Does anyone else not believe in feminism?

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Let me clarify: in the dictionary, feminism as defined as the 'equality between men and women'. Going by that, yes, I am a feminist. But to me, the word actually means something quite different.

People who self describe as feminists believe that women suffer at the expense of men's privilege. While most feminists are not misandrists, this belief can very (logically, actually) lead to misandry. And my opposition to it is that I simply think it's wrong.

School textbooks push the idea that throughout history, basically in every society on Earth, men treated women like sh*t. They list all the privileges, some of which are actually equally classified as responsibilities, such as voting, jury duty, and so on, that women were, I agree unfairly denied. This wasn't because women were seen as inferior though, it was because it wasn't seen as a woman's place. Just like being a stay at home dad and having strong connections with your children emotionally was not seen as a man's place. The idea of either sex having a 'place' of course is BS, the sexes have tendencies, but not every single member of a sex is going to act in a manner that is stereotypical and usual of their sex naturally and it's wrong to deny them that choice.

They never mention though, that men were forced to go to war, that we live 5 years less on average, that being expected to be the breadwinners is a huge responsibility, that we're more likely to be victims of crime, that we are treated more harshly by the justice system.

I do think sexism exists, but it's two sided. The victims of sexism aren't women as a collective, but women AND men who do not conform to their gender role.

Also I kind of resent the idea that I somehow am imbued with privilege at the expense of women simply because I'm male. I think that's bullsh*t.

Feminism should be called 'gender equality', the name feminism implies a belief women are in some sense superior to men.

Women and men are equal, yes, and feminists try to go for more than equality but instead superiority of women over men. It should only be equality and neither be treated as superior to the other.

Obviously, the subjugation of women under male authority is an inherently Christian value.

Feminism definitely, most assuredly exists.

There are concepts and ideas in feminism that I agree with.

However, I struggle with the feminist world view. Before religions morphed things there was more since and benefits to women with the social structure.

A women that has kids or pregnant does benefit from the male protector. The male also benefits by protecting women and children, ensuring offspring. I also think women have more power and have had more power than they give themselves credit for.

In addition, modern feminism is really rich white women verses the real world. Women that wanted rights to work and own property. Minority, poor, and other subjugated groups have worked. - I used to have some good reads about this but I lost the titles and can't think of them.

I think modern feminism is running amuck.

Myth of Male Power and War Against Boys are good reads.

Men are what their mothers made them. –Ralph Waldo Emerson I have found with modern feminism there is a denial of responsibly. Many of our current boys are turning out bad not only because of dad's failing but mom's failings. Mothers and women are more likely to be the caregivers and teachers. Boys are not magically turning bad and it isn't all at the fault of the dads. Mutual responsibly.

I think modern feminism is lacking greatly in women being responsible and blaming other things and males.

I really belive in gender equality, and femenism has been great to push women up and help remove gender sterotypes, but I do get the feeling that as time goes on some of it turns into an exercise of giving females more power. That sounds a little harsh, but I think it is a two way street.

Not that there is a lot of things, but there are things like the fact people often try to say it is weird for me to be a guy male with long nails, my nails naturelly grow long, people enciourage me to keep them short because "only girls have long nails", but it is who I am. I am a Cub Scout leader here in Australia, both genders have been in t for quite a while now, but there is still an out dated rule where during prayer it is manditory for the boys to remove their hats, though optional for the girls, it is most enforced by some female leaders, but I actually think it is sexist, not sure to which gender. But I really try to make sure they are treated equelly, although you have to often be carefull not to step on egg shells on some things.

i am a feminist and i do not think women should be raised above men in any way. so the people who seem to think that feminists want power or more rights or freedoms or privileges over men are clearly not actually listening to a variety of feminist viewpoints.

i think that deciding to shut out feminism because of the extreme viewpoints is a bit like deciding that all religions should be discarded because of the fundamentalist actions and beliefs of the radical segments.

Well if you consider equal rights in the workplace and career field in general feminism, I agree, that is still valid. And I strongly disagree with 'shutting out' even the most extreme strands of feminism, as that is censorship.

