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Why isn't Africa getting better?
Its geography isn't ideal 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Its geography isn't ideal 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Climate is harsh/unpredictable 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Climate is harsh/unpredictable 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
Its people are culturally inferior 6%  6%  [ 6 ]
Its people are culturally inferior 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
Its people are racially inferior 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Its people are racially inferior 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
The toxic legacy of colonialism 23%  23%  [ 23 ]
The toxic legacy of colonialism 26%  26%  [ 25 ]
Plain bad luck 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Plain bad luck 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Other 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
Other 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 98

donnie_darko
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01 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

My theory is that it's the geography and the unpredictable climate, lack of mountain glaciers and also all the desert and swampland.



Abgal64
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01 Dec 2011, 9:30 pm

I chose colonialism but I think it is equally true that many African peoples, not all, are too tribal and thus part of the reason why they are culturally inferior to peoples like the Chinese, the Quechua or Africa's own Amhara and Yoruba People, both of which are not really tribal and the latter of which have a long history of a highly urbanized culture.

The climate theory does not hold up: The climate of most of Africa, from the Congo basin and the forests of Guinea to the Swahili coast and the Ethiopian Highlands, is much more predictable than anywhere in Europe, let alone Britain or Germany, or even most of China. So your theory is simply incorrect.

As for the geography theory, I will just point out counter examples from similar climates around the globe. The Maya city-states and the Chola Empire, for example, were both in equatorial climates like most of Central Africa and Guinea, where such civilizations as Ife, Nri, the Benin Empire, the Nok Civilization, the Kingdom of Kongo and the Asante Empire flourished in precolonial times. The savannas of East and Southern Africa, the Ethiopian Highlands and the Sahel are similar in climate to the Persian Plateau and the northwestern Desi Subcontinent, the latter where the very early and extremely advanced Indus Civilization grew up; furthermore, these areas did indeed give rise to such great civilizations as the Ghana, Mali and Songhai Empires in the Sahel and the Shona Kingdom and the Swahili trading states in Southern and East Africa, respectively, along with Ethiopia and its Aksumite predecessor. And the deserts at the southern end of the continent, which gave rise to the famed Zulu Empire, are certainly less forbidding than the Sahara on the other end of the continent, where of course Nubia and Egypt arose.


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Awesomelyglorious
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01 Dec 2011, 9:37 pm

Legacy of colonialism is probably one of the better answers from the list.... really though, it's just that African governance has been terrible. We can blame this on colonialism(I wouldn't), but really, Africa is pretty corrupt, it has a very significant degree of political instability, also many African leaders have chosen poor economic policies.

Really though, yeah, I blame political factors, and that's really not exactly on the list, so I sided with other. (Institutional factors are related to political issues, and yeah, those are also a problem)

I will admit that the disease issues in Africa probably also do not help, as malaria and AIDS are not good in the situation.



bucephalus
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01 Dec 2011, 10:12 pm

hmmm, not the best choice of words for a thread title. I suppose the climate and vast mass of land has something to do with any problems the continent has. There is an island there somewhere that has even more lightning than Florida. Surely that alone gives Africa some plus points


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01 Dec 2011, 10:13 pm

Any more partially informed, generalized worldview threads for us today? :D


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bucephalus
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01 Dec 2011, 10:28 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Any more partially informed, generalized worldview threads for us today? :D


Hey, I need this bitesized PPR to make posts. The regular stuff is too in depth for me to post in :S


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01 Dec 2011, 11:18 pm

Nascent Christianity?


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Icyclan
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01 Dec 2011, 11:21 pm

Africa wasn't exactly a continent of great thinkers before colonization. As far as climate goes, Australia is scorching hot too and they're doing alright. Iceland's climate is less than ideal as well and they have very infertile soil to boot. Climate isn't that much of an issue as it is made out to be.

Read The Bell Curve. Africans tend to have lower IQs and higher testosterone compared to most other races. they also tend to be more opportunistic than most other races; This causes anarchy and creates tribal societies with a survival of the fittest mentality. Add to that a lack of education and severe overpopulation and you have a perfect breeding ground for violence and poverty. The continued aid will only sustain this and create more mouths to feed in the future.

This is of course the politically incorrect explanation, but it is what it is.



blauSamstag
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01 Dec 2011, 11:35 pm

Abgal64 wrote:
I chose colonialism but I think it is equally true that many African peoples, not all, are too tribal and thus part of the reason why they are culturally inferior to peoples like the Chinese, the Quechua or Africa's own Amhara and Yoruba People, both of which are not really tribal and the latter of which have a long history of a highly urbanized culture.


Wow, you don't think the Han culture is tribal in nature?

Han chinese are some of the most racist people i've ever met. They just have the luxury of being an overwhelming majority in their region.

