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MCalavera
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07 Dec 2011, 10:00 pm

TheKing wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I don't think birth control is a sin. But neither do I think that for Christians it's really the best option. In most religions, the single best way of ensuring the continuation of the faith is to have children and teach them the scriptures. Children are most likely to be receptive to the tenets of any faith if they start learning at a young age and see the same faith lived out in their parents' lives. It is not quite so easy to get someone to convert later in life, though it does often happen.



teach them the scriptures? anything but that!

we were debating gays in the military today in my economy class and one girl tried suggesting its wrong because America is based in Christianity and the forefathers wanted us to follow scriptures which involved killing homosexuals and cripples as the bible demands even though in truth America is a Secular nation as George Washington himself even said and America believes in Equallity for ALL men which the bible is against


Agreed. *nods head in agreement*



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07 Dec 2011, 10:22 pm

TheKing wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I don't think birth control is a sin. But neither do I think that for Christians it's really the best option. In most religions, the single best way of ensuring the continuation of the faith is to have children and teach them the scriptures. Children are most likely to be receptive to the tenets of any faith if they start learning at a young age and see the same faith lived out in their parents' lives. It is not quite so easy to get someone to convert later in life, though it does often happen.



teach them the scriptures? anything but that!

we were debating gays in the military today in my economy class and one girl tried suggesting its wrong because America is based in Christianity and the forefathers wanted us to follow scriptures which involved killing homosexuals and cripples as the bible demands even though in truth America is a Secular nation as George Washington himself even said and America believes in Equallity for ALL men which the bible is against

Sounds like that girl doesn't really know what she's talking about.

I do think that the forefathers built our nation on Christian principles. But also keep in mind they were also children of the Enlightenment. So it's not JUST about Christian values. It's more complicated than that.

I don't get where the Bible is against "Equality for ALL." Ecclesiastes teaches that Sheol is the fate of the rich man and the poor man. When the disciples argued about who would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, Jesus told them that in order to be the greatest, you must first become the least. Also, the greatest on earth would be the least in heaven. So... How can the greatest (richest) on earth become the least and the least (poorest) on earth be the greatest in heaven if they all share in God's providence? It's not a competition. Christians are to be servants to each other and not show favoritism. And if all brothers and sisters in Christ are servants and children of God the Father, then we are all equals before God. Clearly the Bible does teach equality.

Killing homosexuals is Hebrew law for the purpose of an Israelite theocracy. That has nothing to do with Gentiles/Christians.

Killing cripples? Where is that in the Bible at all? The only thing about cripples is that they are ritually unclean for the purpose of serving in the temple. That doesn't make them outcasts of society. And...again...that's Hebrew ceremonial law. That's not for Christians.

Advice against homosexuality in the NT has to do with moral behavior that is acceptable for Christians. If you don't like that homosexuality is considered wrong, then that's your issue. I can't help you with that one. But where is it written in the NT that Jesus instructed His followers to kill homosexuals?



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07 Dec 2011, 10:28 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Burnbridge wrote:
pps, did Jesus make babies? I never heard of that happening. Why would he disobey God's explicit instructions to go forth and multiply? Priests aren't supposed to make babies either. wtf


It's the Old Testament. It doesn't count anymore ... except when it comes to homosexuality and worshiping God and stuff like that.

You know how it goes.


classic example of cherry picking from the bible

either you believe it all and are a true Christian, or you pick out the parts you like and are a faux Christian worthy of only going to Hell for not being a true Christian, whats funny is that so called fundamentalist Christians like the Westboro Baptist Church are the only true Christians today the rest are lying for fear of Hell yet they don't want to include the bad parts that make the Westboro Baptist Church legally a hate group in America, don't believe me try going to their websites at a school, they will be blocked for them being a hate group

besides Jesus himself said the Old Testament is still in effect


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07 Dec 2011, 10:42 pm

AngelRho wrote:
TheKing wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I don't think birth control is a sin. But neither do I think that for Christians it's really the best option. In most religions, the single best way of ensuring the continuation of the faith is to have children and teach them the scriptures. Children are most likely to be receptive to the tenets of any faith if they start learning at a young age and see the same faith lived out in their parents' lives. It is not quite so easy to get someone to convert later in life, though it does often happen.



teach them the scriptures? anything but that!

we were debating gays in the military today in my economy class and one girl tried suggesting its wrong because America is based in Christianity and the forefathers wanted us to follow scriptures which involved killing homosexuals and cripples as the bible demands even though in truth America is a Secular nation as George Washington himself even said and America believes in Equallity for ALL men which the bible is against

Sounds like that girl doesn't really know what she's talking about.

