global warming, again

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Density is a cubic value, not a square one. You're comparing 2d planes (with panels; { } wiht sunlight itself) to 3d barrels.[/quote]

Intensity the. At what rate does energy (from the sun) come to a square meter of the earths surface per second. That is the only way to get instant power from the sun. Have it heat up something or produce an electric current. Another way we get energy from the sun is to chemically create millions of years of plant growth energized by photosynthesis, generally by burning. That is coal, gas and oil.

Instantaneously gathered solar energy is not sufficient to run our industry. Very little of the sun's energy comes to earth, much of it is blocked by the atmosphere and what does make it to the surface is spread thin on the daylight side. Wind energy is a niche form of energy and is not sufficient to power our industries. The combination of solar energy and gravitation which produces hydroelectric potential energy is limited by the number of high drops (as in waterfalls) and rivers which can either turn paddle wheels or be dammed up.. At the present time thew greatest energy source comes from the burning of hydrocarbons which is not good in two ways: it pollutes the atmosphere and it makes us dependent on nations which are hostile to us.

Our best hope is nuclear fission. Forget controlled nuclear fusion. It is a pipe dream. It has been 20 years in the future for the last 50 years and a hundred years from now it will be 20 years in the future.

My recommendation: build hundred of thorium breeder reactors and generate our electricity that way. Either that or find some way of drilling into the mantle and getting geothermal heat.

ruveyn

to say we cant power our industries with a combination of all of the above is a lie,

especially with the efficiany of wind turbines compared to the space it uses, especially offshore turbines,

the biggest problem with wind power is the high initial cost and the huge amount of manpower pr. MW it takes.
making it time intensive to do in an economic fashion.

See how many quadrillion btu's industry requires.

If we put turbines on every hill in the U.S.A. we would not have enough baseline power. You seem to overlook the simple fact that the wind does not always blow.

ruveyn

"Power density" of sunlight is expressed in watts per square meter.

There's also ways of harvesting thermal energy out of the ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

There is a s**t load of thermal energy in the tropical ocean. Occasionally mother nature releases a small fraction of this energy in the form of massive hurricanes and typhoons. The thing is you need a strong temperature gradient to convert thermal energy to mechanical energy. Therefore you have to go deep to pump up the cold water that's well below the thermocline. Desalinized drinking water is a nice side product.

yes i know how power intensive industry is,

no one is however talking about a singlwe solution, something you apearantly cant wrap your head around,

in denmark roughly 10% of all electricity is from wind alone, industry included,
with more and more private residences offsetting their mean use with solar or similar alternative energy sources,
its normal for people to use geocaching of heat as well.

when you actually slook at how many options people have im surprised every single private residence is not self sufficiemt with power, in effect i am, i produce far more than i need.
as does my whole family.


when you combine half a dozen solutions you might not be able to power an iron foundry but you do have most of the power needed in the overall picture,
greatly reducing the need for nuclear or fossil fuels.

Bismillah

So ... you want much energy? Take what you need, but if you desrie too much, the competetors/sellers of energy will compete about you causing the prices to fall yes, but there will remain one problem ... The competetors don't agree about how to provide energy.

OK, I don't want to think about this too much otherwise I will get smart which is something I don't want because then I would opt for seeking power efficiency and accepting the proposals of the sellers.

Salam

Yes it is, but you can't really compare the density of sunlight with the density of fossil fuels.

No one alternative form of sustainable energy is sufficient to replace fossil fuels, but no one has ever said that we should only do solar, only do wind, only do biomass, only do geothermal, etc. We should do *all* of them. We should also rebuild the grid, and we should also increase the efficiency of how we use electricity. As for nuclear reactors - sure, but only in non-geologically active areas (which pretty much rules out the entire west cost).

Solar power is nuclear power.

Yes. Yes. The sun operates as a fusion reactor. But it puts out its energy in a diffuse way. We are unlikely to develop working controlled fusion reactors that can channel the energy to where it is needed.

ruveyn

Then by extension every energy source we currently use is nuclear power. Fossil fuels, wind, hydro, etc.. all originate from solar energy.

The heat in the earth's mantle came from kinetic coalescence of materials 4-5 billion years ago when the planets where still forming.

Only about 20 percent of Earth's geothermal energy is primordial; approximately 80 percent of it results from radioactive decay. We're living in the Stelliferous Era: energy comes from the stars.

Making the grid more efficient and making electrical devices more efficient (especially electric lights) would reduce our electricity consumption by about 25 percent (all other things being equal). That is like finding a gigantic new oil field in the middle of Kansas. And we would not need to import any extra fuel to get this bonus. So no matter what alternative energy sources we use, restructuring our electricity uses should be an integral part of it.

Waste not, want not.

ruveyn

true

that the grid still requires as manual balancing as it does today baffles me,

I stand corrected. My understanding was based on older information.