Why does our democracy no longer appear to work?

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Sweetleaf
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12 Dec 2011, 12:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
The democracy part is just an act to distract us all from the real issues......if the majority of people think they can vote for president and that it will actually change things then why would they bother looking into who's really running things and take a look around at how screwed up everything is.


And suppose they did. Then what?

ruveyn


Then they would start getting a little freaked out that people are becoming aware and do anything they can to supress the truth.


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peebo
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12 Dec 2011, 1:18 pm

do you really think it ever worked?


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Robdemanc
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12 Dec 2011, 2:00 pm

Maybe the masses need to realize that our only way of encouraging change is to stop shopping. If we all decided to stay at home one day and not shop for anything it would have the government/bankers/business leaders quaking in their shoes. But it is unionising consumers that is the problem. The NT world is so caught up in their individuality that they don't realize it is that that is hurting them.



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12 Dec 2011, 2:38 pm

fraac wrote:
You think there is 'just ethics' because you're autistic. NTs have the hierarchy; to them ethics are external, from stories and such. But how did they become so popular at all?

The timeless philosopher and auteur Ayn Rand has proven that ethics objectively exists and takes the form of a rational pursuit of self-interest.



Robdemanc
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12 Dec 2011, 3:02 pm

peebo wrote:
do you really think it ever worked?


I am not sure. I think the intention was once there but it never worked in the ideal. But I think at the moment it seems to have gone terribly wrong to the point where we are being dictated to quite blatently.



ruveyn
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12 Dec 2011, 5:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
The democracy part is just an act to distract us all from the real issues......if the majority of people think they can vote for president and that it will actually change things then why would they bother looking into who's really running things and take a look around at how screwed up everything is.


And suppose they did. Then what?

ruveyn


Then they would start getting a little freaked out that people are becoming aware and do anything they can to supress the truth.


And then what?

Can you complete a line of thought without being poked and prodded?

ruveyn



fraac
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12 Dec 2011, 5:49 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
fraac wrote:
You think there is 'just ethics' because you're autistic. NTs have the hierarchy; to them ethics are external, from stories and such. But how did they become so popular at all?

The timeless philosopher and auteur Ayn Rand has proven that ethics objectively exists and takes the form of a rational pursuit of self-interest.


Self-interest is defined differently by autistic DNA and NT DNA. Ours has broader scope.



Sweetleaf
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12 Dec 2011, 6:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
The democracy part is just an act to distract us all from the real issues......if the majority of people think they can vote for president and that it will actually change things then why would they bother looking into who's really running things and take a look around at how screwed up everything is.


And suppose they did. Then what?

ruveyn


Then they would start getting a little freaked out that people are becoming aware and do anything they can to supress the truth.


And then what?

Can you complete a line of thought without being poked and prodded?

ruveyn


That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


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ruveyn
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12 Dec 2011, 7:22 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


A complete line of thought. Where does your thinking lead to ultimately.

It is very hard to suppress the truth these days. The internet has too many paths and worm holes to facts that Our Rulers would like to hide. The game is up.

ruveyn



Sweetleaf
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13 Dec 2011, 11:31 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


A complete line of thought. Where does your thinking lead to ultimately.

It is very hard to suppress the truth these days. The internet has too many paths and worm holes to facts that Our Rulers would like to hide. The game is up.

ruveyn


Where do you think it leads? it leads to a complete catastrophe...I am not exactly sure what the plan is but I know it involves the 1% everyones talking about trying to screw everyone else over. That's all its about anymore already, cheap labor and lots and lots of income. but yeah I guess I just don't really like to say a lot about it because its pretty disturbing to me.

The internet however is great for getting information out, though I have heard of some bill they want to try and pass to put more limits on the internet....so I think that threat to their little game has been noticed.


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Robdemanc
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13 Dec 2011, 1:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


A complete line of thought. Where does your thinking lead to ultimately.

It is very hard to suppress the truth these days. The internet has too many paths and worm holes to facts that Our Rulers would like to hide. The game is up.

ruveyn


Where do you think it leads? it leads to a complete catastrophe...I am not exactly sure what the plan is but I know it involves the 1% everyones talking about trying to screw everyone else over. That's all its about anymore already, cheap labor and lots and lots of income. but yeah I guess I just don't really like to say a lot about it because its pretty disturbing to me.

The internet however is great for getting information out, though I have heard of some bill they want to try and pass to put more limits on the internet....so I think that threat to their little game has been noticed.


I find that odd for America because in Britain our prime minister has said he does not want any limits to be placed on the internet. Maybe he is not one of the 1%.



Sweetleaf
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13 Dec 2011, 1:41 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


A complete line of thought. Where does your thinking lead to ultimately.