Nice people, generally - I like both of my Han coworkers - but their attitude of superiority over other cultures is striking to say the least.



shrox
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01 Dec 2011, 11:44 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
My theory is that it's the geography and the unpredictable climate, lack of mountain glaciers and also all the desert and swampland.


Sounds like the USA.



blauSamstag
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02 Dec 2011, 12:01 am

Icyclan wrote:
Read The Bell Curve. Africans tend to have lower IQs and higher testosterone compared to most other races. they also tend to be more opportunistic than most other races; This causes anarchy and creates tribal societies with a survival of the fittest mentality. Add to that a lack of education and severe overpopulation and you have a perfect breeding ground for violence and poverty. The continued aid will only sustain this and create more mouths to feed in the future.

This is of course the politically incorrect explanation, but it is what it is.


I'm curious how much detail they go into regarding how they determined the IQ of africans. That sounds like the sort of thing that is easily culturally influenced.



Master_Pedant
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02 Dec 2011, 12:09 am

Icyclan wrote:
Africa wasn't exactly a continent of great thinkers before colonization. As far as climate goes, Australia is scorching hot too and they're doing alright. Iceland's climate is less than ideal as well and they have very infertile soil to boot. Climate isn't that much of an issue as it is made out to be.

Read The Bell Curve. Africans tend to have lower IQs and higher testosterone compared to most other races. they also tend to be more opportunistic than most other races; This causes anarchy and creates tribal societies with a survival of the fittest mentality. Add to that a lack of education and severe overpopulation and you have a perfect breeding ground for violence and poverty. The continued aid will only sustain this and create more mouths to feed in the future.

This is of course the politically incorrect explanation, but it is what it is.


Ah. The infamous appeal to political incorrectness, if it's rude, offensive and racist (BUT NOT AGAINST MY RACE!! !) then it MUST be right!

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When European immigrant groups in the United States scored below the national average on mental tests, they scored lowest on the abstract parts of those tests. So did white mountaineer children in the United States tested back in the early 1930s... Strangely, Herrnstein and Murray refer to "folklore" that "Jews and other immigrant groups were thought to be below average in intelligence." It was neither folklore nor anything as subjective as thoughts. It was based on hard data, as hard as any data in The Bell Curve. These groups repeatedly tested below average on the mental tests of the World War I era, both in the army and in civilian life. For Jews, it is clear that later tests showed radically different results—during an era when there was very little intermarriage to change the genetic makeup of American Jews.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_C ... telligence

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ruveyn
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02 Dec 2011, 7:58 am

donnie_darko wrote:
My theory is that it's the geography and the unpredictable climate, lack of mountain glaciers and also all the desert and swampland.


How did the Egyptians manage so well?

They used the one resource, the Nile, to the maximum extent their technology permitted.

If Inuit can survive near the North Pole or Siberia, why is Africa unmanagable.

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02 Dec 2011, 8:21 am

Because they can't run a whelk stall. The legacy of colonialism doesn't have a lot to do with it. They still behave like barbarians in a lot of the continent.



zer0netgain
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02 Dec 2011, 9:10 am

To keep it very short, the reason Africa is so boned is one of geography. Europe became a world power because there was lots of east-west movement they could do for colonization and growth. This meant their crops, their animals, etc. could be relocated with little problem in adaptation. Peoples located on continents with nothing but north-south movement don't develop and expand well because north-south movement brings climate changes that force you to relearn crops and animals for providing basic needs.

Every nation with east-west expansion options could build it's necessities and invest in expansion and conquest. Every nation limited to north-south expansion was limited by comparison.

Add to that the fact that most every culture, to some degree, will breed like rats until disease, famine, war, etc. culls the numbers back to something manageable, and you can see why Africans are so screwed. No real ability to expand and grow into similar climate regions and they never seemed to learn that controlling population growth was critical to the overall quality of life for all.



ruveyn
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02 Dec 2011, 9:44 am

zer0netgain wrote:
To keep it very short, the reason Africa is so boned is one of geography. Europe became a world power because there was lots of east-west movement they could do for colonization and growth. This meant their crops, their animals, etc. could be relocated with little problem in adaptation. Peoples located on continents with nothing but north-south movement don't develop and expand well because north-south movement brings climate changes that force you to relearn crops and animals for providing basic needs.

Every nation with east-west expansion options could build it's necessities and invest in expansion and conquest. Every nation limited to north-south expansion was limited by comparison.

Add to that the fact that most every culture, to some degree, will breed like rats until disease, famine, war, etc. culls the numbers back to something manageable, and you can see why Africans are so screwed. No real ability to expand and grow into similar climate regions and they never seemed to learn that controlling population growth was critical to the overall quality of life for all.


So why were the cradles of civilization located on north-south flowing rivers. The Nile. Tigris-Euphrates.

Greece has barrier mountains to east-west travel but civilization flourished there.

Asia east of the Caucuses is six time zones wide. Why didn't civilization flourish there?

ruveyn