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theaspiemusician
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07 Jan 2012, 2:05 pm

So today I was on facebook and I saw one of my best friends commented on a video about Feminists who are sexist. My friend said she didn't understand why anyone would be so sexist and not realize it but she's ok with the feminists who are ok and NOT sexist. After much of the conversation I decided of posting this on here. I think that, in my personal opinion, guys and girls shouldn't fight about things at all. It's kind of pointless to get worked up about things to the point where you become sexist YOURSELF. At the same time I think girls SHOULD be treated more equally. There are things chicks don't get but guys do and I understand that. Equal also means DON'T HATE GUYS. I may be a girl but I hang out with guys more often and get along with them better. Certain ways to distinguish gender don't apply to me so basically I have a very neutral but logical opinion here. The only way gender actually MATTERS to me is when I date, I'm not bisexual. What are you guy's opinions?


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07 Jan 2012, 2:13 pm

Well, feminists that become sexist get too immersed in the whole thing, particularly the equality part. Men and women are NOT EQUAL. Until women can piss on trees, they aren't equal. Some women say women and men are equal but different. Again, great logic. By that rate, me and Oprah and equal but different. We are also separate but equal, right? Separate, different, sounds too similar to me. The fact is, men and women aren't as different as people seem to think (with this whole mars and venus crap) but there are differences, and that is going to lend itself to different treatment. You can't get your way all the time. Accept that and don't fight it, because it's a battle that can't be won. That's where the whole entitlement thing comes from, and it's annoying. Most entitlement princesses aren't even feminists. They just know how to play that card well.



theaspiemusician
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07 Jan 2012, 2:26 pm

Mindslave wrote:
Until women can piss on trees, they aren't equal.

Rofl peeing on trees. If only. That would make life so much easier :D
Yeah i agree, the whole thing is, yes guys and girls are different, but they're also very similar. I really don't get why everyone has to make such a big deal out of things though. Just make sure things like social rules n' such are equaller and that's pretty much it. Feminists who are too crazy about the whole thing make it much harder, like putting gasoline on fire to try to put it out. I wish i could tell them no one's going to listen if they're an a***hole.


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07 Jan 2012, 3:48 pm

Mindslave wrote:
Until women can piss on trees, they aren't equal.


Thats easily done, either with a Pee-pal or She-pee, or many women can pee forward, standing up anyway.



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07 Jan 2012, 3:56 pm

theaspiemusician wrote:
So today I was on facebook and I saw one of my best friends commented on a video about Feminists who are sexist. My friend said she didn't understand why anyone would be so sexist and not realize it but she's ok with the feminists who are ok and NOT sexist. After much of the conversation I decided of posting this on here. I think that, in my personal opinion, guys and girls shouldn't fight about things at all. It's kind of pointless to get worked up about things to the point where you become sexist YOURSELF. At the same time I think girls SHOULD be treated more equally. There are things chicks don't get but guys do and I understand that. Equal also means DON'T HATE GUYS. I may be a girl but I hang out with guys more often and get along with them better. Certain ways to distinguish gender don't apply to me so basically I have a very neutral but logical opinion here. The only way gender actually MATTERS to me is when I date, I'm not bisexual. What are you guy's opinions?


Carl, I'm reading about feminism right now. There are two types of feminism:

1. First wave feminism is at bottom about trying to masculinize women. They like to claim that they were about "liberating" women, but what they've really done is to add a full-time job upon a woman's other traditional duties, such as caring for her children and cooking and cleaning. I don't see how modern women do it. This is the big reason why birth rates have been at below-replacement levels for decades in all Western countries.

2. Second wave feminism is about "bringing it all down", and "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." These feminists see the world as irredeemably "patriarchal" and either want to destroy the culture or have a separate feminine sphere. This won't work. The reason is that women aren't a separate group from men the way, say, blacks are from whites. Blacks and whites are real groups in that either could exist without the other. Separate the sexes and there wouldn't be anybody left in a hundred years.



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07 Jan 2012, 4:14 pm

The only problem I have with certain feminists (and I'm a feminist myself) is that some of them put down my choice to be a housewife. No one forced me to do this. I could work if I wanted to, and I have worked. I enjoy staying home and taking care of the house and my family. I don't feel like I should or I have to, I like doing it.

Many will try and invalidate my choice because they see it as setting women back. It's not. My husband doesn't tell me what to do by any means. We make decisions together, and I actually have more influence in them than he does because by mutual agreement I am better at those things.

