The Sad Truth About Racists
28 Aug 2011, 4:56 pm
puddingmouse wrote:
Tequila, there are plenty of leftwingers in the UK who are critical of the country's immigration policy and also the effects of multiculturalism. It's just not a popular opinion on the left, so we keep quiet about it.
Indeed - I know socialist anti-EU types in that vein too. But they keep quiet about their euroscepticism.
28 Aug 2011, 5:26 pm
Tequila wrote:
Again, as I was saying - I live in a very white, very middle-class area. It's not really affecting us as it might do if it were you.
I quite like living where I live. I prefer living in the multiracial 'ghetto' to living in poor white areas. I just feel at home in places like this.
I just think the multicultural project has failed as regards Pakistani Muslims. They look down on the whites in the poor areas they often live in. Tbh, I can see why...but I've had to grow up with being treated like dirt by the odd Pakistani boy as a result of my skin colour. Obviously, they're not all like that, it's just that their culture lets them get away with it, if they're inclined to be that way. People turn a blind eye to this because it's an uncomfortable truth.
Also, I'm not against immigration at all, just the lack of control we have over it.
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MarketAndChurch
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29 Aug 2011, 7:30 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I hardly see how high speed rail and universal medicine wouldn't work in America, just because of American exceptionalism. Does American exeptionalism dictate that people die from lack of medical care because they can't afford it?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It Does Work In A Small Part Of America:
They don't work in America because it would require a massive centralized government that can dictate where people live and how they live to make it work. High-Speed Rail does work in the NE corner of America but it was a matter of luck that we colonized the east coast first and job opportunities brought in waves of people who condensed and saturated the region. The length of the line that the Acela runs has more people per mile then anywhere else in the country, and can justify more stops. Density and frequency of stops legitimize a bullet train(as evident in Japan and France). There are very few places outside of it that can justify a bullet train, save for perhaps Portland to Vancouver BC or LA to San Diego, or perhaps even San Jose to Sacramento, but even that is a very very long stretch and very unlikely that it'll work.
It can't work outside of there:
Putting it other places that don't meet that requirement just because you want an alternative to flying a plane and it makes your country looks modern is not... if anything it is financial suicide since even where HSR works, the general public still subsidize it a bit, or in other words: It is not self-sustaining. Which is fine... it doesn't have to be, but there is a difference between paying a small amount for the public good, and the taxpayer footing the entire bill to the tune of several billions of dollars so you can live out your fantasy. And that's just the construction of this dumb idea. Currently, public transportation doesn't have noble market outside NYC, and even that is under 15%. It is dense, services a lot of jobs, is an economic hub, has a high-speed-rail that brings people in and out of the city, etc, but that is just one city. Public transportation adds nothing to the economy, is heavily dependent on highway trust fund and the road-going population via taxes, licenses, fees, and other things to keep it alive, and that is excluding the profits that are taxed by everyone who benefits from roads like TOyota, GM, the manufacturer of tires, car washes, those who haul tv-sets from the port to your local bestbuy, those who use to it deliver a service, and those who use it to go to work.
In Japan:
Japan privatized its HSR and the public debt for it was 250 billion dollars. It has since moved to 280 billion. You can make up some excuse to pay it off but the reality of it is that life happens, the budget is tied up in other things, and debt grows. It is also a lot of money for a country with 60% less the population of the United States though it should be noted that there are more people who use the train in Japan then there are people who use public transportation in the United States. The market for it Tokyo and Osaka is 60%, whereas only 3.8% of the people in the SF Bay use our railways, be it BART or Cal-Train. It's a high cost for Japan, but well-used and well-planned. But they have the transit-using population, the proximity of stops, the density, the access of railway to jobs, having the stops pass through major economic hubs instead of a point-to-point destination like LA-to-SF like that is being proposed, etc.
Final Thoughts
This is just like the stupid health care proposal, it was just dumped on a slightly imperfect system, fixing none of its flaws and creating new ones along the way. People need to understand why they work where they work before importing it to somewhere that isn't supportive of it. If you want to become a dictator and reorder where people live in the state of California, and order the states of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona to relocate all of their people into the interior of California or import immigrants from elsewhere to make this fantasy a reality, good luck.
It is nice that you liberals fantasize and glamorize modernity but do it without resorting to fascism, socialism to the far left of most of Europe, or taxing the rich half or most of their income and maybe you have a chance.
I hardly think you need to remove whole populations from one place to another in order to make these things work. And by the way, it was the right who used to say that the left was using fascistic policies in order to legislate civil rights. Come to think of it, Rick Perry seems to be poking that dead horse with a stick these days.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
well density and a large population count is a basic requirement to make HSR work... in Japan its close to 90 million who have access to the trains and can access their places of employment using it... in France, a country of 65+ million people can help keep their HSR afloat but not as well as Japan's, but the state of california will barely reach 44 million in 2030? Its at 37 million right now, where do you plan on getting all of these people to make this train thingy work?
