Will the US be like a rerun of the fall of the Roman Empire?

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xenon13
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30 Mar 2013, 11:34 am

The Aztecs also didn't have an empire if you use that definition. The US empire is a reality, they claim sovereignty over the entire world. What do you think "Who lost China" was all about? They still claim they should own it even to this day!



ruveyn
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30 Mar 2013, 1:08 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The Aztecs also didn't have an empire if you use that definition. The US empire is a reality, they claim sovereignty over the entire world. What do you think "Who lost China" was all about? They still claim they should own it even to this day!


It is the phrase used by cold-war crackpots. It is not national policy. The U.S. has made no move to conquer China. In fact we have borrowed money from China. Is that Imperialism?

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30 Mar 2013, 11:02 pm

If not repaid it is tribute.

We took dollars and gave bonds, so that China could join in world trade, such as buying oil, then $13 a barrel, now $100.

The Saudis are redeeming twenty year bonds for dollars that do not have near the buying power of 1993.

As producers or consumers they had no choice but to spend American dollars, which has driven down the dollar, and driven up gold, copper, iron, oil, just as the west reached market saturation.

China is building high speed rail to nowhere, tickets cost as much as flying, and there are new and empty buildings in the cities, and whole cities with no people. The cost of living there, riding the high speed rail, is more than a Chinese could afford.

What they are building is too expensive for their population, and a third of their population still lives in rural poverty.

In the cities they recycle computer boards by burning them in the street to drive off the lead, so they can recover the other metals, such as gold plated contacts. The air is thick with burning plastic, coal, industrial chemicals, and this will be a short lived generation, which is good, because they have no Social Security.

So we hooked them into buying large amounts of raw materials, with dollars, credit from the Bonds, and exported the lowest jobs we had, and the most dangerous. They look like a Client State, buying from us, taking our trash, and supporting the worldwide dollar.

China can build a new China, turn out more Doctorates than we have people, but 3-D Printing is going to replace most of what they export.

The automobile does not work when there are many people and few roads. Chinese production is turning all open space into a parking lot, including the roads.

The Saudi live behind walls, export oil, import slaves, and spend a lot to protect the Bank. They are threatened by a world that has developed oil production, has turned to natural gas, atomic, and it is not like they could switch to smart phones or computers.

Like everyone else in the region, they stocked up on US Mortgage Backed Securities, and Greek Bonds. Oil does not last forever, and there are a lot of other sellers now.

Europe also was taken in the market crash, their banks holding Mortgage Backed Securities, and the Stocks were bought back at the bottom of the market, and they still hold the Mortgages.

So like the Romans, we pillage the economies of the provinces. It is not direct tribute, but the result is the same, they pay to support our economy.

Occupation is expensive, all we want is their resources. As the Single World Reserve Currancy, we make the rules.

That defines an Empire as well as anything.



ruveyn
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31 Mar 2013, 10:06 am

the demise of the U.,S.A. will be more like the decline and fall of Athens in the Pelloponesian War.

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31 Mar 2013, 7:10 pm

Sadly, I can actually see this happening.



ruveyn
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31 Mar 2013, 9:49 pm

DarkRain wrote:
Sadly, I can actually see this happening.


Sadly, so do I. I study history and I am cursed with memory.

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31 Mar 2013, 9:51 pm

Inventor wrote:
If not repaid it is tribute.

We took dollars and gave bonds, so that China could join in world trade, such as buying oil, then $13 a barrel, now $100.

The Saudis are redeeming twenty year bonds for dollars that do not have near the buying power of 1993.

As producers or consumers they had no choice but to spend American dollars, which has driven down the dollar, and driven up gold, copper, iron, oil, just as the west reached market saturation.

China is building high speed rail to nowhere, tickets cost as much as flying, and there are new and empty buildings in the cities, and whole cities with no people. The cost of living there, riding the high speed rail, is more than a Chinese could afford.

What they are building is too expensive for their population, and a third of their population still lives in rural poverty.

In the cities they recycle computer boards by burning them in the street to drive off the lead, so they can recover the other metals, such as gold plated contacts. The air is thick with burning plastic, coal, industrial chemicals, and this will be a short lived generation, which is good, because they have no Social Security.

So we hooked them into buying large amounts of raw materials, with dollars, credit from the Bonds, and exported the lowest jobs we had, and the most dangerous. They look like a Client State, buying from us, taking our trash, and supporting the worldwide dollar.

China can build a new China, turn out more Doctorates than we have people, but 3-D Printing is going to replace most of what they export.

