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AspieRoss
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08 Dec 2011, 11:42 am

Jesus actually liked cripples and lepers so much, that he spent MOST of his time on earth with them.

I wish people would stop giving any Media attention to that misguided bigot from the Westboro church.



Burnbridge
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08 Dec 2011, 12:44 pm

AspieRoss wrote:
How many of you PRO-LIFE People are against the wars? against the death penalty? against forced vaccinations/drugging by the state?


Likewise you could ask how many pro-choicers are against wars, death penalty, etc.

That is actually not a contradiction. For "conservatives," it comes from a patriarchical model of family governance: father know best, obey him, if you mess up you will be punished so you will learn to do the right thing next time. For "liberals," it comes from the nurturing model of family: parents support the child, and forgive them even when they mess up, try to gently teach and guide them to do the right thing next time of their own volition. "Moderates" use both of these techniques, sometimes one, sometimes the other.

WRT abortion: the Patriarch model says "you messed up, pay the price by taking responsibility and raising the child. The Nurturing model says: "it is awful this happened, you should have a chance to start over."

WRT to capital punishment: the Nurturing model says: "You should have a chance to learn why what you did is wrong, and reform yourself." The Patriarch model says: "you messed up. accept your punishment and serve as a deterrent to other wrongdoers."

WRT vaccinations: Partiarchy says: "we know better than you and you should trust us and obey for your own good." Nurturing says: "for good or ill, you should be able to choose what happens to your body, even if it means becoming a disease carrier that might infect other people."

Not contradictory at all, seen from this perspective.

Fundamentalists are rather firmly in the partiarch camp. "God told us what to do, obey His laws, or suffer the punishment you deserve."


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Horus
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08 Dec 2011, 4:00 pm

phil777 wrote:
Horus wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Horus wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
Is birth control a sin and wrong ? Is sex only for procreation ? Is birth control like abortion ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control



No.....procreation is.

Both birth control and abortion (at any time, for any reason....punch a late-term fetus for Jesus :D )....are gifts from the Ancient Ones who rightfully want nothing more than to see even the memory of humankind's existence wiped from the cosmos.


Just a friendly reminder from your local anti-natalist misanthrope. :wink:


Horus! You're back. :D




I am surprised anyone remembers me. :)

It's been many moons. I have much to say as soon as I can find the time to say it. I've actually been employed for nearly a year now after 18 months of unemployment.

Hope you are well!! ! :D



-remembers the Horus- Oh and... Aren't you from Egypt or somewhere like that? :O I think you had posted your picture long ago.


Hahahaha.....no....I am not from Egypt. I did post my picture and since I have a dark, Mediterranean complexion, ( I am Italian, Serbian and Ashkenazi Jewish and I live in South Florida) I suppose I could be mistaken for an Egyptian. I chose the name "Horus" more out of my fascination with ancient cultures, mythology, mysticism, occultism (Aleister Crowley referred to our age as "The Aeon of Horus") and all that jazz.

Cheers!! ! :D


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AngelRho
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08 Dec 2011, 9:59 pm

TheKing wrote:
actually you didn't ask about homosexuals you asked about cripples

I asked about both, actually. See page 2:

AngelRho wrote:
TheKing wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I don't think birth control is a sin. But neither do I think that for Christians it's really the best option. In most religions, the single best way of ensuring the continuation of the faith is to have children and teach them the scriptures. Children are most likely to be receptive to the tenets of any faith if they start learning at a young age and see the same faith lived out in their parents' lives. It is not quite so easy to get someone to convert later in life, though it does often happen.



teach them the scriptures? anything but that!

we were debating gays in the military today in my economy class and one girl tried suggesting its wrong because America is based in Christianity and the forefathers wanted us to follow scriptures which involved killing homosexuals and cripples as the bible demands even though in truth America is a Secular nation as George Washington himself even said and America believes in Equallity for ALL men which the bible is against

Sounds like that girl doesn't really know what she's talking about.

I do think that the forefathers built our nation on Christian principles. But also keep in mind they were also children of the Enlightenment. So it's not JUST about Christian values. It's more complicated than that.

I don't get where the Bible is against "Equality for ALL." Ecclesiastes teaches that Sheol is the fate of the rich man and the poor man. When the disciples argued about who would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, Jesus told them that in order to be the greatest, you must first become the least. Also, the greatest on earth would be the least in heaven. So... How can the greatest (richest) on earth become the least and the least (poorest) on earth be the greatest in heaven if they all share in God's providence? It's not a competition. Christians are to be servants to each other and not show favoritism. And if all brothers and sisters in Christ are servants and children of God the Father, then we are all equals before God. Clearly the Bible does teach equality.

Killing homosexuals is Hebrew law for the purpose of an Israelite theocracy. That has nothing to do with Gentiles/Christians.