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Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Aug 2011, 9:59 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I hardly see how high speed rail and universal medicine wouldn't work in America, just because of American exceptionalism. Does American exeptionalism dictate that people die from lack of medical care because they can't afford it?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It Does Work In A Small Part Of America:
They don't work in America because it would require a massive centralized government that can dictate where people live and how they live to make it work. High-Speed Rail does work in the NE corner of America but it was a matter of luck that we colonized the east coast first and job opportunities brought in waves of people who condensed and saturated the region. The length of the line that the Acela runs has more people per mile then anywhere else in the country, and can justify more stops. Density and frequency of stops legitimize a bullet train(as evident in Japan and France). There are very few places outside of it that can justify a bullet train, save for perhaps Portland to Vancouver BC or LA to San Diego, or perhaps even San Jose to Sacramento, but even that is a very very long stretch and very unlikely that it'll work.
It can't work outside of there:
Putting it other places that don't meet that requirement just because you want an alternative to flying a plane and it makes your country looks modern is not... if anything it is financial suicide since even where HSR works, the general public still subsidize it a bit, or in other words: It is not self-sustaining. Which is fine... it doesn't have to be, but there is a difference between paying a small amount for the public good, and the taxpayer footing the entire bill to the tune of several billions of dollars so you can live out your fantasy. And that's just the construction of this dumb idea. Currently, public transportation doesn't have noble market outside NYC, and even that is under 15%. It is dense, services a lot of jobs, is an economic hub, has a high-speed-rail that brings people in and out of the city, etc, but that is just one city. Public transportation adds nothing to the economy, is heavily dependent on highway trust fund and the road-going population via taxes, licenses, fees, and other things to keep it alive, and that is excluding the profits that are taxed by everyone who benefits from roads like TOyota, GM, the manufacturer of tires, car washes, those who haul tv-sets from the port to your local bestbuy, those who use to it deliver a service, and those who use it to go to work.
In Japan:
Japan privatized its HSR and the public debt for it was 250 billion dollars. It has since moved to 280 billion. You can make up some excuse to pay it off but the reality of it is that life happens, the budget is tied up in other things, and debt grows. It is also a lot of money for a country with 60% less the population of the United States though it should be noted that there are more people who use the train in Japan then there are people who use public transportation in the United States. The market for it Tokyo and Osaka is 60%, whereas only 3.8% of the people in the SF Bay use our railways, be it BART or Cal-Train. It's a high cost for Japan, but well-used and well-planned. But they have the transit-using population, the proximity of stops, the density, the access of railway to jobs, having the stops pass through major economic hubs instead of a point-to-point destination like LA-to-SF like that is being proposed, etc.
Final Thoughts
This is just like the stupid health care proposal, it was just dumped on a slightly imperfect system, fixing none of its flaws and creating new ones along the way. People need to understand why they work where they work before importing it to somewhere that isn't supportive of it. If you want to become a dictator and reorder where people live in the state of California, and order the states of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona to relocate all of their people into the interior of California or import immigrants from elsewhere to make this fantasy a reality, good luck.
It is nice that you liberals fantasize and glamorize modernity but do it without resorting to fascism, socialism to the far left of most of Europe, or taxing the rich half or most of their income and maybe you have a chance.
I hardly think you need to remove whole populations from one place to another in order to make these things work. And by the way, it was the right who used to say that the left was using fascistic policies in order to legislate civil rights. Come to think of it, Rick Perry seems to be poking that dead horse with a stick these days.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
well density and a large population count is a basic requirement to make HSR work... in Japan its close to 90 million who have access to the trains and can access their places of employment using it... in France, a country of 65+ million people can help keep their HSR afloat but not as well as Japan's, but the state of california will barely reach 44 million in 2030? Its at 37 million right now, where do you plan on getting all of these people to make this train thingy work?
Me personally, I have no idea. But then again, I'm not the one implementing the thing.
But how does that possibly figure into universal healthcare?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
24 Sep 2011, 7:28 am
Tequila, I don't even know where to begin with you.
I'll keep it simple:
a] The EDL is a joke, but not a funny one. When did you join? Get Breiviks' autograph? j/k
b] Wtf could possibly turn people away from halal food, beside the Sikh example? (I agree on disclosure)
c] You clearly have little to no understanding of Islam whatsoever. If anyone commits rape, or even deliberately compels a woman to do ANYTHING she doesn't consent to, including wearing hijab/niqab/burqa, then they are not a real Muslim. They can repent for their actions and hope that Allah is merciful to them - but being cruel to women is basically a one-way ticket to Hell.
d] Do not conflate the actions of a small segment of your local immigrant population (which has problems no different than any other damn group of people) with those of a religion representing nearly a third of the Earth's population, spanning more cultures than you could keep track of. That is an ignorant pastime.
e] Sociopaths in governments worldwide deliberately attempt to foment conflict and mistrust amongst their public as a means of controlling them and maintaining power, influence, and capacity to fleece said public. Grow up, build a bridge and get over it, rise above it. It sounds as though the Pakistani population has as weak an understanding of Islam as you do, or simply deviant cultural practices. Maybe it would be beneficial for you to enlist the aid of Islamic organizations that could help in education of those poor folks - it would lessen the social tensions and community problems, and potentially find a way to unite the groups of people to solidify your grievances with your politicians. They sound like the real enemy in the long run anyhow. Remember, human beings all have the same basic needs and the same fundamental desires. Sociopaths do not.
