Will the US be like a rerun of the fall of the Roman Empire?

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Inventor
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03 May 2012, 2:49 am

Feralucce wrote:
Inventor wrote:
As the world reserve we can export inflation.

Our debt is Bonds, long term, fixed rate, and the recent rise of gold, 500%, shows what Bonds are worth.

A devalued dollar is what backs a Yen, so they move in lockstep downward.

This is supposed to drive up other money, making their goods more expensive, as the recent, China must revalue the Yuan upward. China refused.

China, India, Iran, have been buying Gold, Copper, Silver, Iron.

China is now the worlds largest oil producer, and as oil is priced in dollars, the Gulf States seem the fall guys.

All paper money has become worthless, and life went on.


Yeah... That being said, late last year, the UAE held a meeting... if the value of the dollar doesn't grow, we're going to be ousted as the currency oil is dealt in... and then we are screwed.


That has been suggested for the last twenty years, but there is no other to replace it.

More important, what we do produce, Grain, Technology, Weapons, which would then be priced in Gold. All of the weapons systems we have sold need continous spare parts.

We could pull a Soviet Union, we are Russia, and you are all free.

I have some Latvian paper money, smaller than Monopoly money, and worth less. Most former Soviets, have money worth nothing outside their borders. They have to pay in grain, wine, cheese, fruit.

Ex Soviets have incomes from $35 to $200 a month. They lack industry, and must import steel, arms, autos, computers, electric and phone machines, and gas and oil.

Also, they are expected to build their own buildings, defend their own borders, police their own people, and everything they want to do is opposed by two Democratic Gangs, who are modeled on our Washington Freedom.

Both say, "We want to help the people, but they won't let us."

Not only are the good old days missed, Occupation by the Red Army, Stalin is now viewed as a man who got things done.

The world thought they would lose The Great Patrotic War, themselves included, Stalin marched them to Berlin, then stayed, stood up to the West, and created a super power,

Stalin and Beria were from Georgia, Putin b***h slapped the NATO Ally and leveled Uncle Joe's hometown. He trashed Georgia's main port on the Black Sea, sank their ships, and supports a third provence that borders on Turkey. They blew up the only bridge that connects them to Georgia, and are going it alone with Russian backing. He allowed two other provinces to join Russia, and barred the import of Gorgian Wine.

He picked up his old KGB dacha on the Black Sea, and had the Modern Russian Army occupy the beaches, cafes, and night life. They also spend hard exchangable money. They are allowed to sell smuggled Georgian wine in Russia.

Most have CCCP on their birth certificate, and now Russian Passports, money, and are full Citizens.

Turkey calls him, "The New Vlad." With a shudder.

On the other side of Turkey we killed over 100,000 Iraqi's, destroyed their world, then left. Because that is what Freedom is about. From Turkey we are sending activists/terrorists into Syria, to kill children, so the government can be blamed for Child Abuse.

Turkey has been informed that is an act of war, by Vlad, who now holds their northern and southern borders. Their relationship with Syria suffers, also Iraq, Iran, and the Kurds.

Turkey has been cut off, and would get no support from NATO if someone armed the Kurds. Eastern Turkey is Kurds and Armenians, and Iran and Iraq would gladly donate their Kurds to a Kurdistan Homeland, To the west, Turkey can look to support from the Greeks, on Cyprus.

Turkey has been the base that supported Iraq Freedom, now Syrian Freedom and Chetzneian Freedom for the last twenty years, It is time to support a Free Turkey, Kurdistan, and Greater Christian Armenia.

With enough roadside bombs anything is possible. like the recovery of the Seat of The Eastern Orthodox Church in Constantanople.

The Turks have been enticing children to cross from Syria, with candy, murdering them, then planting their bodies in Syria, to destroy the last Christian holdouts and rightful owners of Constantanople.

Syria was the refuge for a million Iraqis, 600,000 Christians, who are now under attack again.

Only Mother Russia and Vlad can drive out the Bedowins and restore the Faithful to the Eastern Empire.

NATO has sold the blood of Christian children for oil, armed desert tribes and called them Kings, as they played their great powers game. The game goes on.

Their guns drove out the rightful keepers of Mecca, who were Syrians.

When Mother Russia is threatened she has never failed to raise a Hero Son up to the task of overcoming the threat. Greeks, Romans, French, Germans, all tried, all were destroyed.

So the Turks want to play Osama Ben Lauden to the Chetzneians? Arming them to kill children in Russia, at schools, concerts, to rule them with terror? The Turks send men with guns into Syria?

Vlad is coming, with 100,000 bears who are his bodyguard, Each is pulling a wagon load of stakes to impale you, They are all around you, the circle closes, they have not come to talk. Notice how the Armenians and Kurds look at you, do you see that faint smile?

What of the 20% of your population who share the same religion as the leaders of Syria?

Those who export terror, civil war, will soon import it.

