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Sweetleaf
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30 Aug 2011, 8:04 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
I had always thought that people with Asperger's are less likely to lie because: 1: We're supposed to be more "moral" than regular people and see things in black and white i.e. lying is bad, evil, always wrong, even if it's a "white lie" and 2: Even when we DO lie, we're not very good at it because we have trouble pretending to be truthful. But maybe that's just me(?) Or maybe people with AS are often thought to be lying because they have trouble making eye contact. I used to really have a problem with eye contact not because I was hiding something, which I wasn't, but because the shrinks I used to see were acting very stern and cold and therefore I felt like I was on trial or being interrogated for a crime instead of just having a "session".


It is intresting I do not see things in black and white..more like various shades of grey, though sometimes that can be an issue because then I over-analize all the possibilites that come to mind. I come of as odd in general so I feel people don't know how to go about determining if I am being honest or not, so I must not be to bad at pretending to be totally truthful.

The eye contact thing could be part of it....some people think no eye contact=lying.



Yumeji
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30 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm

Verdandi wrote:
My father would accuse me of lying whenever I told the truth, so I started to lie because I thought there was a "right answer" to give him. Naturally, there wasn't. Nothing I said was good enough or true enough.


lostonearth35 wrote:
Or maybe people with AS are often thought to be lying because they have trouble making eye contact. I used to really have a problem with eye contact not because I was hiding something, which I wasn't, but because the shrinks I used to see were acting very stern and cold and therefore I felt like I was on trial or being interrogated for a crime instead of just having a "session".


Sweetleaf wrote:
The eye contact thing could be part of it....some people think no eye contact=lying.


I can relate with Verdandi's frustration of finding the "right answer." It feels like a catch 22, you're dammed if you do tell the truth and you're dammed if you don't. I'm not sure if the lack of eye contact is the culprit or perhaps it's simply the overall misunderstanding of Aspie behaviours that makes it easier for others to be suspicious of Aspies.

I always believed that if I was innocent then the truth would eventually prove itself; however, it seems that is not always the case. I've been told that I need to be more proactive in proving my innocence because contrary to what should be, most people will believe you are guilty before innocent.



Last edited by Yumeji on 31 Aug 2011, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

davidalan11235813
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30 Aug 2011, 9:38 pm

It's been said several times in here, but it still merits repeating; NO, Asperger's is not related to lying. That is not to say that Aspies are incapable of lying (show me a man who says he's always honest and I'll show you a liar), but for several reasons (the tendancy towards moral absolutism, and the tendency to be very bad liars), Aspies seem to lie less than neurotypical people.



Ilka
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30 Aug 2011, 9:53 pm

My husband and daughter are perfect examples that Asples can lie. My husband was a consumate liar when he was young. My daughter would lie not to get punished when she was little. We teached her not to lie, by example and by showing her being honest was more rewarding than telling lies, because I would always find out. My husband does not tell lies now, neither my daughter, but I think that is developed, and depends on the enrvironment.

Trying to use AS as an excuse is pretty normal, but should not be accepted. My daughter sometimes playes the "I cannot because I am an Aspie" card. That card is just not valid. Having AS just means that some things are going to be more difficult for her, but not impossible. There are always ways to achieve things. Maybe your sister needs help. Professional or from her family.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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30 Aug 2011, 9:59 pm

AlphaSister wrote:
My sister has been diagnosed with Aspergers and while it is a relief to finally know what is going on she has used it as an excuse for everything from slouching to not following through on appointments. Yesterday I caught her in an outright, baldfaced lie-is that at all related to her Aspergers?

I don't know. When I was a kid I lied all the time. It was like I didn't understand the importance of words and their deeper significance. To me it sounded like gibberish coming from mine and others mouths so it didn't matter to me what I said half the time. I didn't realize how relevant words are.

So I lied.



littlelily613
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30 Aug 2011, 10:31 pm

This has likely been said already, but anyway: of course there are Aspie liars out there, but no, it is not related to Aspergers. People on the spectrum tend to be completely honest and outright. That would be more related to Aspergers than lying. But of course, that doesn't mean there will never be an Aspie out there who does lie.