I do think that the forefathers built our nation on Christian principles. But also keep in mind they were also children of the Enlightenment. So it's not JUST about Christian values. It's more complicated than that.

I don't get where the Bible is against "Equality for ALL." Ecclesiastes teaches that Sheol is the fate of the rich man and the poor man. When the disciples argued about who would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, Jesus told them that in order to be the greatest, you must first become the least. Also, the greatest on earth would be the least in heaven. So... How can the greatest (richest) on earth become the least and the least (poorest) on earth be the greatest in heaven if they all share in God's providence? It's not a competition. Christians are to be servants to each other and not show favoritism. And if all brothers and sisters in Christ are servants and children of God the Father, then we are all equals before God. Clearly the Bible does teach equality.

Killing homosexuals is Hebrew law for the purpose of an Israelite theocracy. That has nothing to do with Gentiles/Christians.

Killing cripples? Where is that in the Bible at all? The only thing about cripples is that they are ritually unclean for the purpose of serving in the temple. That doesn't make them outcasts of society. And...again...that's Hebrew ceremonial law. That's not for Christians.

Advice against homosexuality in the NT has to do with moral behavior that is acceptable for Christians. If you don't like that homosexuality is considered wrong, then that's your issue. I can't help you with that one. But where is it written in the NT that Jesus instructed His followers to kill homosexuals?


actually in the Treaty of Tripoli George Washington says that because America is not based on Christianity there is no excuse for them to EVER become enemies due to religious beliefs what you are referring to is the Christian attempt to rewrite History, neither God, Jesus, Christianity, or any Supreme Being are mentioned in the US Constitution and almost all our Founding Fathers were Deists which is closer to Pantheism(what Richard Dawkins refers to as sexed up atheism) Thomas Jefferson was VERY anti clergy stating that the priest is always the enemy of Liberty, always siding with the despot

Ex.4:11 Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Lev.21:17-23 Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8)

http://newsmutiny.com/pages/HandicappedProtest.htm
Westboro Baptist Church founder Pastor Fred Phelps attempted to clarify his group?s position by proclaiming, ?God doesn?t hate cripples because they?re crippled. Cripples are crippled because God hates them. ret*ds are brute beasts that shamelessly consume their own mucous the way vile dogs eat their own vomit. Their mind is of such a reprobate nature they are given to sexually gratifying themselves in public while their physically disabled cohorts take exorbitantly long periods of time to walk down narrow hallways, slowing the progress of those not despised by God and impeding their holy endeavors.?


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Last edited by TheKing on 07 Dec 2011, 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NeantHumain
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07 Dec 2011, 10:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:
A microscopic tadpole, with half the chromosomes necessary to make a human, with an outboard motor.
I don't consider that a human, and I'm not even sure I consider it alive.

Biologically, it is a living cell.
Ragtime wrote:
Further, 300 million of them die during every ejaculation, even when attempting pregnancy. We can debate whether or not God considers those 300 million sperm to be 300 million human beings dying during every male orgasm....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8[/youtube]



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07 Dec 2011, 10:55 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
A microscopic tadpole, with half the chromosomes necessary to make a human, with an outboard motor.
I don't consider that a human, and I'm not even sure I consider it alive.