So what if you can't use your community pool? Team up with the Pakistanis and get someone in office that will have another community pool built for non-Muslims. Guarantee you the Pakistanis would be happy to help get that done, so they would not have to worry about any awkwardness or tension as much as you do.
Be creative.
Oh, and...
May Allah guide you, bless you, and make things easy for you too!
_________________
One angry Muslim. I might just debate you into little tiny bits, WALLAHI!
Get me out of this country. The air is thick with arrested development.
24 Sep 2011, 8:19 am
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
24 Sep 2011, 8:25 am
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
The attainment of individuals is a mixed thing. Part of it is genetically based and part of it is dependent on up-bringing and experience. There is probably less variation in attainment due to genetics than there is variation due to upbringing and culture.
ruveyn
24 Sep 2011, 8:26 am
ruveyn wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
The attainment of individuals is a mixed thing. Part of it is genetically based and part of it is dependent on up-bringing and experience. There is probably less variation in attainment due to genetics than there is variation due to upbringing and culture.
ruveyn
I agree, I think it's like the sexes as well. There are differences between men and women, but they are culturally exaggerated by society.
24 Sep 2011, 1:10 pm
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
It makes you incorrect
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Kraichgauer
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24 Sep 2011, 2:13 pm
Vigilans wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
It makes you incorrect
As I've stated before, white men can jump, and black men can become Harvard professors.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
24 Sep 2011, 6:46 pm
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
24 Sep 2011, 6:56 pm
Raptor wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
Provide some scientific backup to that claim, then you can actually say it involves honesty and observance and not "I trust my gut more than I do books"
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
24 Sep 2011, 7:10 pm
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
Provide some scientific backup to that claim, then you can actually say it involves honesty and observance and not "I trust my gut more than I do books"
Believe it or not, I can say it with or without your approval.
24 Sep 2011, 7:22 pm
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
Provide some scientific backup to that claim, then you can actually say it involves honesty and observance and not "I trust my gut more than I do books"
Genetic tests can match people to their self-designated races with enormous accuracy. Since geographical separation, genetic drift and natural selection have clearly helped make the races look different on the outside, the onus is on the egalitarians to explain how exactly nature has contrived to make the races exactly the same "on the inside".
So go ahead, Vigilans. Show us the science. (I personally would like to see you guide us through the reasoning rather than just name-dropping.)
Really, one minute liberals are all about celebrating diversity and the next they're trying to enforce uniformity upon nature itself. What a conundrum!
Last edited by codarac on 24 Sep 2011, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
24 Sep 2011, 7:24 pm
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
Provide some scientific backup to that claim, then you can actually say it involves honesty and observance and not "I trust my gut more than I do books"
Believe it or not, I can say it with or without your approval.
Translation: "I don't care about facts, all that matters is my own narrow, minimally informed world view"
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
24 Sep 2011, 7:27 pm
codarac wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Does it make me a racist that I believe that races do have a basis in reality? Don't get me wrong, I believe all humans are inherently equal by the law, but I do think on average, there are differences between races, and this might even include things like physical strength and even certain forms of intelligence.
That would make your observant and honest but politically incorrect.
Provide some scientific backup to that claim, then you can actually say it involves honesty and observance and not "I trust my gut more than I do books"
Genetic tests can match people to their self-designated races with enormous accuracy. Since geographical separation, genetic drift and natural selection have clearly helped make the races look different on the outside, the onus is on the egalitarians to explain how exactly nature has contrived to make the races exactly the same "on the inside".
So go ahead, Vigilans. Show us the science. (I personally would like to see you guide us through the reasoning rather than just name-dropping.)
You're talking about superficial differences that are well known to exist. The implication of donnie_darko and Raptor's statements are that there are inferior or superior traits inherent to certain "races". The onus is on you making the claim to provide evidence, since I am merely engaging in a skeptical inquiry into what amounts to pseudo-scientific rubbish
codarac wrote:
Really, one minute liberals are all about celebrating diversity and the next they're trying to enforce uniformity upon nature itself. What a conundrum!
False analogy. I'm not as liberal as you think. Also thank you for making it more blatantly obvious that the pro-racism (or "racial realism" if I take one of the most popular euphemisms) argument is irrevocably tied to backwards conservatives
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
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