The automobile does not work when there are many people and few roads. Chinese production is turning all open space into a parking lot, including the roads.

The Saudi live behind walls, export oil, import slaves, and spend a lot to protect the Bank. They are threatened by a world that has developed oil production, has turned to natural gas, atomic, and it is not like they could switch to smart phones or computers.

Like everyone else in the region, they stocked up on US Mortgage Backed Securities, and Greek Bonds. Oil does not last forever, and there are a lot of other sellers now.

Europe also was taken in the market crash, their banks holding Mortgage Backed Securities, and the Stocks were bought back at the bottom of the market, and they still hold the Mortgages.

So like the Romans, we pillage the economies of the provinces. It is not direct tribute, but the result is the same, they pay to support our economy.

Occupation is expensive, all we want is their resources. As the Single World Reserve Currancy, we make the rules.

That defines an Empire as well as anything.


The Chinese are blowing economic bubbles and they will live to regret it. So will the U.S.

And the U.S. is not an Empire. It has become a beggar.

ruveyn



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01 Apr 2013, 3:33 am

A begger with a gun is called something else.

Also with a printing press, that reduces the value of outstanding dollars everywhere.

We Tax the World.



ruveyn
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01 Apr 2013, 10:01 am

Inventor wrote:
A begger with a gun is called something else.

Also with a printing press, that reduces the value of outstanding dollars everywhere.

We Tax the World.


Because the world voluntarily trades with us.

By the way, inflation does not work. Prices rise. The only advantage is that repayment of loans becomes easier. And no one is forced (by arms or threat thereof) to lend us money.

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xenon13
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01 Apr 2013, 7:19 pm

The US claims sovereignty over every single country on earth... they use weapons deployed everywhere to enforce this self-proclaimed sovereignty and use its control over such things as the IMF to that ends also. "We are the world's organising principle", said Madeleine Albright. Thus, everything is organised according to the US designs... with overarching bodies under US control. Countries that try to escape such are branded "pariahs", "rogue states" and subject to punishments. Most countries accept US domination.



MannyBoo
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01 Apr 2013, 8:09 pm

Interesting analogy, with some common points, but no rerun.



ruveyn
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02 Apr 2013, 4:48 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The US claims sovereignty over every single country on earth... they use weapons deployed everywhere to enforce this self-proclaimed sovereignty and use its control over such things as the IMF to that ends also. "We are the world's organising principle", said Madeleine Albright. Thus, everything is organised according to the US designs... with overarching bodies under US control. Countries that try to escape such are branded "pariahs", "rogue states" and subject to punishments. Most countries accept US domination.


Sovereignty is a legal claim. The U.S. makes no such claim as you said it makes.

Why do you exaggerate?

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xenon13
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02 Apr 2013, 11:43 pm

I do not exaggerate. Leader X must go. Country Y needs sanctions unless Leader X goes... We want bases in Country Z... And our Command HQ for the entire continent is in Country A and we can cover the whole area with drones... and so forth... Look what's going on with North Korea, the whole crisis began when the US insisted on buzzing that country with warplanes. Meanwhile, they insist that never will they speak to the leaders of that country as equals... Typical of an empire.



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04 Apr 2013, 2:06 am

The difference, Empires Win.

America has not. North Korea is pointing out that a State of War has existed for sixty years, with American troops stationed on their southern border.

Cuba stood up to the bully, so did Viet Nam. Daniel Ortega became President of Nicaragua.

Our problem, the weak who want to play tough, because they have a gang.

In our case the war industries own Congress, and war is good for business.

Both Patton and McArther had another vision of using war as a diplomatic tool. One wanted to nuke Russia, the other China, both who were our allies.

Iraq is now part of Iran, Afganistan knows the infidels are leaving, and Syria has been killing foreign fighters at an increasing rate.

They do hold a large part of the country the government is not trying to take back, as under the rules of war, they now have to feed the people, provide medical services, keep the water and lights on, and they fail at all of these things.

Their own side says they are dying by the thousands, most deaths are government troops and Jihadis. Those who fled, many from government and military posts, can never return. Those in Jordan, Turkey, may be there forever, for military aid came through both countries.

Russia, China, and Iran have stood firmly with Syria.

We are an economic empire for a while. As long as oil trades in dollars.

A Wall Street Empire, with no knowledge of what it takes to win.



ruveyn
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04 Apr 2013, 9:15 am

Inventor wrote:

A Wall Street Empire, with no knowledge of what it takes to win.


What is supporting Wall Street. People who know that they are doing. Our day is coming again.

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04 Apr 2013, 11:46 am

I better start making some togas then!


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