Biologically, it is a living cell.
Ragtime wrote:
Further, 300 million of them die during every ejaculation, even when attempting pregnancy. We can debate whether or not God considers those 300 million sperm to be 300 million human beings dying during every male orgasm....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8[/youtube]


THANK YOU

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07 Dec 2011, 11:05 pm

TheKing wrote:
actually in the Treaty of Tripoli George Washington says that because America is not based on Christianity there is no excuse for them to EVER become enemies due to religious beliefs what you are referring to is the Christian attempt to rewrite History, neither God, Jesus, Christianity, or any Supreme Being are mentioned in the US Constitution and almost all our Founding Fathers were Deists which is closer to Pantheism(what Richard Dawkins refers to as sexed up atheism) Thomas Jefferson was VERY anti clergy stating that the priest is always the enemy of Liberty, always siding with the despot


AngelRho did not claim that the founding fathers were all believers. Nor did he claim that the US was based entirely on Christian values. It did not stop you, attacking him with an absolute statement, and then proceeding to bash his religion. At the very least we can say that the founding fathers had a better grasp on the essentials of the Christian faith than you do; nearly half of them had seminary of Bible school degrees. There has been a fair amount of study into the religious beliefs of the founding fathers and the results do not even remotely match up to your claim. Frank Lambert of Princeton University, found that of the 55 deligates to the convention; 49 were Protestants and three were Roman Catholic; so no, 'almost all' of the founding fathers of the United States were not Deists or Pantheists. Lambert found that a few (like Franklin and Jefferson*) were anti clerical Christians and a 'few' were deists. The only whitewashing campaign that I can see, is from angry people online who seem to want to take a great deal of information, directly out of context (so I find it slightly funny, that you spent the better part of the rest of your post quote farming the Bible).

What AngelRho said is true, the founding fathers created a nation based on Christian and Enlightenment values; it is only later generations that have thought these concepts mutually exclusive.


*"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385. A great deal of Jefferson's quotes are taken out of context.

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.


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07 Dec 2011, 11:16 pm

TheKing wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Burnbridge wrote:
pps, did Jesus make babies? I never heard of that happening. Why would he disobey God's explicit instructions to go forth and multiply? Priests aren't supposed to make babies either. wtf


It's the Old Testament. It doesn't count anymore ... except when it comes to homosexuality and worshiping God and stuff like that.

You know how it goes.


classic example of cherry picking from the bible

either you believe it all and are a true Christian, or you pick out the parts you like and are a faux Christian worthy of only going to Hell for not being a true Christian, whats funny is that so called fundamentalist Christians like the Westboro Baptist Church are the only true Christians today the rest are lying for fear of Hell yet they don't want to include the bad parts that make the Westboro Baptist Church legally a hate group in America, don't believe me try going to their websites at a school, they will be blocked for them being a hate group

besides Jesus himself said the Old Testament is still in effect


Mate, interpretations are an ass, you know. You make some good points, but they will never get it because they're not conditioned to look at the Bible as a collection of different books written with different motives and each open to zillions of interpretations.

So you'll see a Christian saying Sabbath keeping is no longer required, and he'll be right, and another Christian saying it's still required, and he'll also be right.

All depends on each one's subjective interpretation.

Unfortunately, the authors are dead, so the best we can is look at each source and analyze the texts critically and without bias (which can be very hard to do).



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08 Dec 2011, 12:34 am

MCalavera wrote:
TheKing wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Burnbridge wrote:
pps, did Jesus make babies? I never heard of that happening. Why would he disobey God's explicit instructions to go forth and multiply? Priests aren't supposed to make babies either. wtf


It's the Old Testament. It doesn't count anymore ... except when it comes to homosexuality and worshiping God and stuff like that.

You know how it goes.


classic example of cherry picking from the bible

either you believe it all and are a true Christian, or you pick out the parts you like and are a faux Christian worthy of only going to Hell for not being a true Christian, whats funny is that so called fundamentalist Christians like the Westboro Baptist Church are the only true Christians today the rest are lying for fear of Hell yet they don't want to include the bad parts that make the Westboro Baptist Church legally a hate group in America, don't believe me try going to their websites at a school, they will be blocked for them being a hate group

besides Jesus himself said the Old Testament is still in effect


Mate, interpretations are an ass, you know. You make some good points, but they will never get it because they're not conditioned to look at the Bible as a collection of different books written with different motives and each open to zillions of interpretations.

So you'll see a Christian saying Sabbath keeping is no longer required, and he'll be right, and another Christian saying it's still required, and he'll also be right.

All depends on each one's subjective interpretation.

