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ruveyn
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04 Oct 2011, 11:55 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Most of these people are "useful idiots."

They likely have no idea that they are doing the very thing the power brokers want them to do.

Protests lead to riots.

Riots produce a crisis.

Crisis gives power brokers an opportunity to do what they had planned all along.


And crises will lead to even more government intervention in our lives.

Government ought to be the defender of liberty and life. But more often than it should it is the enemy of liberty and life.

ruveyn



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04 Oct 2011, 1:15 pm

I just read a tremendously scathing investigative report on Koch Industries. It's one of the better pieces of journalism that I've seen in quite a while. It's long, but it's really a vital read for those who still don't understand how the machine works. Bribery, theft, deals with Iran, anti-trust conspiracies, falsification of records, illegal dumping of toxic waste (and refuses to pay court-ordered fines), and overall negligent and unsafe practices that have led to deaths for some.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-0 ... sales.html

These are the people at the front lines fighting against regulations. These are the people who intercepted the Tea Party movement to make it their own. There is nothing in their business model that serves the people - nothing.



techstepgenr8tion
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04 Oct 2011, 1:31 pm

number5 wrote:
I just read a tremendously scathing investigative report on Koch Industries. It's one of the better pieces of journalism that I've seen in quite a while. It's long, but it's really a vital read for those who still don't understand how the machine works. Bribery, theft, deals with Iran, anti-trust conspiracies, falsification of records, illegal dumping of toxic waste (and refuses to pay court-ordered fines), and overall negligent and unsafe practices that have led to deaths for some.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-0 ... sales.html

These are the people at the front lines fighting against regulations. These are the people who intercepted the Tea Party movement to make it their own. There is nothing in their business model that serves the people - nothing.

People like this pretty much anyone - conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, can agree on.


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Inuyasha
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04 Oct 2011, 5:12 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
number5 wrote:
I just read a tremendously scathing investigative report on Koch Industries. It's one of the better pieces of journalism that I've seen in quite a while. It's long, but it's really a vital read for those who still don't understand how the machine works. Bribery, theft, deals with Iran, anti-trust conspiracies, falsification of records, illegal dumping of toxic waste (and refuses to pay court-ordered fines), and overall negligent and unsafe practices that have led to deaths for some.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-0 ... sales.html

These are the people at the front lines fighting against regulations. These are the people who intercepted the Tea Party movement to make it their own. There is nothing in their business model that serves the people - nothing.

People like this pretty much anyone - conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, can agree on.


Except if you do some checking, you'd find that right wing sources are having a field day concerning Bloomberg:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sh ... -projectio
http://bigjournalism.com/derkommissar/2 ... ore-224984

Not to mention it seems the Koch Brothers are now filing lawsuits against people:
The Kochs also deployed a forceful response in late December against an anonymous group of pranksters who had issued a fake press release purporting to be from the company – and set up a corresponding website –implying Koch Industries had changed its skeptical stance towards climate change, and would cease funding organizations that worked to debunk climate science and oppose legislation to limit carbon emissions.

Koch Industries sued the pranksters, who called themselves Youth for Climate Truth, alleging the prank harmed Koch’s “business and reputation,” as well as its “goodwill … in the minds of the public” – and seeking $100,000 and other damages.

Deepak Gupta, a lawyer for the watchdog group Public Citizen, which is defending the climate group, called the Koch suit “a very aggressive move. It’s sort of like using a bazooka to get at a fly.” And Public Citizen’s filings suggested it may have backfired, furthering the pranksters goal of “drawing additional media attention to Koch’s political activities.”

But Koch’s top lawyer Mark Holden defended the lawsuit, telling POLITICO “intentional theft and trademark infringement may be just a prank to some people, but we take it seriously.”

http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/ ... id=5038487

Seriously, while politico is trying to paint the Koch Brothers in the worst possible light as is bloomberg, the fact there is a history of the media coming up with bogus stuff concerning the Koch Brothers, I'd say it is a toss up as to who is telling the truth.

What bloomberg is alledging is troubling, if true. Though there is evidence that makes what bloomberg's story suspect, so my advice is read it with a grain of salt.



blauSamstag
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04 Oct 2011, 6:56 pm

newsbusters is not a source. They make fox news look fair and balanced.

dunno about the 2nd one but i am highly skeptical of their bias as well.



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04 Oct 2011, 7:03 pm

Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?


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04 Oct 2011, 7:13 pm

Fnord wrote:
Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?


Of course not. American politics has reached the point where if anything happens that big business and the finance industry dislikes, the stock market takes a dive from "loss of confidence". The economy's performance now is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's bad for Wall Street, Wall Street makes it bad for business.



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04 Oct 2011, 7:17 pm

Obres wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?
Of course not. American politics has reached the point where if anything happens that big business and the finance industry dislikes, the stock market takes a dive from "loss of confidence". The economy's performance now is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's bad for Wall Street, Wall Street makes it bad for business.