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jmnixon95
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30 Aug 2011, 10:40 pm

Can't really lie without giving away signs, not to mention it feels wrong to me and in the instance that I do tell a lie I feel very compelled to confess the truth.



scubasteve
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30 Aug 2011, 11:07 pm

Not following through with appointments, maybe. Lying, no. Doesn't matter though. No good will come of letting her do any of those things, whether they're caused by Asperger's or not. Not much point in knowing what's going on if you don't intend to do anything about it.



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30 Aug 2011, 11:21 pm

Ilka wrote:
My husband and daughter are perfect examples that Asples can lie. My husband was a consumate liar when he was young. My daughter would lie not to get punished when she was little. We teached her not to lie, by example and by showing her being honest was more rewarding than telling lies, because I would always find out. My husband does not tell lies now, neither my daughter, but I think that is developed, and depends on the enrvironment.

Trying to use AS as an excuse is pretty normal, but should not be accepted. My daughter sometimes playes the "I cannot because I am an Aspie" card. That card is just not valid. Having AS just means that some things are going to be more difficult for her, but not impossible. There are always ways to achieve things. Maybe your sister needs help. Professional or from her family.


Well i would argue that AS actually can make things nearly impossible to impossible.....not all things, but there are some things I cannot do because of my AS. like I cannot focus on what someone is saying if I am trying to look them in the eye, I can hear them fine if I don't bother worrying about the eye contact which feels so very unnatural to me...I cannot walk up to someone I don't know and strike up a conversation they have to talk to me or it has to be in the context of I go into a resturant to order food for instance. So I would hope you at least acknowledge some things can be very difficult and sometimes things that are not 'impossible' can seem that way.....and when I was growing up people constantly going on about how I just was not trying hard enough ect. did much more harm than good. But I cannot judge based on on post......that is just my experiance with AS, though it was not even known to me when I was growing up that I had any sort of condition. So I ended up beating myself up over not being good enough on top of having others enforce that I was just not doing enough.



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31 Aug 2011, 9:37 am

Verdandi wrote:
Does having a label mean you need to be just like everyone else and so the label can explain nothing at all? Seems pointless to have the label then.


Of course not but it helps to know what can be done to help her lead a decent life (being able to support herself, take care of herself and not be taken advantage of); what aspects of her behavior can be modified and what just IS. Right or wrong, society at large is not going to adjust to those of us who think differently so if we don't learn how to function in a world that isn't ideal for us life can be miserable.



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31 Aug 2011, 10:27 am

Lying isn't related to AS although I can lie when I want to. But I don't class that as AS, instead I class it as an NT trait I have. I don't say whatever comes into my head. I often think of things what might offend the other person, but I know not to say them. I just don't say anything at all, not even something what is opposite to what I was thinking. I am quite good at this. But I suppose that isn't lying. It's just unverbalizing your thoughts.


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Ilka
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31 Aug 2011, 11:02 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well i would argue that AS actually can make things nearly impossible to impossible.....not all things, but there are some things I cannot do because of my AS. like I cannot focus on what someone is saying if I am trying to look them in the eye, I can hear them fine if I don't bother worrying about the eye contact which feels so very unnatural to me...I cannot walk up to someone I don't know and strike up a conversation they have to talk to me or it has to be in the context of I go into a restaurant to order food for instance. So I would hope you at least acknowledge some things can be very difficult and sometimes things that are not 'impossible' can seem that way.....and when I was growing up people constantly going on about how I just was not trying hard enough etc. did much more harm than good. But I cannot judge based on on post......that is just my experience with AS, though it was not even known to me when I was growing up that I had any sort of condition. So I ended up beating myself up over not being good enough on top of having others enforce that I was just not doing enough.