I have seen them do the same things to women who work in strip clubs. They put down the woman's choice. I'm sure that there are some who are forced to work there by circumstance, and yes strip clubs are sexist, but it's great money and I wish I had the looks and coordination to do it because I would. Every stripper I've ever known has done that job by choice. There were a few biker chicks whose ole men told them to work there, but mostly it's women who want to make good money and don't have a lot of skills or time to learn them.

Feminism should embrace all choices women make, not just ones they approve of.


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theaspiemusician
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07 Jan 2012, 4:25 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
The only problem I have with certain feminists (and I'm a feminist myself) is that some of them put down my choice to be a housewife. No one forced me to do this. I could work if I wanted to, and I have worked. I enjoy staying home and taking care of the house and my family. I don't feel like I should or I have to, I like doing it.

Many will try and invalidate my choice because they see it as setting women back. It's not. My husband doesn't tell me what to do by any means. We make decisions together, and I actually have more influence in them than he does because by mutual agreement I am better at those things.

I have seen them do the same things to women who work in strip clubs. They put down the woman's choice. I'm sure that there are some who are forced to work there by circumstance, and yes strip clubs are sexist, but it's great money and I wish I had the looks and coordination to do it because I would. Every stripper I've ever known has done that job by choice. There were a few biker chicks whose ole men told them to work there, but mostly it's women who want to make good money and don't have a lot of skills or time to learn them.

Feminism should embrace all choices women make, not just ones they approve of.

Ikr. I'm sure those type of feminists would hate me because of my neutral opinion and the fact that gender doesn't really matter to me.


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Hmmm...interesting. Shows what you know about Aspies, doesn't it rofl?

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29 Feb 2012, 8:48 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
The only problem I have with certain feminists (and I'm a feminist myself) is that some of them put down my choice to be a housewife. No one forced me to do this. I could work if I wanted to, and I have worked. I enjoy staying home and taking care of the house and my family. I don't feel like I should or I have to, I like doing it.

Many will try and invalidate my choice because they see it as setting women back. It's not. My husband doesn't tell me what to do by any means. We make decisions together, and I actually have more influence in them than he does because by mutual agreement I am better at those things.

I have seen them do the same things to women who work in strip clubs. They put down the woman's choice. I'm sure that there are some who are forced to work there by circumstance, and yes strip clubs are sexist, but it's great money and I wish I had the looks and coordination to do it because I would. Every stripper I've ever known has done that job by choice. There were a few biker chicks whose ole men told them to work there, but mostly it's women who want to make good money and don't have a lot of skills or time to learn them.

Feminism should embrace all choices women make, not just ones they approve of.


This I fully agree with. I can't respect modern day feminism on the whole because it's been corrupted by hypocrisy in so many ways. This is probably because of a generation split but most of the so called feminists I know (the majority of which are under 25) seem to think they can use feminism as a smoke-screen as to try and get everything their own way all of the time. Whenever that doesn't happen they then try & play the women's rights/equal opportunities card.

Likewise when something that was previously in women's favour gets equaled up (example car insurance, up until this year women had to pay less, this has been made unlawful by the European court of human rights) they'll then start complaining about that as well. Can't have it one way and not the other.

Everyone regardless of gender, age, race, religion or sexual orientation should be treated as an individual and completely on their own merits.


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29 Feb 2012, 1:19 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
theaspiemusician wrote:
So today I was on facebook and I saw one of my best friends commented on a video about Feminists who are sexist. My friend said she didn't understand why anyone would be so sexist and not realize it but she's ok with the feminists who are ok and NOT sexist. After much of the conversation I decided of posting this on here. I think that, in my personal opinion, guys and girls shouldn't fight about things at all. It's kind of pointless to get worked up about things to the point where you become sexist YOURSELF. At the same time I think girls SHOULD be treated more equally. There are things chicks don't get but guys do and I understand that. Equal also means DON'T HATE GUYS. I may be a girl but I hang out with guys more often and get along with them better. Certain ways to distinguish gender don't apply to me so basically I have a very neutral but logical opinion here. The only way gender actually MATTERS to me is when I date, I'm not bisexual. What are you guy's opinions?


Carl, I'm reading about feminism right now. There are two types of feminism:

1. First wave feminism is at bottom about trying to masculinize women. They like to claim that they were about "liberating" women, but what they've really done is to add a full-time job upon a woman's other traditional duties, such as caring for her children and cooking and cleaning. I don't see how modern women do it. This is the big reason why birth rates have been at below-replacement levels for decades in all Western countries.

