The Genetic Link Between Autism and ADHD

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Tambourine-Man
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15 Oct 2011, 11:17 pm

I recently read this article, which I found to be quite fascinating. I have a classic case of Asperger's or HFA. My father is ADHD, yet he has bouts of the characteristic Aspie perseveration. My sister also has ADHD, yet her sensory integration issues are nearly as bad as my own.

http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/autism ... ties-1787/


For many years I claimed to have a "life-threatening case of ADHD." As it turns out, it was AS all along.

I have taken a variety of stimulant medications, and have responded extremely well to many of them.

Methyphenediate (in the form of Ritalin, Concerta, Metadate and Daytranna): This is the one stimulant which I have a very negative reaction to. Ritalin makes me feel depressed, nervous and spacey. It also has an incredibly short half-life. I must dose IR Ritalin 5 separate times in order to achieve all day coverage. The XR formulations don't last much longer than the IR ones.

Vyvanse: This medication was quite effective... for a very brief period of time. I do not respond well to XR meds. They become inconsistent very quickly.

Adderall (both XR and IR): I found IR Adderall by Sandoz to be the most effective. Adderall greatly reduces my social anxiety, though I have found it to increase my physical anxiety overtime. Adderall was the medication that forever altered my outlook on life. I became outgoing, relaxed, motivated and productive. I liked myself for the first time in years. Before Adderall, I was depressed, confused and alone.

Dexedrine: I am currently taking Dexedrine IR (40mg per day) and, quite to my surprise, I find it to be more effective than Adderall. The Levo-Amphetamine in Adderall becomes physically taxing with longterm use. Dexedrine is every bit as therapeutically effective as Adderall, yet without the mildly troublesome PNS side-effects.

I often think medications like Dexedrine treat my Asperger Syndrome every bit as well as my ADHD symptoms. Has anyone else had a similiar response? And what do you guys think of the genetic links between autism and ADHD?


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cathylynn
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15 Oct 2011, 11:38 pm

i have AS, but definitely not ADHD. stimulants used as adjunctive rx for depression had a very bad effect on me.

i read the article. the link between AS and ADHD is not strong.



syrella
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16 Oct 2011, 12:53 am

My dad has classic ADHD. I have symptoms of it too, but leaning more on the inattentive side. The debate is still out about if I have HFA or not (probably I'm a borderline case). From all I've read, I definitely think that there is some connection between the two conditions. Most of the people I've met that actually have an ASD/autism diagnosis also have significant ADHD symptoms too. I know it's possible for the two to exist without the other, so they can't be too closely linked. But there is probably some significant amount of overlap which has yet to be fully investigated


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Verdandi
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16 Oct 2011, 2:09 am

syrella wrote:
My dad has classic ADHD. I have symptoms of it too, but leaning more on the inattentive side. The debate is still out about if I have HFA or not (probably I'm a borderline case). From all I've read, I definitely think that there is some connection between the two conditions. Most of the people I've met that actually have an ASD/autism diagnosis also have significant ADHD symptoms too. I know it's possible for the two to exist without the other, so they can't be too closely linked. But there is probably some significant amount of overlap which has yet to be fully investigated


I am too lazy to dig up links to support this right now, but studies have found a high correlation between autistic spectrum disorders and ADHD - to the degree of 65-75% of autistic people meet the criteria for ADHD as well.

There's a baseless assumption in some parts of the psychiatric community (and this is still taught in schools) that if you have ADHD symptoms and an ASD, then the ADHD symptoms are caused by ASD. There's no evidence for this, it's an interpretation that is a direct consequence of the DSM-IV ADHD criteria that states "does not happen in the course of a pervasive developmental disorder," which is to say you're not supposed to diagnose both in the same person. The DSM-5 does away with this.

It could be caused by the ASD. It could be part of the ASD. It could be linked, but otherwise separate.



Tambourine-Man
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16 Oct 2011, 11:32 am

Verdandi wrote:
syrella wrote:
My dad has classic ADHD. I have symptoms of it too, but leaning more on the inattentive side. The debate is still out about if I have HFA or not (probably I'm a borderline case). From all I've read, I definitely think that there is some connection between the two conditions. Most of the people I've met that actually have an ASD/autism diagnosis also have significant ADHD symptoms too. I know it's possible for the two to exist without the other, so they can't be too closely linked. But there is probably some significant amount of overlap which has yet to be fully investigated


I am too lazy to dig up links to support this right now, but studies have found a high correlation between autistic spectrum disorders and ADHD - to the degree of 65-75% of autistic people meet the criteria for ADHD as well.

There's a baseless assumption in some parts of the psychiatric community (and this is still taught in schools) that if you have ADHD symptoms and an ASD, then the ADHD symptoms are caused by ASD. There's no evidence for this, it's an interpretation that is a direct consequence of the DSM-IV ADHD criteria that states "does not happen in the course of a pervasive developmental disorder," which is to say you're not supposed to diagnose both in the same person. The DSM-5 does away with this.