Well, I do not tell my kid that she is not trying hard enough, but I tell her she cannot blame everything on AS. The last time she used that card she was trying to make me go to school to talk to her lab teacher because the teacher scolded her. Turned out she was talking to a classmate while the teacher was giving the lecture to the rest of the class. She wanted me to talk to the teacher and explain to him that she has AS and he cannot talk to her like that because she has AS. I told her "No. If you do not want the teacher to talk to you like that again, do not speak while the teacher is giving the lecture. You know you should not do that." She got angry, even cried, because she wanted to get "special treatment" because of her AS. I know she can keep her mouth shut. I know some things are difficult for her, but the things I know are difficult for her I handle in a different way, but I never get "I cannot" for an answer. "This is difficult for me" I can take. And then we work together, or I refer the problem to her therapist (who is WONDERFUL), but things can be worked out.

I heard about someone who uses a technique of not looking into people's eyes, but concentrate in that spot between the eyes, so it will look like he is looking into their eyes, but he avoids getting the overwhelming sensation of looking into their eyes. About the restaurants there is wonderful tool right now: some restaurants have their menu on-line, so you can read the menu, write what you want to order in a piece of paper, take a sit and hand the paper to waiter. You can bring another paper asking for the check, another beverage, or more water. :)



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31 Aug 2011, 11:40 am

Ilka, I really wish my family had taken that approach with my sister. Unfortunately it was just generally accepted that she was "different" and nothing could be done. Now she is 30 and there are YEARS of self-destructive behaviors she keeps repeating because she knows nothing else. You are doing a wonderful thing for your daughter-thank you!



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31 Aug 2011, 1:22 pm

I think there's been more than enough said about lying, but the slumped shoulders are indeed _natural_ for an Aspie, just like the mechanical walk. I saw Tony Attwood once doing a presentation on a Web conference, demonstrating a game called "Spot the Aspie"-- too complicated in general to be recounted here, but he demonstrated that walk. And I have it too. HOWEVER, we can learn better, just like we learned to tie our shoes: some NTs have lousy posture too. Your sister just needs to work at it. Have her do things like walk around with a book balanced on her head, or put a piece of masking tape on her back between her arms, so every time she slumps it will remind her to stand/sit up straight.

On the appointments, we're naturally sort of disorganized on anything but our special topics, because we're only paying attention to the one thing in our lives: someone else mentioned "Executive Function". Yup, that's natural to an Aspie, but again, it's something we need to work on. NTs need to work on being able to concentrate on just one thing for a while, for school or work, something that we Aspies do naturally, "to a fault".

So, Asperger's is _why_ she does those things, but it's not an excuse. We learn to tie our shoes, we learn to stand up straight.



AlphaSister
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31 Aug 2011, 1:53 pm

Thanks everyone. It is not that I expect her to be perfect but she has to make an effort in order to get along. That is how it is for anyone. If you go to live in another country you are expected to adhere to that country's languages and customs and social rules and it is the same for those of us who think and operate differently. We have to adapt and find a way to make it all work.



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31 Aug 2011, 2:03 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
AlphaSister wrote:
My sister has been diagnosed with Aspergers and while it is a relief to finally know what is going on she has used it as an excuse for everything from slouching to not following through on appointments. Yesterday I caught her in an outright, baldfaced lie-is that at all related to her Aspergers?

I don't know. When I was a kid I lied all the time. It was like I didn't understand the importance of words and their deeper significance. To me it sounded like gibberish coming from mine and others mouths so it didn't matter to me what I said half the time. I didn't realize how relevant words are.

So I lied.



I also lied to stay out of trouble and also because I would give out selected answers and not even understand. I would also lie thinking I was supposed to say it because someone keep asking. I also remember making up stories. I don't know why I did it.

Then I stopped lying when I was 12 because I wanted to be good. I didn't know white lies existed and all that and it was something you're supposed to do. I did think it was okay to lie about your age for cheaper admission and sneaking candy into movie theaters because mom did it so I thought those lies were okay. I still think they are. Same as lying about age so your kid can be in a hot tub or get on a ride or get into something. I knew of a place that had the age limit six years and up for miniature golfing so my parents lie about my brother's age.