Should Herman Cain be prosecuted under the Mann Act?

Page 2 of 3 [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Should Herman Cain be prosecuted for violating the Mann Act?
Yes 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
No 55%  55%  [ 6 ]
Just show the results 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 11

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

06 Dec 2011, 2:52 pm

pandabear wrote:
You're a clever lawyer indeed.


Actually, I'm related to clever lawyers, though the jargon and construction tends to be contagious.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

06 Dec 2011, 3:52 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Still, the Law is the Law, and no-one can deny that Mr. Cain violated the Law.


How could he have violated the law when there is evidence to suggest that the affair didn't even take place to begin with.

Someone undergoing chemo like that isn't likely to be able to have an affair, much less if they've had surgery on top of the chemo.


Dude, do you know anybody who has had cancer?

The chemo increases the probability that they would have an affair. The emotional and psychological pressure is tremendous. People eject spouses from their lives over it.


Typically the one having the affair isn't the one undergoing chemo, seriously I highly doubt Herman Cain would have been able to have an affair between the chemo, the surgeries, etc.


Plus, we haven't even considered the kind of life-changing (as in clean-up-your-life) effects such near-death experiences often have on people. I would surmise that few Christians recover from a long Stage IV cancer ordeal -- a "deathbed" type situation -- and then say, "Okay, now back to lying to my wife and continuing my extra-marital affair! Sorry I'm going to break all those recent promises, God!" I mean, look at that type of situation realistically in your mind's eye before you judge; even Aspies can do this, even though it involves some social analysis and prediction.


Additionally look at where he would have been cut open during surgery would have been the abdominal area. Seriously you're not supposed to engage in anything strenuous after surgery.



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

06 Dec 2011, 5:01 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Additionally look at where he would have been cut open during surgery would have been the abdominal area. Seriously you're not supposed to engage in anything strenuous after surgery.


Merely chuckling softly sent shooting pains through my abdomen just after I had my appendectomy.

I wonder how ol' Ginger's bank account is doing right about now? She's always struggled financially -- that's why she kept trying to leech onto Herman (the majority of 70+ text messages between them consisted of her asking him for money) -- but something tells me it's clear blue skies ahead for her financially, now that she's probably done someone's bidding in speaking out against Cain with her whopper of a story. He strongly suspects this, and I'd tend to agree. Why else would she do it? She had to have something to gain, and she's always in need of money. (NINE, yes NINE liens on her house in the past year alone!)


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

06 Dec 2011, 5:05 pm

Sorry, but the argument that Herman Cain was impotent from 1996 through 2011 because he underwent treatment and surgery during 2005 just isn't credible.

Her story first appeared on Fox News, which automatically makes it true, no matter what.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/gi ... 0111127-es

Fox News wrote:
ATLANTA, Ga. - An Atlanta businesswoman is breaking her silence, claiming she has been involved in a 13-year-long affair with Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain. Over the Thanksgiving weekend, FOX 5 senior I-Team reporter Dale Russell sat down with Ginger White, who had a story to tell.

“I'm not proud,” White told Russell. “I didn't want to come out with this. I did not.” White was worried a political tsunami was headed her way. So, she decided to head it off, by confessing she was involved in a 13-year-long affair with presidential hopeful Herman Cain....

She says she planned on keeping the relationship a secret while Cain made his run for the White House until she and her family watched reports of different women who had accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment. She says she was not surprised by the allegations, but was bothered by the way Cain fought back, attacking the woman, including during an appearance on Late Show with David Letterman. “It bothered me that they were being demonized, sort of, they were treated as if they were automatically lying, and the burden of proof was on them,” White said. “I felt bad for them.”

We received a phone tip from someone who knew Ginger White. That person claimed Ms. White was having an affair with Herman Cain. The tipster also called a number of other national media outlets who reached out to her. White told FOX 5, she felt trapped.

“I wanted to give my side, before it was thrown out there and made out to be something filthy,” said White. “Some people will look at this and say that is exactly what it is. I'm sorry for that.”


An unnamed tipster, who knew about Herman's adultery with Ginger, contacted Fox News, and Fox News subsequently came to her.

More details from Fox:

Quote:
“It was pretty simple,” White said. “It wasn't complicated. I was aware that he was married. And I was also aware I was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship.”

