Is it possible that consciousness can effect...

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cw10
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24 Dec 2011, 4:43 am

It's a query of entropy.

Why is this so hard to see?



Sunshine7
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24 Dec 2011, 10:14 am

Fnord, you realize you're arguing with somebody who actually wrote this:

Quote:
cw10 wrote:

And also: Time=Energy Smile Or maybe it would be more accurate to say Time=Force.



cw10
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Tadzio
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27 Dec 2011, 1:38 am

cw10 wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If time is energy, then...

What is its velocity of propagation?
cw10 wrote:
c

Evidence, Please?


Show me a clock that can run faster than light.


I should say measure time frames faster than light.



Hi cw10,

It is easy to build a clock that depends on controlled frames of events "occurring faster than the speed of light" (with this model, "instantaneous" is the limit, while with a QED model, "faster than instantaneous").

For simplicity, assume the Moon is one Light-Second distant, with a diameter of 1% of a Light-Second, and with an angular diameter as visible from Earth of 30' (30 "angular" arc-minutes, or 1/2 of a degree).

I put two mirrors on the Moon, one on "top" and one on the "bottom", and have them reflecting back to my point on the Earth.

I mount a Laser-Pointer to a gyroscope, and I place, on the Earth, the axis of the gyroscope perpendicular in the "'top-and-bottom-mirrors'-and-me" geometric plane, and as the Laser-beam transverses the moon from top-to-bottom, the mirrors reflect the Laser-Beams's arrival on, and the departure from, the surface of the moon. The "round-trip" of the Laser-beam is a little more than 2.01 Light-Seconds in Length, but by increasing the speed of rotation of the gyroscope, the "round-trip" by length of time approaches 2 seconds, with the point of the Light-beam traveling faster than the speed of light across the surface of the moon.

I can use the shortest attainable time of the periodic transverse across the moon as a time-unit "faster than light" across the surface of the Moon.

The speed of the point of light on the surface of the Moon moves faster than the speed of light when the gyroscope rotates faster than 8 rotations-per-minute (8 RPM divided by 60 for seconds = 0.133 RPS , 0.133 times 360 degrees = 48 degrees per second , 48 degrees per second times 4,000 miles per degree = 192,000 miles per second).

The "paradox" is of the same type as the "user-illusion" of consciousness, with the "moving point of light" being a fictional construct (as are shadows).

Tadzio



cw10
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27 Dec 2011, 11:05 am

Tadzio wrote:
cw10 wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If time is energy, then...

What is its velocity of propagation?
cw10 wrote:
c

Evidence, Please?


Show me a clock that can run faster than light.


I should say measure time frames faster than light.



Hi cw10,

It is easy to build a clock that depends on controlled frames of events "occurring faster than the speed of light" (with this model, "instantaneous" is the limit, while with a QED model, "faster than instantaneous").

For simplicity, assume the Moon is one Light-Second distant, with a diameter of 1% of a Light-Second, and with an angular diameter as visible from Earth of 30' (30 "angular" arc-minutes, or 1/2 of a degree).

I put two mirrors on the Moon, one on "top" and one on the "bottom", and have them reflecting back to my point on the Earth.

I mount a Laser-Pointer to a gyroscope, and I place, on the Earth, the axis of the gyroscope perpendicular in the "'top-and-bottom-mirrors'-and-me" geometric plane, and as the Laser-beam transverses the moon from top-to-bottom, the mirrors reflect the Laser-Beams's arrival on, and the departure from, the surface of the moon. The "round-trip" of the Laser-beam is a little more than 2.01 Light-Seconds in Length, but by increasing the speed of rotation of the gyroscope, the "round-trip" by length of time approaches 2 seconds, with the point of the Light-beam traveling faster than the speed of light across the surface of the moon.

I can use the shortest attainable time of the periodic transverse across the moon as a time-unit "faster than light" across the surface of the Moon.

The speed of the point of light on the surface of the Moon moves faster than the speed of light when the gyroscope rotates faster than 8 rotations-per-minute (8 RPM divided by 60 for seconds = 0.133 RPS , 0.133 times 360 degrees = 48 degrees per second , 48 degrees per second times 4,000 miles per degree = 192,000 miles per second).