So what is the point in occupying Wall Street, other than providing a venue for hooking up?


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04 Oct 2011, 7:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
Obres wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?
Of course not. American politics has reached the point where if anything happens that big business and the finance industry dislikes, the stock market takes a dive from "loss of confidence". The economy's performance now is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's bad for Wall Street, Wall Street makes it bad for business.

So what is the point in occupying Wall Street, other than providing a venue for hooking up?

I'm more of a pragmatist to be honest and don't think the "we must punishing wall street" message is pointing towards a solution to our economic ills. But all political movements have to start somewhere. The pre-Obama Tea Party started out as a protest movement before it morphed into the far-right wing of the Republican Party.



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04 Oct 2011, 8:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
Obres wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?
Of course not. American politics has reached the point where if anything happens that big business and the finance industry dislikes, the stock market takes a dive from "loss of confidence". The economy's performance now is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's bad for Wall Street, Wall Street makes it bad for business.

So what is the point in occupying Wall Street, other than providing a venue for hooking up?


What's the point of any political movement in America other than hooking up? It's not like anything actually gets accomplished. And btw, that's the worst part about the tea party :eew:



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04 Oct 2011, 9:17 pm

marshall wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Obres wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Has any of this Wall Street Bashing resulted in even one person being hired to gainful employment?
Of course not. American politics has reached the point where if anything happens that big business and the finance industry dislikes, the stock market takes a dive from "loss of confidence". The economy's performance now is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's bad for Wall Street, Wall Street makes it bad for business.

So what is the point in occupying Wall Street, other than providing a venue for hooking up?

I'm more of a pragmatist to be honest and don't think the "we must punishing wall street" message is pointing towards a solution to our economic ills. But all political movements have to start somewhere. The pre-Obama Tea Party started out as a protest movement before it morphed into the far-right wing of the Republican Party.


Somehow I think this "protest" group can be traced back to the Obama campaign, this is like Coffee party 2.0.



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04 Oct 2011, 9:21 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Somehow I think this "protest" group can be traced back to the Obama campaign, this is like Coffee party 2.0.

Whatever.



Inuyasha
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04 Oct 2011, 9:29 pm

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Somehow I think this "protest" group can be traced back to the Obama campaign, this is like Coffee party 2.0.

Whatever.


Well let's see the Obama campaign is blaming the GOP for the actions of Democrat Harry Reid on the Jobs bill. The Democrats are being so blatently in campaign mode it's rather hysterical that they think anyone will buy that song and dance routine.



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04 Oct 2011, 9:45 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Most of these people are "useful idiots."

They likely have no idea that they are doing the very thing the power brokers want them to do.

Protests lead to riots.

Riots produce a crisis.

Crisis gives power brokers an opportunity to do what they had planned all along.
We are already in crisis.

Not really getting conservatives' hardcore subservience to wall street.


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05 Oct 2011, 12:15 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
marshall wrote:
number5 wrote:
They even changed his original quote to exclude the term "brokers," (shown in bold) which is who Peter Schiff was looking to hire. I, for one, am not concerned at all about any shortage of brokers in this country.

Also, no one is being specific enough here. Which regulations and why should they be deemed unimportant? Do we have too many regulations? Probably, but it's not a numbers game. We certainly don't have the right regulations in place or the collapse wouldn't have happened in the first place. We probably do have a bunch of useless ones that warrant examination, but no one seems to be up for an in-depth look at it.


Because repeating talking points and memes is so much easier. Peter Schiff's idea of "useless" regulations are things like minimum wages, overtime compensation, employee anti-discrimination law, etc...


indeed, peter schiff is the sort of unamerican wannabe robber baron that not only deserves no forum, but does not even deserve to be told the time of day. He is the poster child for ideas that have no place in civilized society, and I hope to meet him some day so that I can personally spit on him.


I hope you do get to meet Peter Schiff, maybe then he could pound some sense into you(only metaphorically of course :wink: ) and explain the actual consequences of certain well intention rules, subsidation, and regulations. I suppose to actual result isn't that important to people of your ilk so much as the warm fuzzy feeling that comes from "trying", meanwhile the Walmarts of the world take advantage and drive even more competition out of the market. What's the solution? More rules, more regulations, more subsidies!


We've already been to a world with the lack of regulation he's asking for. The real result was widespread poverty.

Maybe he can explain it to me but it's obvious that you can't because you're just a cheerleader.
I have, I can't force you guys to read it tho I guess so there really isn't much of a point anymore. If I'm a cheerleader, what does that make you?



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05 Oct 2011, 10:12 am

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
... Maybe he can explain it to me but it's obvious that you can't because you're just a cheerleader.
I have, I can't force you guys to read it tho I guess so there really isn't much of a point anymore. If I'm a cheerleader, what does that make you?

The guy who stayed home from the game, shut off the telly, and read a good book instead.


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