Unfortunately, the authors are dead, so the best we can is look at each source and analyze the texts critically and without bias (which can be very hard to do).



well if the bible is SUPPOSED to be the infallible Word of God without the author, supposedly God, telling you whats true or not you can then only take it as all true(illogical since the bible defies logic) or as all false


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08 Dec 2011, 12:43 am

91 wrote:
TheKing wrote:
actually in the Treaty of Tripoli George Washington says that because America is not based on Christianity there is no excuse for them to EVER become enemies due to religious beliefs what you are referring to is the Christian attempt to rewrite History, neither God, Jesus, Christianity, or any Supreme Being are mentioned in the US Constitution and almost all our Founding Fathers were Deists which is closer to Pantheism(what Richard Dawkins refers to as sexed up atheism) Thomas Jefferson was VERY anti clergy stating that the priest is always the enemy of Liberty, always siding with the despot


AngelRho did not claim that the founding fathers were all believers. Nor did he claim that the US was based entirely on Christian values. It did not stop you, attacking him with an absolute statement, and then proceeding to bash his religion. At the very least we can say that the founding fathers had a better grasp on the essentials of the Christian faith than you do; nearly half of them had seminary of Bible school degrees. There has been a fair amount of study into the religious beliefs of the founding fathers and the results do not even remotely match up to your claim. Frank Lambert of Princeton University, found that of the 55 deligates to the convention; 49 were Protestants and three were Roman Catholic; so no, 'almost all' of the founding fathers of the United States were not Deists or Pantheists. Lambert found that a few (like Franklin and Jefferson*) were anti clerical Christians and a 'few' were deists. The only whitewashing campaign that I can see, is from angry people online who seem to want to take a great deal of information, directly out of context (so I find it slightly funny, that you spent the better part of the rest of your post quote farming the Bible).

What AngelRho said is true, the founding fathers created a nation based on Christian and Enlightenment values; it is only later generations that have thought these concepts mutually exclusive.


*"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385. A great deal of Jefferson's quotes are taken out of context.

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.


he asked where in the bible it says God hates cripples so i showed where and the quote you referenced refers to Thomas Jefferson's compilation of Jesus's life where he took the bible and removed ALL supernatural references called the Jefferson Bible http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/
but he was a Deist
The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33).


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08 Dec 2011, 12:49 am

@91
Thomas Jefferson has been my idol ever since i got interested in American Politics, its a well known fact that Christian leaders opposed his election to President in 1800

Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800The religious issue was dragged out, and stirred up flames of hatred and intolerance. Clergymen, mobilizing their heaviest artillery of thunder and brimstone, threatened Christians with all manner of dire consequences if they should vote for the "in fidel" from Virginia. This was particularly true in New England, where the clergy stood like Gibraltar against Jefferson (Jefferson A Great American's Life and Ideas, Mentor Books, 1964, p.116).William Linn, a Dutch Reformed minister in New York City, made perhaps the most violent of all attacks on Jefferson's character, all of it based on religious matters. In a pamphlet entitled Serious Considerations on the Election of a President, Linn "accused Jefferson of the heinous crimes of not believing in divine revelation and of a design to destroy religion and `introduce immorality'" (Padover, p. 116). He referred to Jefferson as a "true infidel" and insisted that "(a)n infidel like Jefferson could not, should not, be elected" (Padover, p. 117). He concluded the pamphlet with this appeal for "Christians to defeat the `infidel' from Virginia"Will you, then, my fellow-citizens, with all this evidence... vote for Mr. Jefferson?... As to myself, were Mr. Jefferson connected with me by the nearest ties of blood, and did I owe him a thousand obligations, I would not, and could not vote for him. No; sooner than stretch forth my hand to place him at the head of the nation "Let mine arms fall from my shoulder blade, and mine arm be broken from the bone" (quoted by Padover, p. 117).