It could be caused by the ASD. It could be part of the ASD. It could be linked, but otherwise separate.


This is what my shrink told me when he gave me the autism diagnosis and dropped the ADHD.


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Joe90
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16 Oct 2011, 11:42 am

I have AS but not ADHD.

But my friend has ADHD. I knew her since I was 7. She used to cover her ears at loud noises though. And I remember she used to make other children cry but without meaning to, and she never used to understand jokes, and she used to show happy emotions only, never sad emotions, because she always too hyperactive all the time.

She's actually worse now as she's got older, but she's on medication to calm it down a bit.


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07 Nov 2011, 7:40 am

I'm no expert beyond doing tons of research online and reading books. I expect Adhd will be declared to be in the spectrum eventually.
There are some differences(not as different as a child severely afflicted with autism is from one with high functioning autism) but there also is a lot in common,especially as far as treatment, biotreatment, goes. Resposes to omega 3,vitamin deficiencies, gluten and dairy sensitivities...



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07 Nov 2011, 9:56 am

I have definite ADHD symptoms. But a professional in the field evaluted me about five years ago and said I was just neurotic. He completely missed the ASD part.

I might be one of those cases that support the notion that the ASD "causes" the ADHD. One of the problems in the above testing was the environment was entirely atypical compared to day to day life. I was engaged in the task at hand and had very few distractions. But put me into a normal situation and I go right into some form of overload that exhibits itself as ADHD like symptoms.


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invisiblespectrum
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07 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm

I definitely have serious attention problems. I'm not sure if it's ADHD or (as a psychologist recently suggested to me) just massive amounts of anxiety.

I've definitely noticed some people with ADHD who have some pretty noticeable autistic traits. And obviously a lot of autistic people have ADHD traits or even meet the full criteria. The former is more surprising to me, though -- I never realized how common e.g. difficulties with social interaction are in people with ADHD.

It seems to me like there is some connection.

As far as genetics, I don't know anyone in my family who has been diagnosed with or really blatantly shows traits of either.



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07 Nov 2011, 1:25 pm

Tambourine-Man wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It could be caused by the ASD. It could be part of the ASD. It could be linked, but otherwise separate.


This is what my shrink told me when he gave me the autism diagnosis and dropped the ADHD.


Odd. I've been diagnosed with both. It's pretty stupid to think they MUST be either mutually exclusive or that ADHD is always part of ASD if you have ASD. Not helpful at all, since ASD criteria doesn't and never did include all ADHD symptoms.

How stupid.


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invisiblespectrum
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07 Nov 2011, 5:39 pm

The way the DSM-IV is written you indeed are not supposed to be diagnosed with both a PDD and ADHD. But it seems like lots of people are anyway.

The draft DSM-5 does away with this.



Surfman
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07 Nov 2011, 5:44 pm

Are you working for big pharma too?

From your linked article....

'....Twenty-two kids with ADHD had a CNV not found in healthy kids....'

'....Autism and its related disorders, whose symptoms include difficulty with social interactions and communication, affect approximately one of every 300 children......'

ADHD kids aint healthy? Only 1 in 300 are aspies? Meh

You should wipe that brown off your nose



MrXxx
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07 Nov 2011, 8:08 pm

invisiblespectrum wrote:
The way the DSM-IV is written you indeed are not supposed to be diagnosed with both a PDD and ADHD. But it seems like lots of people are anyway.

The draft DSM-5 does away with this.


This is not quite correct.

Quote:
E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).


This is directly from DSM-IV, on the official DSM-V site. The following link will take you there, but you'll have to click the DSM-IV tab at the top to see the current text.

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... x?rid=383#

"The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder..."

What this means is that the symptoms cannot ALL be explained by a PDD like AS or any other ASD in order to DX ADHD. In cases where not all are explained by a PDD, it is possible to gain both DX's, as I was for that reason.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Some symptoms of ADHD may occur that are not explained by a PDD. If there are enough of them, as well as enough to explain a PDD, you can be diagnosed with both.


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gramirez
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07 Nov 2011, 8:59 pm

I am going to be starting Adderall soon because I absolutely cannot function. I feel like I cannot turn my brain on and keep it on. I was diagnosed with ADHD before I was diagnosed with AS. I believe I have both, and I believe they are definitely linked.


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invisiblespectrum
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07 Nov 2011, 9:12 pm

MrXxx wrote:
"The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder..."

Perhaps I'm misreading this, but to me "during the course of" seems to refer to a time span, i.e., you cannot have ADHD and a PDD at the same time.



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07 Nov 2011, 10:06 pm

I don't have ADHD, and I only know one person with ADHD. I think that she has the inattentive type. She is not at all spectrummy, but like me, she could not make herself understood by the NT therapists either. They all thought that all her problems would disappear if she just made to-do lists and stuck to a routine. Meanwhile, they all thought that all my problems would disappear if I just stopped sticking to a routine.