2. Second wave feminism is about "bringing it all down", and "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." These feminists see the world as irredeemably "patriarchal" and either want to destroy the culture or have a separate feminine sphere. This won't work. The reason is that women aren't a separate group from men the way, say, blacks are from whites. Blacks and whites are real groups in that either could exist without the other. Separate the sexes and there wouldn't be anybody left in a hundred years.


Wow, what great bastion of academic analysis is this from, again?

/sarcasm


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29 Feb 2012, 1:26 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
The only problem I have with certain feminists (and I'm a feminist myself) is that some of them put down my choice to be a housewife. No one forced me to do this. I could work if I wanted to, and I have worked. I enjoy staying home and taking care of the house and my family. I don't feel like I should or I have to, I like doing it.

Many will try and invalidate my choice because they see it as setting women back. It's not. My husband doesn't tell me what to do by any means. We make decisions together, and I actually have more influence in them than he does because by mutual agreement I am better at those things.

I have seen them do the same things to women who work in strip clubs. They put down the woman's choice. I'm sure that there are some who are forced to work there by circumstance, and yes strip clubs are sexist, but it's great money and I wish I had the looks and coordination to do it because I would. Every stripper I've ever known has done that job by choice. There were a few biker chicks whose ole men told them to work there, but mostly it's women who want to make good money and don't have a lot of skills or time to learn them.

Feminism should embrace all choices women make, not just ones they approve of.


I've never seen feminists indict either of those things-only the circumstances which might coalesce via cultural conditioning and economic inequalities and bring them about. Except maybe in the personal-is-political context, which makes sense- individuals "choosing" en masse to do certain things brings about a normalization which can reinforce pre-existing pressures on other members of their class.

People who attempt to sell "choice" as feminism seem to refuse to have any meaningful conversation about what "choice" means-
what does it mean to "choose" to be a housewife in a culture where domestic womanhood is constantly-fetishized?
What does it mean to "choose" to be a stripper if there are economic inequalities that affect women and racial minorities disproportionately,
jointly-existing in a climate where sexual objectifying one's self is a lucrative prospect?

Those questions can be asked about pretty much anything- to pretend people live their lives in vacuums makes no sense.


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 29 Feb 2012, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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29 Feb 2012, 1:27 pm

Dunnyveg wrote:
Carl, I'm reading about feminism right now. There are two types of feminism:

1. First wave feminism is at bottom about trying to masculinize women. They like to claim that they were about "liberating" women, but what they've really done is to add a full-time job upon a woman's other traditional duties, such as caring for her children and cooking and cleaning. I don't see how modern women do it. This is the big reason why birth rates have been at below-replacement levels for decades in all Western countries.

2. Second wave feminism is about "bringing it all down", and "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." These feminists see the world as irredeemably "patriarchal" and either want to destroy the culture or have a separate feminine sphere. This won't work. The reason is that women aren't a separate group from men the way, say, blacks are from whites. Blacks and whites are real groups in that either could exist without the other. Separate the sexes and there wouldn't be anybody left in a hundred years.


There are other types of feminism also. But these two types you listed scare the crap out of me. I find extremely masculine - and aggressive - women and men-hating types scary.



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29 Feb 2012, 1:30 pm

I AM equal in the sense that I am a sentient human being whose life is worth as much as any other persons. My desires are as valid as anyone's. My feminism revolves around this radical notion. I don't know why people get so upset about me asserting that I am, in fact, not a second class of human, but people are crazy.


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29 Feb 2012, 1:31 pm

Tequila wrote:

There are other types of feminism also. But these two types you listed scare the crap out of me. I find extremely masculine - and aggressive - women and men-hating types scary.


Know what I find scary?

FGM.
Sexual slavery.
Female infanticide.
Rape as a weapon of war.

And unlike the supposed "scary" types you just named,
those are institutionalized, millions-strong global practices,
violent ones,
not a handful of first-world disgruntled malcontents.


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29 Feb 2012, 1:33 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Know what I find scary?

FGM.
Sexual slavery.
Female infanticide.
Rape as a weapon of war.


Those are disgusting and repellent practices, but I'm talking about day to day life here, those that we see. Get off that high horse of yours.



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29 Feb 2012, 1:33 pm

Tequila wrote:
I find extremely masculine - and aggressive - women and men-hating types scary.


Erm, what if some women can't help being 'masculine'? What if they have some form of GID? Even if they don't have GID, I argue that women have a right to be as 'masculine' or as 'feminine' as they like.


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29 Feb 2012, 1:34 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Erm, what if some women can't help being 'masculine'?


I'm talking about those that look like they are out for a fight. Aggressive yobs, not just women that are like men.