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08 Dec 2011, 1:09 am

@91
while i will concede you were right that he did formally identify himself as Christian he admired Jesus as a moral teacher but stated that most of the New Testament was false and did not believe in any "miracles" performed such as the virgin birth and didn't believe in the Trinity either

In an 1821 letter he wrote:?No one sees with greater pleasure than myself the progress of reason in its advances towards rational Christianity. When we shall have done away the incomprehensible jargon of the Trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one, and one is three; when we shall have knocked down the artificial scaffolding, reared to mask from view the simple structure of Jesus; when, in short, we shall have unlearned everything which has been taught since His day, and got back to the pure and simple doctrines He inculcated, we shall then be truly and worthily His disciples; and my opinion is that if nothing had ever been added to what flowed purely from His lips, the whole world would at this day have been Christian. I know that the case you cite, of Dr. Drake, has been a common one. The religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconceivable, as to shock reasonable thinkers, to revolt them against the whole, and drive them rashly to pronounce its Founder an impostor. Had there never been a commentator, there never would have been an infidel.... I have little doubt that the whole of our country will soon be rallied to the unity of the Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also."

here Jefferson is blatantly attacking the mysticism of the bible and embracing Jesus himself instead of the supernatural

btw Deists do believe in a God but also believe He doesn't interfere with life AT ALL

if i ever refer to a God im usually referring to the Universe as a whole its just more poetic though my spiritual beliefs of The Law of Conservation of Energy i guess you could say amounts to an afterlife in reference to the energy leaving our bodies to be given to new life though since its raw energy(electricity) being transformed its safe to assume that even though that energy was part of us we are no longer part of it


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08 Dec 2011, 1:16 am

TheKing wrote:
@91
while i will concede you were right that he did formally identify himself as Christian he admired Jesus as a moral teacher but stated that most of the New Testament was false and did not believe in any "miracles" performed such as the virgin birth and didn't believe in the Trinity either


I also like Jefferson, he was a strange man, with a unique method of looking at the Bible (for example, his concept of Biblical criticism involved a pair of scissors). The audacity of his way of life extended into all reaches and in many ways he was more Christian than most pew sitters. The evidence leads us to a conclusion that while he hated the clergy and the concept of organized religion, his life was informed by his profoundly Christian values combined with his complex personality and his love of the enlightenment. In a sense he was all three made whole and as such reflects many of the weaknesses of all three. His personality was critical but not reflective, his faith was guided by his sense of morality and his enlightenment values found him blinkering himself to the excesses of the French Revolution. The only charge he could never be convicted of, was of being uninteresting.

The issue I take with his religious perspectives was how out of touch he was. He thought that trinitarinism was dead, but it not only survived but dominated. He though the pews would emtpy and people would take faith home; instead active religious faith in the new Union exploded all over the place.


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08 Dec 2011, 1:38 am

91 wrote:
TheKing wrote:
@91
while i will concede you were right that he did formally identify himself as Christian he admired Jesus as a moral teacher but stated that most of the New Testament was false and did not believe in any "miracles" performed such as the virgin birth and didn't believe in the Trinity either


I also like Jefferson, he was a strange man, with a unique method of looking at the Bible (for example, his concept of Biblical criticism involved a pair of scissors). The audacity of his way of life extended into all reaches and in many ways he was more Christian than most pew sitters. The evidence leads us to a conclusion that while he hated the clergy and the concept of organized religion, his life was informed by his profoundly Christian values combined with his complex personality and his love of the enlightenment. In a sense he was all three made whole and as such reflects many of the weaknesses of all three. His personality was critical but not reflective, his faith was guided by his sense of morality and his enlightenment values found him blinkering himself to the excesses of the French Revolution. The only charge he could never be convicted of, was of being uninteresting.

The issue I take with his religious perspectives was how out of touch he was. He thought that trinitarinism was dead, but it not only survived but dominated. He though the pews would emtpy and people would take faith home; instead active religious faith in the new Union exploded all over the place.