Rome did decline over time, but each provence lost was like a light going out. It was far away, nothing could be done, and slowly the borders came closer and closer. It was still Rome, till the last light went out.



Mack27
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03 May 2012, 5:35 pm

Money and debt are imaginary things these days. If everybody chose to stop believing in them they wouldn't even exist.



Biokinetica
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22 May 2012, 7:45 am

ruveyn wrote:
Biokinetica wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
On top of that, Spain had engaged in non-stop (religious) war...


A non-warfaring empire would be a contradiction in terms

War is something that describes the human condition. Not the political construct. One nation can be granted inhabited land through a trade agreement and legitimately declare itself an "empire". War is not necessary.


Give some historical examples, please.

ruveyn

The Louisiana Purchase.


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just-me
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28 Mar 2013, 9:13 pm

I have not read all 7 pages so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

If any threat were to occur it would probably most resemble the financial collapse of Germany formally know as the Weimar Republic.

In a nut shell they had a currency not directly linked to gold (same as the US). They printed money to pay for the debt owed to other country's. This devalued there own currency (just like the US) but we have done this to a lesser extent. Example, quantitative easing 1,2 and 3 aka QE3. (look it up)

They tried to create jobs to get the market going (just like US)

Eventually hyperinflation took effect leaving there currency worthless collapsing it.

People wanted change and politician promised it to them sadly
this man was Hitler.... I think you know the rest.

My reference is in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic



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28 Mar 2013, 9:41 pm

just-me wrote:
I have not read all 7 pages so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

If any threat were to occur it would probably most resemble the financial collapse of Germany formally know as the Weimar Republic.

In a nut shell they had a currency not directly linked to gold (same as the US). They printed money to pay for the debt owed to other country's. This devalued there own currency (just like the US) but we have done this to a lesser extent. Example, quantitative easing 1,2 and 3 aka QE3. (look it up)

They tried to create jobs to get the market going (just like US)

Eventually hyperinflation took effect leaving there currency worthless collapsing it.

People wanted change and politician promised it to them sadly
this man was Hitler.... I think you know the rest.

My reference is in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic


That comparison is also ludicrous. The problems of the Weimar Republic were largely due to the fact that the Allies made a deliberate effort to punish Germany economically for starting WWI. The debt they owed was largely not in their own currency.



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28 Mar 2013, 10:39 pm

marshall wrote:
just-me wrote:
I have not read all 7 pages so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

If any threat were to occur it would probably most resemble the financial collapse of Germany formally know as the Weimar Republic.

In a nut shell they had a currency not directly linked to gold (same as the US). They printed money to pay for the debt owed to other country's. This devalued there own currency (just like the US) but we have done this to a lesser extent. Example, quantitative easing 1,2 and 3 aka QE3. (look it up)

They tried to create jobs to get the market going (just like US)

Eventually hyperinflation took effect leaving there currency worthless collapsing it.

People wanted change and politician promised it to them sadly
this man was Hitler.... I think you know the rest.

My reference is in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic


That comparison is also ludicrous. The problems of the Weimar Republic were largely due to the fact that the Allies made a deliberate effort to punish Germany economically for starting WWI. The debt they owed was largely not in their own currency.


The US situation is different but the similarity's are striking and the end result could be the same. By end result i mean hyper inflation and a currency collapse. we owe a huge sum of money to foreign lenders I dont know how much off the top of my head but it is huge! We continue to borrow at an alarming rate. no significant spending cuts have been made in proportion to our debt.

QE3 and the prior 2 were en effort to artificially prop up our economy in addition to that we are artificially keeping interest-rates down which is creating another bubble . and by bubble i mean like the one that popped and caused the housing market crash except this time it wont be houses, IF it pops it will be our currency.



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28 Mar 2013, 11:06 pm

just-me wrote:
marshall wrote:
just-me wrote:
I have not read all 7 pages so forgive me if this has already been brought up.

If any threat were to occur it would probably most resemble the financial collapse of Germany formally know as the Weimar Republic.

In a nut shell they had a currency not directly linked to gold (same as the US). They printed money to pay for the debt owed to other country's. This devalued there own currency (just like the US) but we have done this to a lesser extent. Example, quantitative easing 1,2 and 3 aka QE3. (look it up)

They tried to create jobs to get the market going (just like US)

Eventually hyperinflation took effect leaving there currency worthless collapsing it.

People wanted change and politician promised it to them sadly
this man was Hitler.... I think you know the rest.

My reference is in the link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_the_Weimar_Republic


That comparison is also ludicrous. The problems of the Weimar Republic were largely due to the fact that the Allies made a deliberate effort to punish Germany economically for starting WWI. The debt they owed was largely not in their own currency.


The US situation is different but the similarity's are striking and the end result could be the same. By end result i mean hyper inflation and a currency collapse. we owe a huge sum of money to foreign lenders I dont know how much off the top of my head but it is huge! We continue to borrow at an alarming rate. no significant spending cuts have been made in proportion to our debt.