Ginger White says she met Herman Cain in the late 90s in Louisville, Kentucky, when as president of the National Restaurant Association, he made a presentation. She was impressed. She says they shared drinks afterwards and he invited her back to his hotel room. “’I'd like to see you again,’” White said Cain told her. “’You are beautiful to me, and I would love for us to continue this friendship.’”

She says in his hotel room, he pulled out a calendar and invited her to meet him in Palm Springs. She accepted, and she says the affair began.

“He made it very intriguing,” White told FOX 5. “It was fun. It was something that took me away from my humdrum life at the time. And it was exciting.” She says he gave her his newly-published book, Leadership is Common Sense, and he wrote: “Miss G, you have already made a 'big difference!’ Stay focused as you pursue your next destination."

She says during the next 13 years, he would fly her to cities where he was speaking and he lavished her with gifts. She says they often stayed at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead and dined at The Four Seasons restaurant. She says he never harassed her, never treated her poorly, and was the same man you see on the campaign trail.

“Very much the same, very much confident, very much sure of himself,” White said, describing Cain. “Very arrogant in a playful sometimes way. Very, ah -- Herman Cain loves Herman Cain.”

When his new book, CEO of SELF, came out in 2001, she says Cain once again autographed it for her writing, "'Friends are forever! Everything else is a bonus.'"

When asked if it was fair to say the relationship is going on even now, White said, “I think it is safe to say that after this interview, that will be the end of it. Yes, we have a friendship now.”

She says the physical relationship ended about eight months ago, right before Cain announced he was running for president. But the communication did not. When we asked for any corroborating evidence, she pointed us to her cell phone contacts. One name: Herman Cain.

She showed us some of her cell phone bills that included 61 phone calls or text messages to or from a number starting with 678. She says it is Herman Cain's private cell phone. The calls were made during four different months-- calls or texts made as early as 4:26 in the early morning, and as late as 7:52 at night. The latest were in September of this year.

“We've never worked together,” said White. “And I can't imagine someone phoning or texting me for the last two and a half years, just because.”

We texted the number and Herman Cain called us back. He told us he "knew Ginger White" but said these are "more false allegations." He said she had his number because he was "trying to help her financially.”


Note that Herman didn't deny having coitus with her, and neither did his lawyer:

Herman Cain's Lawyer wrote:
"Mr. Cain has been informed today that your television station plans to broadcast a story this evening in which a female will make an accusation that she engaged in a 13-year long physical relationship with Mr. Cain. This is not an accusation of harassment in the workplace – this is not an accusation of an assault - which are subject matters of legitimate inquiry to a political candidate.

Rather, this appears to be an accusation of private, alleged consensual conduct between adults - a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public. No individual, whether a private citizen, a candidate for public office or a public official, should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. The public's right to know and the media's right to report has boundaries and most certainly those boundaries end outside of one's bedroom door.

Mr. Cain has alerted his wife to this new accusation and discussed it with her. He has no obligation to discuss these types of accusations publicly with the media and he will not do so even if his principled position is viewed unfavorably by members of the media."



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

07 Dec 2011, 11:15 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Still, the Law is the Law, and no-one can deny that Mr. Cain violated the Law.


How could he have violated the law when there is evidence to suggest that the affair didn't even take place to begin with.

Someone undergoing chemo like that isn't likely to be able to have an affair, much less if they've had surgery on top of the chemo.


Dude, do you know anybody who has had cancer?

The chemo increases the probability that they would have an affair. The emotional and psychological pressure is tremendous. People eject spouses from their lives over it.


Typically the one having the affair isn't the one undergoing chemo, seriously I highly doubt Herman Cain would have been able to have an affair between the chemo, the surgeries, etc.


Plus, we haven't even considered the kind of life-changing (as in clean-up-your-life) effects such near-death experiences often have on people. I would surmise that few Christians recover from a long Stage IV cancer ordeal -- a "deathbed" type situation -- and then say, "Okay, now back to lying to my wife and continuing my extra-marital affair! Sorry I'm going to break all those recent promises, God!" I mean, look at that type of situation realistically in your mind's eye before you judge; even Aspies can do this, even though it involves some social analysis and prediction.