The "paradox" is of the same type as the "user-illusion" of consciousness, with the "moving point of light" being a fictional construct (as are shadows).

Tadzio


Build one and prove it.



Tadzio
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27 Dec 2011, 6:18 pm

cw10 wrote:
Tadzio wrote:
cw10 wrote:
cw10 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If time is energy, then...

What is its velocity of propagation?
cw10 wrote:
c

Evidence, Please?


Show me a clock that can run faster than light.


I should say measure time frames faster than light.



Hi cw10,

It is easy to build a clock that depends on controlled frames of events "occurring faster than the speed of light" (with this model, "instantaneous" is the limit, while with a QED model, "faster than instantaneous").

For simplicity, assume the Moon is one Light-Second distant, with a diameter of 1% of a Light-Second, and with an angular diameter as visible from Earth of 30' (30 "angular" arc-minutes, or 1/2 of a degree).

I put two mirrors on the Moon, one on "top" and one on the "bottom", and have them reflecting back to my point on the Earth.

I mount a Laser-Pointer to a gyroscope, and I place, on the Earth, the axis of the gyroscope perpendicular in the "'top-and-bottom-mirrors'-and-me" geometric plane, and as the Laser-beam transverses the moon from top-to-bottom, the mirrors reflect the Laser-Beams's arrival on, and the departure from, the surface of the moon. The "round-trip" of the Laser-beam is a little more than 2.01 Light-Seconds in Length, but by increasing the speed of rotation of the gyroscope, the "round-trip" by length of time approaches 2 seconds, with the point of the Light-beam traveling faster than the speed of light across the surface of the moon.

I can use the shortest attainable time of the periodic transverse across the moon as a time-unit "faster than light" across the surface of the Moon.

The speed of the point of light on the surface of the Moon moves faster than the speed of light when the gyroscope rotates faster than 8 rotations-per-minute (8 RPM divided by 60 for seconds = 0.133 RPS , 0.133 times 360 degrees = 48 degrees per second , 48 degrees per second times 4,000 miles per degree = 192,000 miles per second).

The "paradox" is of the same type as the "user-illusion" of consciousness, with the "moving point of light" being a fictional construct (as are shadows).

Tadzio


Build one and prove it.



Hi cw10,

Your request is probably satisfied in "The Big Book of Answers", including the answer to Problem 18, page 1144, in the book "Physics for Scientists and Engineers with Modern Physics, Chapters 39-46" by Serway & Jewett (2007). Other more "wordy" books take around a 1,000 pages of philosophy to "explain" the many times "built-and-proven" simple experiment/demonstration.

Much talk about much the same: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=251174

For me (California, USA), books-dot-google returns this book as one of about 7,000 publications in return to the search for "laser point moves faster than light". This particular book, as most other books also, IMO somewhat obfuscates the most simple understanding with more difficult concepts, such as the concepts of "material", "energy", "information", etc., while the simple notion of a "shadow" avoids the tons of excess baggage that comes with the $50-Billion-Dollar words associated with "ontological" and "epistemological" bombastic aspects of a "point of light" from a Laser-pointer. (Larry Kagan turns the simplicity of a shadow into art: http://larrykagansculpture.com/ )

http://larrykagansculpture.com/media/58 ... ows-video/ (he tends to go off to deep thought land needlessly too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGXkmUe8CUU
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGXkmUe8CUU[/youtube]

A short book, "The Shadow Club" by Casati, opens the door to catching all the experts not keeping their shadows scientific, and letting "Casper the Friendly Ghost" gain free entry to confound Human Knowledge across the board. (That's how Ilm al-Kalam ended up painted into a corner by avoiding getting any paint on the shadow (bad Karma, you know), until Omar Khayyam sorta solved that riddle with "Keep the Greek Logos Out" with the Rubaiyat).
http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=9453 (about mid-way down the page is a more expansive response)

Tadzio



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27 Dec 2011, 9:25 pm

"Landru Landru is offline

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Re: Rotating a laser beam faster than light?
People are confusing a moving laser dot with something tangible. The dot is made up of photons shooting outwards from the light source. The dot at starting point is not made up of the same photons as the dot at the end, and the idea that the dot at the start and the dot at the end are one in the same is a product of our imagination. My cats get confused over this very same thing."