QE3 and the prior 2 were en effort to artificially prop up our economy in addition to that we are artificially keeping interest-rates down which is creating another bubble . and by bubble i mean like the one that popped and caused the housing market crash except this time it wont be houses, IF it pops it will be our currency.


To look at things objectively "huge" isn't very meaningful. Of course 15 trillion is huge compared to what an individual household makes but that is meaningless in the broader macro-economic picture. Total private debt in the US is still more than three times the federal government debt so the inordinate amount of focus on irresponsible government spending is kind of onerous and deceptive. The functions that are left to government are the things necessary to keep a country running but things no private business would ever want to be involved with because there isn't a profit motive. Also, the single biggest source of our debt is our outrageous healthcare costs. I'd say the system is outright fraudulent.



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29 Mar 2013, 12:17 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Obama is not a tyrant. The US is not going to crumble to pieces. I think you are fine going about your daily business as usual which includes college.


I'm not worried about Obama, he's fighting an uphill battle because of paranoid kooks like my dad. I am worried about those incredibly old men in congress and insane imbeciles like Rick Santorum.


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29 Mar 2013, 11:53 am

the United States is not an Empire. It is still a Republic. The Roman Republic morphed into the Roman Empire and the Empire went on until the 6 th century c.e. in the west and the 13 th century c..e. in the East. If we are going to do a reenactment we should become an Empire in the 22 nd or 23 rd century and end our Imperial phase sometime during the 28 th or 29 th century.

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29 Mar 2013, 1:06 pm

The US is an empire, it carves up the world into military zones. It claims sovereignty over the entire Earth.



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29 Mar 2013, 2:27 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The US is an empire, it carves up the world into military zones. It claims sovereignty over the entire Earth.


Nonsense. The U.S. own a few tiny islands outside its continental portion. We do not rule vast areas of the Earth as did the Imperium Romanum. As Imperialists go, the U.S. is pretty lame. The Romans and the Brits were much better at it.

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29 Mar 2013, 3:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The US is an empire, it carves up the world into military zones. It claims sovereignty over the entire Earth.


Nonsense. The U.S. own a few tiny islands outside its continental portion. We do not rule vast areas of the Earth as did the Imperium Romanum. As Imperialists go, the U.S. is pretty lame. The Romans and the Brits were much better at it.

ruveyn


The US is larger than the Roman Empire. But I agree it's not a real empire.



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29 Mar 2013, 4:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The US is an empire, it carves up the world into military zones. It claims sovereignty over the entire Earth.


Nonsense. The U.S. own a few tiny islands outside its continental portion. We do not rule vast areas of the Earth as did the Imperium Romanum. As Imperialists go, the U.S. is pretty lame. The Romans and the Brits were much better at it.

ruveyn


Incorrect. THe US military divides the world into Central Command, African Command, European Command, etc... the whole world is divided. When the US says "Leader X must go", that's a statement of sovereignty over said country. "

"We are the world's Organising Principle and the Indispensible Nation", said Madeleine Albright. "What we say goes in this New World Order we're trying to create and we mean it!", said George Herbert Walker Bush.



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29 Mar 2013, 5:30 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Incorrect. The US military divides the world into Central Command, African Command, European Command, etc... the whole world is divided. When the US says "Leader X must go", that's a statement of sovereignty over said country. "

"We are the world's Organising Principle and the Indispensible Nation", said Madeleine Albright. "What we say goes in this New World Order we're trying to create and we mean it!", said George Herbert Walker Bush.



That's hard to argue with, we have a habit of trying to spread our influence. But unlike empires, we don't levy taxes on the places we've influenced. We do business with them instead.

I don't think it's a good business model either.


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30 Mar 2013, 9:23 am

xenon13 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
The US is an empire, it carves up the world into military zones. It claims sovereignty over the entire Earth.


Nonsense. The U.S. own a few tiny islands outside its continental portion. We do not rule vast areas of the Earth as did the Imperium Romanum. As Imperialists go, the U.S. is pretty lame. The Romans and the Brits were much better at it.

ruveyn


Incorrect. THe US military divides the world into Central Command, African Command, European Command, etc... the whole world is divided. When the US says "Leader X must go", that's a statement of sovereignty over said country. "

"We are the world's Organising Principle and the Indispensible Nation", said Madeleine Albright. "What we say goes in this New World Order we're trying to create and we mean it!", said George Herbert Walker Bush.


We do note rule in these areas nor do we tax in these areas and we do not thoroughly occupy these areas.

What empire?

ruveyn



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30 Mar 2013, 11:34 am

The Aztecs also didn't have an empire if you use that definition. The US empire is a reality, they claim sovereignty over the entire world. What do you think "Who lost China" was all about? They still claim they should own it even to this day!