Additionally look at where he would have been cut open during surgery would have been the abdominal area. Seriously you're not supposed to engage in anything strenuous after surgery.


You guys really remind me of Sheldon in this season's first episode of The Big Bang Theory.

http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theor ... x-analysis



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

07 Dec 2011, 11:57 am

pandabear wrote:
Note that Herman didn't deny having coitus with her, and neither did his lawyer:


I see you missed the Wolf Blitzer interview, then. You may find it in the OP of my Cain-accused-again thread, in which you have posted many times.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

07 Dec 2011, 4:53 pm

Ragtime wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Note that Herman didn't deny having coitus with her, and neither did his lawyer:


I see you missed the Wolf Blitzer interview, then. You may find it in the OP of my Cain-accused-again thread, in which you have posted many times.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_c1

First of all, this is the ultra-Liberal Wolf Blitzer, appearing with Herman on Marxist-Leninist CNN, just before Ginger gives her speal on the hallowed and true Fox News. How can you watch this? Aren't you afraid that your dick might fall off?

Second of all, the man is a millionaire. No-one becomes a millionaire through honesty and hard work. Honesty and hard work are for the proletarians. You become a millionaire either by lying, cheating and bullying, or you inherit the money from someone who lied, cheated and bullied. How can anyone believe this rich twit?

Interesting. He is obviously quite desperate at this point. Getting Wolf Blitzer to interview him for a Communist-Liberal audience that won't be voting Repugnican anyway.

He starts out claiming that he and his attorney had determined that the prior accusations were "baseless" because "they couldn't find any documentation, any proof, or anything that is credible." That is completely false. The settlement agreements and money paid to his victims at the NRA were certainly credible documentation.

Then he claims that he "doesn't have anything to hide" and will "address every one of the details when they come out."

He certainly never "addressed every one of the details" when they came out. Instead, he suspended his candidacy, so that he wouldn't have to address the details.

Obviously, he knows that he committed a felony, and that the whole world knows it, and he wants to avoid prosecution and prison.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

07 Dec 2011, 7:51 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... d-sex.html

Quote:
...For White, an Atlanta single mother of two, the cost of telling her story has been devastating; so far, she said it has included her job, her privacy, and the financial support that Cain acknowledged having given her. “My coming out has caused me to have no more money from Herman Cain and no offers of help from anyone,” she said.

L. Lin Wood, Cain’s attorney, acknowledged that his client had given White money up until very recently.... “He gave her some money within probably a week or ten days of when she decided to go public.”....

Indeed, it was Cain’s public disparagement of those women that triggered White’s decision to talk, she said. “I wasn’t surprised when women came out with sexual harassment allegations,” White said. “My initial reaction was, ‘They’re not lying,’ because he feels as if he can approach any women, say whatever he wants to say, and they’re going to be OK with that, just because he’s Herman Cain. He’s very sure of himself. He has this arrogance about him. He feels as if, when he walks across the room, all eyes are upon him. Herman Cain loves Herman Cain.”

“I think anyone who has had the opportunity to meet Mr. Cain would not disagree with that general description,” said Wood....

But White said she was deeply upset when Cain denied the women’s charges and insisted that all of his accusers were lying. “I felt really bad for them,” she said. “I thought, Should I speak out? But I never in a million years thought I would come forward. I didn’t have receipts or any of the things people have been asking me for; it was his word against mine.”

Although she said she intended to remain silent about their relationship, White’s hand was ultimately forced when someone else—her lawyer said she’s not sure who—tipped off media outlets. “Unfortunately, it was leaked,” White said. “We were seen at a function or two; people put two and two together. I was getting lots of phone calls: ‘Can you tell me about your relationship with Herman Cain?’ As bad as this whole situation was, I wanted to give my side of the story. I didn’t want someone else to come out with their own version. I wanted to do it on my own terms.”

According to White, who is 46 and has been divorced three times, her relationship with Cain began while she was legally separated from her first husband, John White, the father of her two children. When she met Cain at an event in Louisville, where she lived at the time, he was as bold as he was seductive, she said....