Are you a cat Tadzio?



Tadzio
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27 Dec 2011, 10:59 pm

cw10 wrote:
"Landru Landru is offline

Posts: 65

Re: Rotating a laser beam faster than light?
People are confusing a moving laser dot with something tangible. The dot is made up of photons shooting outwards from the light source. The dot at starting point is not made up of the same photons as the dot at the end, and the idea that the dot at the start and the dot at the end are one in the same is a product of our imagination. My cats get confused over this very same thing."

Are you a cat Tadzio?


Hi cw10,

No, I am not a fellow cat. Have you found something tangible about your pursuit of entropy, besides tiredness from your wild chase? ("not tangible" is somewhat the wrong phrase with a "laser dot", but most cats are confused between "seeing" versus "observing" too).

Have you tried a Thermos-Bottle to catch your instant of entropy? That's why there's that little Devil at the door, only letting choice Carnot Level Particles pass, that are "different" at every instant, and which are very discrete when those very bad quanta become discernible. Puck is more powerful than the "fictional" Maxwell's Demon.

But, as house cats should never think outside the box, maybe a can of circuit cooler will reverse the rotation of the vanes of the nearest Crooke's Radiometer on a sunny day without disaster.

Tadzio



cw10
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28 Dec 2011, 12:14 am

Tadzio wrote:
cw10 wrote:
"Landru Landru is offline

Posts: 65

Re: Rotating a laser beam faster than light?
People are confusing a moving laser dot with something tangible. The dot is made up of photons shooting outwards from the light source. The dot at starting point is not made up of the same photons as the dot at the end, and the idea that the dot at the start and the dot at the end are one in the same is a product of our imagination. My cats get confused over this very same thing."

Are you a cat Tadzio?


Hi cw10,

No, I am not a fellow cat. Have you found something tangible about your pursuit of entropy, besides tiredness from your wild chase? ("not tangible" is somewhat the wrong phrase with a "laser dot", but most cats are confused between "seeing" versus "observing" too).

Have you tried a Thermos-Bottle to catch your instant of entropy? That's why there's that little Devil at the door, only letting choice Carnot Level Particles pass, that are "different" at every instant, and which are very discrete when those very bad quanta become discernible. Puck is more powerful than the "fictional" Maxwell's Demon.

But, as house cats should never think outside the box, maybe a can of circuit cooler will reverse the rotation of the vanes of the nearest Crooke's Radiometer on a sunny day without disaster.

Tadzio


This guy has a similar proposal. I thought of it before reading this however, but in an attempt to find some data on the subject I ran across this guys work: http://www.timephysics.com/what-causes-time.html

It's posted up^ there somewhere also, but I'm not assuming you read everything.



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29 Dec 2011, 6:32 am

cw10 wrote:

This guy has a similar proposal. I thought of it before reading this however, but in an attempt to find some data on the subject I ran across this guys work: http://www.timephysics.com/what-causes-time.html

It's posted up^ there somewhere also, but I'm not assuming you read everything.



Hi cw10,

I visited timephysics-dot-com, and IMO, it is riddled with errors.

About the easiest, and briefest/concise, book I've studied is "Differential Geometry and Relativity Theory: an introduction" by Richard L. Faber (1983). The most frequent major error in all the more informal and simplified book/internet space-time models I've encountered is when a spacetime curve is lightlike, and hence, "proper time cannot be used as a parameter", but for "simplicity" it is taken, and treated, it seems to me, as an assumed "continued to be used" parameter for modeling illustrations, despite the ensuing total confusion between what is possible and impossible with timelike, lightlike, and spacelike travel (with the "possible" repeatedly observable by experiments, and the "impossible" yet to be observed by any experiments not corrupted by the observation and/or conceptualization (i.e., quantum mechanics)).
(ibid., page 198, book-dot-google search "Faber Differential Otherwise spacelike", first choice on my returned search results of 3 results in USA.):
http://www.google.com/search?q=Faber+Di ... =bks&tbo=1

Tadzio