while i am still a devout atheist, my summer that i spent alone in my new town got me contemplating on life and i found my spiritual side, i posted it in the adolescent forums

im actually atheist though contrary to popular belief i am spiritual and my spirituality is deeply rooted in nature and science, i guess Pantheism(what Richard Dawkins describes as sexed up atheism) describes it well. i believe in the Gaia Theory that the Earth, Universe, and all living things are connected and i believe in a LifeStream(FFVII reference) as well. The Law of Conservation of Energy states that Energy can neither be created or destroyed only transformed, all living things are powered by electricity and in animals(i.e humans) the electricity is sent from the brain to power our bodies, thats why if your quick enough you can resuscitate the dead by using a defibrillator to restart the heart with a jolt of electricity, anyway when we die our bodies decompose and the Energy returns to the planet through the transformation of Energy and in turn it goes on and flows through the Earth to power new life, and voila the LifeStream. the chaos of nature controls itself in perfect harmony. again i am atheist and do not believe in a God, i believe in natures laws and if anyone ever studied nature they would see how perfectly chaotic it truly is, such as space; whenever a sun violently goes supernova destroying the particular solar system eventually a new solar system is created from the remaining matter and particles and life always goes on, now im no hippie but i firmly believe humanity is too destructive and self destructive for its own good, it isn't our place to interfere with nature we are simply a byproduct of life, not the goal of life, its human arrogance to believe that in a Universe so unconvievably large that we are of any importance or even that we are some "God's(s)" chosen people in the end we are nothing but a compost heap, all made of the same decomposing matter.

im also an existential nihilist, moral nihilist, and an absurdist

i originally became obsessed over the Gaia Theory and the more i thought about it the more i included into my personal beliefs such as the Law of Conservation of Energy and i applied it to my beliefs and it goes together surprisingly well sad part is i have been having trouble finding people who share my beliefs apparently Pantheism comes the closest though


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phil777
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08 Dec 2011, 2:06 am

Horus wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Horus wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
Is birth control a sin and wrong ? Is sex only for procreation ? Is birth control like abortion ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control



No.....procreation is.

Both birth control and abortion (at any time, for any reason....punch a late-term fetus for Jesus :D )....are gifts from the Ancient Ones who rightfully want nothing more than to see even the memory of humankind's existence wiped from the cosmos.


Just a friendly reminder from your local anti-natalist misanthrope. :wink:


Horus! You're back. :D




I am surprised anyone remembers me. :)

It's been many moons. I have much to say as soon as I can find the time to say it. I've actually been employed for nearly a year now after 18 months of unemployment.

Hope you are well!! ! :D



-remembers the Horus- Oh and... Aren't you from Egypt or somewhere like that? :O I think you had posted your picture long ago.



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08 Dec 2011, 8:30 am

TheKing wrote:
Ex.4:11 Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

That just means that God made everything/everyone--including those mentioned here.

TheKing wrote:
Lev.21:17-23 Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Exactly how is this an expression of hatred towards those people? All this is doing is defining who it is that is ritually or ceremonially clean and is allowed to offer sacrifices in the tabernacle and the temple. The Levite priests had the same requirement at all times. Not EVERYONE was required to offer sacrifices at the temple. It was only certain family representatives from the various tribes and clans. So if the head of a clan was ritually unfit to offer sacrifices the next guy in line could go in his place. It wasn't that big a deal, but could be upsetting for someone who looked forward to the festivals. Remember, God prefers obedience to sacrifices. But this does not mean God hates those dealing with unfortunate circumstances. It is certainly not an edict that demands killing cripples.

TheKing wrote:
Who Will Jesus Damn?

I didn't ask who Jesus will damn. I asked where it is found in the NT where Jesus commanded His disciples to kill homosexuals.

TheKing wrote:
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8)

And where in all of that does Jesus command us to persecute any of those people? I'm waiting...

TheKing wrote:
http://newsmutiny.com/pages/HandicappedProtest.htm
Westboro Baptist Church founder Pastor Fred Phelps attempted to clarify his group?s position by proclaiming, ?God doesn?t hate cripples because they?re crippled. Cripples are crippled because God hates them. ret*ds are brute beasts that shamelessly consume their own mucous the way vile dogs eat their own vomit. Their mind is of such a reprobate nature they are given to sexually gratifying themselves in public while their physically disabled cohorts take exorbitantly long periods of time to walk down narrow hallways, slowing the progress of those not despised by God and impeding their holy endeavors.?

How are these attitudes in line with the nature and character of Jesus Christ, who they presume to imitate by calling themselves Christians? Are they even really Christians at all?