Killing cripples? Where is that in the Bible at all? The only thing about cripples is that they are ritually unclean for the purpose of serving in the temple. That doesn't make them outcasts of society. And...again...that's Hebrew ceremonial law. That's not for Christians.

Advice against homosexuality in the NT has to do with moral behavior that is acceptable for Christians. If you don't like that homosexuality is considered wrong, then that's your issue. I can't help you with that one. But where is it written in the NT that Jesus instructed His followers to kill homosexuals?

In bold.

All you have been able to prove so far is that ritually unclean people were forbidden to approach certain areas of the tabernacle/temple. That's all. You have not demonstrated that in any way God hates anyone for being sinners OR for being imperfect, whether they become impure by deliberate sinful actions, whether they are born that way, or whether they become impure for reasons beyond their control. As I recall even Aaron the high priest was prevented from offering sacrifices due to a death in the family. And even in the event that things happen, as they do, there are other rituals through which the unclean may be declared clean and can resume religious activities. Even when Jesus healed the unclean, He commanded them to present themselves to the priests in order to satisfy the requirements of the Levitical law. So if this is what you're going by, you're only proving that God, while demanding only the best in the way of worship and service, is still a loving and merciful God who loves and cares for His people in spite of their condition.

Now, that's all well and good for the ancient Israelites. But what about Christians? Christians are not Jews (though Jews are welcome as well as Gentiles, and there are Jews who are also Christians), so we are subject to the laws and customs of the societies in which we live. The little civil disobedience we are allowed by tradition has to do with the refusal to compromise our faith. The NT serves as a guide for proper behavior of Christians as well as a guide for correct doctrine.

Where in the NT, particularly the gospels, does Jesus command His disciples to kill the people you mentioned? Could be homosexuals, could be cripples, could be any kind of sinner you can think of. Still waiting...



phil777
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09 Dec 2011, 12:47 am

Horus wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Horus wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Horus wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
Is birth control a sin and wrong ? Is sex only for procreation ? Is birth control like abortion ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control



No.....procreation is.

Both birth control and abortion (at any time, for any reason....punch a late-term fetus for Jesus :D )....are gifts from the Ancient Ones who rightfully want nothing more than to see even the memory of humankind's existence wiped from the cosmos.


Just a friendly reminder from your local anti-natalist misanthrope. :wink:


Horus! You're back. :D




I am surprised anyone remembers me. :)

It's been many moons. I have much to say as soon as I can find the time to say it. I've actually been employed for nearly a year now after 18 months of unemployment.

Hope you are well!! ! :D



-remembers the Horus- Oh and... Aren't you from Egypt or somewhere like that? :O I think you had posted your picture long ago.


Hahahaha.....no....I am not from Egypt. I did post my picture and since I have a dark, Mediterranean complexion, ( I am Italian, Serbian and Ashkenazi Jewish and I live in South Florida) I suppose I could be mistaken for an Egyptian. I chose the name "Horus" more out of my fascination with ancient cultures, mythology, mysticism, occultism (Aleister Crowley referred to our age as "The Aeon of Horus") and all that jazz.

Cheers!! ! :D


Oh. Ok. :p I just remember reading that people that had commented on your picture "thought" you were egyptian, so maybe that stuck. And the name surely didn't help me. ^.^;



godoftruemercy
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09 Dec 2011, 3:00 am

Nope. My birth control is preserving my fertility, and the person who tries to take it away from me will be a very sorry fundie. Also, hells no am I having a kid at 20 like this is the 18th century.



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09 Dec 2011, 3:49 am

Ragtime wrote:
A microscopic tadpole, with half the chromosomes necessary to make a human, with an outboard motor.
I don't consider that a human, and I'm not even sure I consider it alive.

.


It has half of what it takes to be a living thing. Any organic thing that can maintain its thermodynamic state far from equilibrium for a significant period of time has one of the characteristics of a living thing. The other is the ability to replicate. Sperm cells (and eggs) cannot replicate themselves. Together they make a thing that can replicate itself.

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10 Dec 2011, 2:52 pm

Quote:
Attention Right-to-Lifers:

If birth control is wrong, because you are playing god by not fertilizing an egg that "god" wants to become a child..
THEN so is Invitro-Fertilization!
*May be god doesn't want you to get pregnant, and getting invitro is AGAINST his/her will!



Actually, AspieRoss, I think the Catholic Church is pro-life AND against in-vitro fertilization. So yes, some pro-lifers are also opposed to IVF.



NextFact
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11 Dec 2011, 7:12 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Further, 300 million of them die during every ejaculation, even when attempting pregnancy. We can debate whether or not God considers those 300 million sperm to be 300 million human beings dying during every male orgasm


I've killed trillions of human beings.



Rax
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12 Dec 2011, 7:37 am

No, it is not a sin and no argument will change your or my mind.


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