships along the way (which at 31 I haven't even experienced one IRL over a month yet!). Regardless - given a crap world and crap conditions I want the best outcome for all involved, and if being single forever after is a better alternative than a bad relationship (given 1000x over) - if its the best alternative I have then its the best alternative I have.


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hans66
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12 Aug 2011, 12:53 am

I think the spark can be defined as physical or sexual attraction. I think that is what Kyra's girl seem to be missing.

By me it seemed to be the other way around. A girl told about me (by means of a friend) that I was very attractice sexually, but I was a ret*d in her eyes. Then the assertion I was attractive, is likely fake.



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12 Aug 2011, 12:59 am

I don't really get the "spark" concept, either.

It seems to be, bluntly "We're perfect for each other/you're really attractive/we have a lot in common, but I don't wanna date you cause there's not enough intangible quality".

:scratch:


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12 Aug 2011, 3:00 am

"no spark" = they don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you the real reason



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Aug 2011, 6:44 am

mcg wrote:
"no spark" = they don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you the real reason

You have to be careful. You could find yourself not attracted to someone but its not because their ugly - they could be pretty decent on most people's looks scales but not a type of look that does anything for you, or body language and general nonverbal style may not be compatible. To try to explain any of that honesty it seems like the more words offered the more people tend to believe you're blowing smoke and not telling them the 'real' truth. If you do like and respect them a lot otherwise why get yourself and them bogged down in that.


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12 Aug 2011, 9:52 am

Moog wrote:
I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.


Well, yes and no. Like the Green Day lyric, "You can't go forcing something, if it's just not right." But, on the other hand, if something is of value to you, it should be worth putting forth a little effort to get it. And, if meeting someone you'll be happy with is important to you, it's no different.

Some people are incompatible with each other, period. Others are slow starters. I'm not sure if it comes from TV or fairy tales or what, but so many people seem to have this notion that the moment you meet 'The One,' you'll know, sparks will fly and everything else will magically fall into place. Call me cynical, but I don't think anything important or valuable in my life will ever be that easy, especially in the realm of interpersonal relationships.

In retrospect, the best relationships I've had were ones where we started out with some mutual respect, shared outlooks and some basic attraction. The spark then grew and evolved over time. I've also met some people I was immediately attracted to, but it would have been a disaster because we were just too different in 'big picture things,' including what we were looking for in a relationship in the first place. An initial spark is great, but no guarantee, in my book.

Another factor is that people with Asperger's can sometimes kill a spark pretty quickly, too. It was hard to admit this to myself, but post-diagnosis, I looked back and realized how often I'd misread cues and inadvertently given out the wrong signals, just because I was lacking in self-awareness. It's honestly kind of embarassing and depressing to look back and assume responsibility for my part in wrecking situations that had shown promise. To an extent, we have limited control in learning to read others, learning how to demonstrate facial expressions and body language that reflect what we are thinking or feeling, etc, but the more we can learn and grow in this area, the better odds we'll have of finding and keeping who we're looking for. It's not fair we have to work harder than most others in this area, but it is what it is.

I'm sorry for this analogy and I hope it doesn't make anyone gag, but I think the whole spark thing is kind of like growing a garden. There are some external factors, like weather (ie, life circumstances, timing, etc), that are beyond your control. If you want to have the best chances of success, all you can do is try to create the most fertile ground possible and, when something starts growing that shows promise, tend it as best you can. But, don't expect to be able to just sit back and let it all happen on its own or you'll probably end up with a patch full of weeds. There is a lot of luck involved, but you can work at things to stack the deck a little more in your favor.



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12 Aug 2011, 11:26 am

blueroses wrote:
Moog wrote:
I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.


Well, yes and no. Like the Green Day lyric, "You can't go forcing something, if it's just not right." But, on the other hand, if something is of value to you, it should be worth putting forth a little effort to get it. And, if meeting someone you'll be happy with is important to you, it's no different.


Sorry, I tend to assume such things go without saying.

Even if you do meet someone you spark with, you need to act.

Quote:
Some people are incompatible with each other, period. Others are slow starters. I'm not sure if it comes from TV or fairy tales or what, but so many people seem to have this notion that the moment you meet 'The One,' you'll know, sparks will fly and everything else will magically fall into place. Call me cynical, but I don't think anything important or valuable in my life will ever be that easy, especially in the realm of interpersonal relationships.


I don't think that's cynical. I think that way of thinking that will endanger people's happiness, and have them behaving in a way akin to learned helplessness in regards to relationships.

Quote:
Another factor is that people with Asperger's can sometimes kill a spark pretty quickly, too. It was hard to admit this to myself, but post-diagnosis, I looked back and realized how often I'd misread cues and inadvertently given out the wrong signals, just because I was lacking in self-awareness. It's honestly kind of embarassing and depressing to look back and assume responsibility for my part in wrecking situations that had shown promise. To an extent, we have limited control in learning to read others, learning how to demonstrate facial expressions and body language that reflect what we are thinking or feeling, etc, but the more we can learn and grow in this area, the better odds we'll have of finding and keeping who we're looking for. It's not fair we have to work harder than most others in this area, but it is what it is.