“I was pretty amazed at how a person could just come up to you at a cocktail party, and an hour and a half later he wanted me to follow him to his hotel room to plan our first trip to Palm Springs,” said White, who was then working as a clerk at a transportation company. “It was intriguing. He was a good speaker, he told a lot of jokes, and I thought he was very intelligent and funny. He was very flirtatious, and he complimented me a lot. I was excited; I came home and told my mother, and I told my sisters when he phoned me the next day. I had to make arrangements for my kids, and my sisters were going to babysit.”...


From the outset, according to White, her relationship with Cain was “pretty straightforward—trips, dinner, drinks, sex, and that was it,” she said. “I saw him the most at the beginning, at least one trip a month for several months.”...


Although Cain has been married for 43 years, the subject of his wife almost never came up, said White, who has never met Gloria Cain. “I knew he was married; he had his wedding band on,” she said. “But not until maybe our fourth trip did he even admit he had kids or mention his wife. That’s why I’ve been able to not think about it all these years. This wasn’t a person I heard him talk to on the phone; no ‘Hey, excuse me, I have to take a call from my wife.’ For a long time, she was a person who didn’t really exist, even though I knew she did. It was almost like she was a ghost wife.”


Last week, when MSNBC host Lawrence O’Donnell asked White about Gloria Cain, White apologized on the air for her affair with Herman Cain. But in general, White sees such wives as engaging in willful self-denial, she said. “I think certain women see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear,” she said on Saturday night. “I would be surprised if some of these wives are surprised to know what their husbands were doing. Women have intuition. I think a lot of women are comfortable, and they don’t want to realize if they’re being cheated on. I don’t think a lot of women want to face up to that.”


But White had no illusions about her relationship with Cain, she said. “Never was I in love with him,” she said. “In the beginning I was naive and intrigued by this person. Initially it was exciting, but when I started knowing who he was, it became less and less fun. The more time I spent around him and the more trips we took, I started liking him less. He was very flirtatious with other women when we were out together and very chauvinistic at times. I would say something about corporate America or sexual harassment in the workplace, or something about men and women, and he would give me the impression that he thought the man was always right. When I got involved with a sexual harassment case, he said, ‘Are you sure you want to do that, because you’re going to lose your job.’ I said, ‘Yes, absolutely I do.’”...

Between Cain and White, the playing field apparently was never level, and White said she was realistic about her alleged status as his mistress. “I didn’t know, but I felt that I definitely was not the only one,” she said. “Honestly, I didn’t care about it. I didn’t think about it.”....


White said that over the years, her arrangement with Cain took an emotional toll. “One time we were having sex, and I was looking up at the ceiling, thinking about, ‘What am I going to buy at the grocery store tomorrow? What am I going to do with my kids tomorrow?’” she recalled. “One time after we had sex, I cried. He said, ‘Maybe we shouldn’t do this for a while.’ So maybe he did have a heart—or half a heart. But I knew I needed his financial help.”


Although White said her relationship with Cain spanned 13 years, she described it as intermittent; she stopped seeing him during her second and third marriages, each of which lasted around a year and a half and ended in divorce. “I never cheated on a husband,” she said. “I’m a very loyal person."

In between marriages, however, she turned to Cain for support, and he began giving her money early in their relationship, she said. “I didn’t ask, but he did understand my situation: I was getting divorced, and I had two small kids. He would send me extra cash and things like that,” she said. “When he first started, it was pretty sporadic, but the last 2 1/2 years, there was consistent financial help every month. It was ‘Here’s something to help with this; here’s something to help with that.’ I was appreciative of that. I said thank you, every time. But I think every time he had sex with me, he was getting a lot more than I was getting.”...

I think Herman helped me out financially because it meant I could be there if he ever needed to have another fling. He just kept me close. He knew that as long as he was helping me, if he wanted to phone me and say, ‘Meet me here,’ I would, solely out of obligation.”...

“It’s never been political with Herman and I. But all of a sudden, probably two months before he announced, he said, ‘I think I’m going to run for president.’ I said, ‘You’re running for president? I guess we won’t be friends anymore.’ He said, ‘No, I don’t think so.’ I guess I was wanting to define our friendship: Are we really friends, or is this just a very casual affair? He was pretty much confirming, ‘No, we won’t be friends.’ It just confirmed what I already felt. It wasn’t a love affair. It wasn’t even a friendship, really.”



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

11 Dec 2011, 9:35 am

Image

Image