It is very hard to suppress the truth these days. The internet has too many paths and worm holes to facts that Our Rulers would like to hide. The game is up.

ruveyn


Where do you think it leads? it leads to a complete catastrophe...I am not exactly sure what the plan is but I know it involves the 1% everyones talking about trying to screw everyone else over. That's all its about anymore already, cheap labor and lots and lots of income. but yeah I guess I just don't really like to say a lot about it because its pretty disturbing to me.

The internet however is great for getting information out, though I have heard of some bill they want to try and pass to put more limits on the internet....so I think that threat to their little game has been noticed.


I find that odd for America because in Britain our prime minister has said he does not want any limits to be placed on the internet. Maybe he is not one of the 1%.


Well I don't know that its as much of a corporatocracy, there as it is here.....but even in the U.S we have some politicians who have some pretty rational veiws but usually they don't end up having much influence.


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Sweetleaf
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13 Dec 2011, 1:42 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

That is a complete sentence as it does express a complete idea, you asked me what they would do if people look into who's really running things and take a look at how screwed up everything is. I feel that answer was sufficient if you need more details ask more questions.

but if you must know 'and then what?' well they would use any means possible to supress the truth and keep the people obedient media, possibly people dissappearing, martial law ect.


A complete line of thought. Where does your thinking lead to ultimately.

It is very hard to suppress the truth these days. The internet has too many paths and worm holes to facts that Our Rulers would like to hide. The game is up.

ruveyn


Where do you think it leads? it leads to a complete catastrophe...I am not exactly sure what the plan is but I know it involves the 1% everyones talking about trying to screw everyone else over. That's all its about anymore already, cheap labor and lots and lots of income. but yeah I guess I just don't really like to say a lot about it because its pretty disturbing to me.

The internet however is great for getting information out, though I have heard of some bill they want to try and pass to put more limits on the internet....so I think that threat to their little game has been noticed.


I find that odd for America because in Britain our prime minister has said he does not want any limits to be placed on the internet. Maybe he is not one of the 1%.


Well I don't know that its as much of a corporatocracy, there as it is here.....but even in the U.S we have some politicians who have some pretty rational veiws but usually they don't end up having much influence. So no not every politician is part of the 1% in fact most of them are just being used to.


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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13 Dec 2011, 1:45 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
fraac wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
fraac wrote:
Autistics did invent morality, surely? But how did it saturate society as an ideal way to be? Or NTs invented it to delude themselves. There's so much weirdness going on here.


I am confused with what you are saying. I would say morality came about in an evolutionary way, in gradual steps. It changes depending on circumstances facing a society. It was once considered moral for women to do as men told them. But that is not the case now. Surely you don't mean autistic people made these changes and NTs followed us?


Oppression of women evolved too - that's how churches came about. That kind of de facto morality is always shifting, it's culturally dependent. And a lot of NT philosophers will insist that morality is culturally dependent. But that's not autistic morality, which is very clear because it depends on reality.


What is meant by autistic morality? Do you mean: Telling the truth, whistle blowing etc?

Well you would be right, NT's only tell the truth if they think they absolutely have to and they know they cannot get away with lying.


Thanks a lot.



peebo
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13 Dec 2011, 2:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
We no longer have a Democracy - government by will of the citizens. What we have is a Plutocracy - government by will of the wealthy.

Now that I've pointed out the elephant in the room, what can we do to get rid of it?

Increase taxes on the wealthy? That will only give more money to the government to spend on the very industries that made the wealthy people wealthy in the first place! This is only a way to force the wealthy to re-invest in their own industries; it does not give any of the money from increased taxes to the people occupying those industries.

Have the government seize control of the industries? C'mon .... the government can barely manage itself! How can anyone expect the government to run socialized industry, or even socialized medicine, when the only management solutions the government has are to increase the bureaucracy, raise taxes, or send in the Armed Forces, all while blaming the "Other Party" for the failure of the industry in the first place?


i believe it was already pointed out when i asked the original poster if he thinks our democracy ever worked. there never was a democracy. there always was government by will of the wealthy.


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Robdemanc
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13 Dec 2011, 2:02 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
fraac wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
fraac wrote:
Autistics did invent morality, surely? But how did it saturate society as an ideal way to be? Or NTs invented it to delude themselves. There's so much weirdness going on here.


I am confused with what you are saying. I would say morality came about in an evolutionary way, in gradual steps. It changes depending on circumstances facing a society. It was once considered moral for women to do as men told them. But that is not the case now. Surely you don't mean autistic people made these changes and NTs followed us?


Oppression of women evolved too - that's how churches came about. That kind of de facto morality is always shifting, it's culturally dependent. And a lot of NT philosophers will insist that morality is culturally dependent. But that's not autistic morality, which is very clear because it depends on reality.


What is meant by autistic morality? Do you mean: Telling the truth, whistle blowing etc?

Well you would be right, NT's only tell the truth if they think they absolutely have to and they know they cannot get away with lying.


Thanks a lot.


Sorry, but in my experience that is what happens.