It seems that aspies have problems even noticing and then working with an initial spark. I used to alienate everyone almost instantly when I was younger. Not ideal for forming relationships. So if that's an issue, you need to deal with that really before you can get anywhere.

Quote:
I'm sorry for this analogy and I hope it doesn't make anyone gag, but I think the whole spark thing is kind of like growing a garden. There are some external factors, like weather (ie, life circumstances, timing, etc), that are beyond your control. If you want to have the best chances of success, all you can do is try to create the most fertile ground possible and, when something starts growing that shows promise, tend it as best you can. But, don't expect to be able to just sit back and let it all happen on its own or you'll probably end up with a patch full of weeds. There is a lot of luck involved, but you can work at things to stack the deck a little more in your favor.


It's an analogy that works for me. It's no good trying to grow blueberry bushes underwater, or in alkaline soil, or in a bucket of sand.

And even with the right conditions, you still need to water and trim, mind out for pests, harvest the fruit etc.


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12 Aug 2011, 11:38 am

Moog wrote:
blueroses wrote:
Moog wrote:
I believe you need to find the ones that do spark, not artificially create a spark.

Keep looking, and use your instincts to guide you. The right people just somehow stand out.


Well, yes and no. Like the Green Day lyric, "You can't go forcing something, if it's just not right." But, on the other hand, if something is of value to you, it should be worth putting forth a little effort to get it. And, if meeting someone you'll be happy with is important to you, it's no different.


Sorry, I tend to assume such things go without saying.


Oh, no! Assuming that I can read between the lines on things is quite dangerous, lol.

Moog wrote:
Quote:
Some people are incompatible with each other, period. Others are slow starters. I'm not sure if it comes from TV or fairy tales or what, but so many people seem to have this notion that the moment you meet 'The One,' you'll know, sparks will fly and everything else will magically fall into place. Call me cynical, but I don't think anything important or valuable in my life will ever be that easy, especially in the realm of interpersonal relationships.


I don't think that's cynical. I think that way of thinking will endanger people's happiness, and have them behaving in a way akin to learned helplessness in regards to relationships.


That's an excellent way of describing that and something seen a lot on this forum.



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16 Aug 2011, 12:25 am

This thread is exactly what I have been looking for to try and gain some insight!
I too have been getting countless 'I felt no spark' responses.
I've had very similar experiences as I_am_Kira. Girls that I thought we shared a ton in common... even things like food pickyness. And after the date, they just say they didn't feel a spark.

I just can't understand what this spark is. If you laugh all night with someone, can talk about any number of things, you feel very comfortable with them, etc. To me, at least, THATS a spark. That makes me want to keep seeing them and hope something comes of it. It seems most people jsut give up and use this 'spark' excuse.. I don't think they even know what it is.
Do people really think within a couple hours of meeting someone fireworks will go off? Sometimes you have to work at it a little bit. Hell, give people the benefit of the doubt and have a second date, if nothing else it gets rid of a lot of the nervousness of the first date!

Even kissing means nothing to people.
This last week I had a very nice date with a girl, and for the 2nd time in my life I had a 1st date kiss. 2 days later she calls to say she can't see me again. If she was so iffy.. why kiss? If I knew she was iffy I never would have kissed her!
To me I only get to the point of kissing if I am comfortable and really get along with and relate to someone. I don't do it for the hell of it, and I certainly don't expect fireworks in my pants the 1st time. I just expect it to be a sign that maybe this can go somewhere.

Maybe most people see the spark thing in a way that we simply cant understand. Or maybe they just don't find us attractive and thats their way of saying it nicely. All I know is a connection/spark to me, is having things in common and the ability to relate to someone. Not if I want to get them home and jump them 20minutes into meeting. I've had a couple girls I had a date with I didn't think were that attractive, but after chatting for the night I found we actually had a bunch in common and related well.... that may them a good bit more attractive!



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16 Aug 2011, 5:44 am

combatcupcake wrote:
All I know is a connection/spark to me, is having things in common and the ability to relate to someone.


Having something in common and the ability to relate to someone is nice, it's a basis for friendship. You need something a bit more for' spark'. Spark for me is almost like, it creates an altered state of consciousness; the person acts as a catalyst in relating to the universe in a completely transformed way.

Image

In the lovers card, the meeting of male and female provides a window to the divine. Note the woman beholding the angel and the heavenly glory... this is not far off.

Many people do get into relationships though without spark, and they often resemble friendships with a sexual component, or flatmates type arrangements.


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16 Aug 2011, 5:49 am

This might be helpful, when this girl walked into my college algebra class i felt something i couldn't explain, then she sat next to me and it was something else. You can't really know if it is going both ways unless the other person tells you. idk maybe you can though.