I have a question - do you think a woman has a right to choose abortion even if their devoted (ie, not absent) baby's father doesn't want her to? I would consider that a 'special' right rather than an 'equal' right. On the other hand, I think if the baby's father wants an abortion, the woman has every right to say no. Actually, I'm anti-abortion (not using the word pro-life since I find it designed to demonize the opposing side) but if I was pro-abortion I would only approve of abortion if both parties agreed to it. I know the baby is in the woman's body, but imo it's irrelevant since the fetus belongs to two people.

The only time I approve of abortion is if it risks a woman's life to continue a pregnancy or risks her serious harm. The reason I say 'serious' is because pregnancy in general is harmful on the body, but I mean if it could cause disability or long-lasting health problems then I think abortion should be an option. I'm against taking life, but better the fetus than the mother.

But yeah, my main problem is the concept of 'privilege'. I mean, I accept that I have privilege for being white in the sense that being part of the majority means you have no pressure to conform to the majority, since you are part of it. But women outnumber men, and even though politically they aren't well represented, which I think has as much to do with women's choice as it does with oppression, I mean let's face it, on average women are not as passionate about politics, in part because they tend to enjoy arguing less, they have huge influence on society nonetheless. I mean, whose mother doesn't influence them, for good or for bad?

i usually avoid answering that question about abortion because it is so controversial. i do think that the father should have a say in what happens to his child. i don't think it is right that a woman can choose to carry and raise a child that the father doesn't want, and then get stuck with having to pay child support. the reverse of that would happen if a man chose to keep a child that a woman didn't want, so the problems are bigger than we can solve on an internet board.

but in our surrent system with our current options (i'd like to see foetal transplants to a surrogate being a possibility in the future), the baby oven resides in a human who i believe should be allowed to decide what happens in her own body. i do understand that it isn't fair for a woman to have total decision-making power given that she is carrying another person's future offspring, so i'd like to see better options to take both parents into account. so it's complicated and i don't know how to make it fair, given the current set of scientific limitations and politics.

i've been called all kinds of words on the board for my feminist ideas, but ultimately i think that men and women are best off when they listen to each other and work towards common goals.

too many generalisations here. women do try to go into politics but they hardly make it through the starting gate. we had a female prime minister in canada for a brief period and she was slaughtered in the media for gaining a few pounds. nobody gave a crap what she was saying because apparently the size of her ass was of utmost importance as opposed to the work she was doing.

i think women do argue as much as men, but many not enjoy the style of debate as seen in places like PPR. you will see women arguing strenuously on other areas of WP though - they don't shy from a good fight.

women are generally not socialised to seek positions of power in politics or even in the workplace. in their careers they are often overlooked for advancement, just like in politics.

You're right. I agree with the idea that women are oppressed in the field of career. But, at the same time, I think politics, just like geography, tends to appeal to a larger percentage of men than women. The reason women are lacking in politics is a bit of both imo.

Yeah, some feminists on the Occupy Portland message board on Facebook were bashing me because I was offended at the idea that men should have no say whatsoever when it comes to the fate of their child. I'm pretty accepting of pro-abortion views in general, because even though I'm anti-abortion I don't have a very strong opinion on it, but them labelling me a misogynist because I found that to be unfair pissed me off. I'm glad that you're more reasonable about it all.

In some ways, I think that the 'men should have a say' argument is a little bit of a straw man, like the parental notification laws. If a girl has a good relationship with her parents, or even a tolerable one - in short, if she trusts them to have her best interests in mind, even if they'll be mad - she's going to go to her parents when she needs help and advice on something really important. If she doesn't trust them, they're probably not the kind of parents who *should* have a say in what their daughter does.
Likewise, if a woman has any kind of a caring relationship with a guy, she's going to talk to him about getting pregnant and take his opinion into consideration. If she doesn't know him well or doesn't trust him, then he doesn't get much say in what she does with her body. In either case, the final choice has to be hers because she's the one who's pregnant (though I agree with hyperlexian: in the event that womb-transfers become medically possible, things might change).