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cw10
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07 Feb 2012, 6:09 pm

I've had this idea batting around in my noodle for the last few weeks. It's not a new idea.

If you are the observer of your own dreams, and they are real to you while you're sleeping, what makes them any less "real" than reality?

If spacetime is merely a collection of ripples, are not your dreams merely a collection of ripples as well?

Is it only a question of scale?



TeaEarlGreyHot
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07 Feb 2012, 6:11 pm

Dreams are no more real than daytime fantasies. However, they can affect our actions and decisions so they do cause ripples.


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JWC
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07 Feb 2012, 6:19 pm

Maybe reality is more than just ripples.



thedaywalker
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07 Feb 2012, 6:32 pm

ofcourse dreams are real for we can say that they exist. but they are real like unicorns are real as in they are realy part of human inmagination. the question that youre raising seems however to be from a diffrent order could you please explaing further about it?



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07 Feb 2012, 7:11 pm

There are scientific hypotheses that dreams, aside from being some sort of memory database maintenance, constitute a test environment for problem solving strategies. We all know that stressful or terrifying daytime experiences, such as watching a horror movie, can cause nightmares. This shows that dreams basically simulate a virtual reality based on real incidents and memories.

According to the Finnish neuroscientist Antti Revonsuo, the purpose of this simulation is threat avoidance training. That's why you are running from the same monster in your dreams that you've seen on TV during the day. Your subconscious doesn't know that the horror movie wasn't real and trains you to respond to a werewolf or vampire attack :D

Judging by the research of Stanford University psychologist William Dement, dreams can also help to solve logical problems. In one experiment, he instructed a group of students to work on a set of brainteasers right before bedtime, and one of them reported having an abstract dream that revealed the answer to one of the questions to him.

The brainteaser in question was a sentence of letters, O T T F F. The students were supposed to continue the sequence. The letters stood for "One, Two, Three" and so on, so the next letter and the correct answer was S for six. The student who solved this puzzle in his sleep dreamed of an art gallery, where he counted a row of paintings. The sixth painting in the row had been ripped out of its frame. He remembered this when he woke up and realized that he had his solution.

There are also historic accounts to support this problem solving hypothesis. For example, the German chemist Friedrich August Kekulé dreamed of a snake grabbing its own tail, which lead to his discovery of the benzene molecule structure. And the Russian chemist Demitri Mendeleev (or Mendeleyev) literally dreamed up the periodic table.

So dreams are both a virtual reality experience and a reprocessing of very real daytime experiences. While there is little to no brain-environment interaction during sleep, dreams are still a form of interaction with reality. Real incidents shape our dreams, and our dreams in turn affect daytime decisions.



Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 07 Feb 2012, 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Kraichgauer
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07 Feb 2012, 7:14 pm

Dreams are when your ego and super ego switch off for the night, and your Id is free to play. That means, that hidden part of you that you would never reveal to the world - that you may not even know exists in many cases - can run wild with thoughts and imagery of things you might be fearful of, might love or are exited by, or - again - may showcase your secret, hidden desires.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



CrazyCatLord
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07 Feb 2012, 7:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Dreams are when your ego and super ego switch off for the night, and your Id is free to play. That means, that hidden part of you that you would never reveal to the world - that you may not even know exists in many cases - can run wild with thoughts and imagery of things you might be fearful of, might love or are exited by, or - again - may showcase your secret, hidden desires.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If the problem solving hypothesis is correct, the kind of dreams that reveal hidden desires would be a training ground for reproductive strategies :)



ruveyn
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07 Feb 2012, 7:36 pm

cw10 wrote:
I've had this idea batting around in my noodle for the last few weeks. It's not a new idea.

If you are the observer of your own dreams, and they are real to you while you're sleeping, what makes them any less "real" than reality?

If spacetime is merely a collection of ripples, are not your dreams merely a collection of ripples as well?

Is it only a question of scale?


I am what is called a "lucid dreamer". I know my dreams are dreams, however I have a presence in them which enables me to control them. I came on this ability accidentally many years ago and I have not had a nightmare since. In dreams in which I am a participant or player I am self aware. I can control the events and I can end the dream at will.

Even though my dreams are not real they are an opportunity to think about certain matters that come up in the dreams. I do very good dialogues in my dreams which I am unable to equal when I am awake.


ruveyn



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07 Feb 2012, 7:45 pm

cw10 wrote:
I've had this idea batting around in my noodle for the last few weeks. It's not a new idea.

If you are the observer of your own dreams, and they are real to you while you're sleeping, what makes them any less "real" than reality?

If spacetime is merely a collection of ripples, are not your dreams merely a collection of ripples as well?

Is it only a question of scale?

i get you, and i have wondered the same thing. "experiences" happen subjectively in our heads. when we see something, we are not really seeing it but interpreting the patterns of light and shadow and colour to create an image that in assembled in our mind. same with all the other senses. we are never really experiencing the world i think; we are absorbing and compiling and interpreting sensory information and we translate it into a memory of experience. nothing truly happens in real time.

one real difference between dreams and "reality" is the presence of other observers in real life (or the possibility of their presence for confirmation). also, dreams can occur with no prior sensory input, whereas reality requires input.


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Kraichgauer
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07 Feb 2012, 7:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
cw10 wrote:
I've had this idea batting around in my noodle for the last few weeks. It's not a new idea.

If you are the observer of your own dreams, and they are real to you while you're sleeping, what makes them any less "real" than reality?

If spacetime is merely a collection of ripples, are not your dreams merely a collection of ripples as well?

Is it only a question of scale?


I am what is called a "lucid dreamer". I know my dreams are dreams, however I have a presence in them which enables me to control them. I came on this ability accidentally many years ago and I have not had a nightmare since. In dreams in which I am a participant or player I am self aware. I can control the events and I can end the dream at will.

Even though my dreams are not real they are an opportunity to think about certain matters that come up in the dreams. I do very good dialogues in my dreams which I am unable to equal when I am awake.


ruveyn


I wish I had the ability to control my dreams. Most of the time, I think my dreams are real, even when they're senseless and absurd.
I often don't remember the nightmares I have that make me bolt upright screaming - and those are more common for me than I like. There was one such nightmare I do remember, involving a gigantic centipede crawling onto the top of a kitchen table. I wonder what Freud of Jung would think of that?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



blauSamstag
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07 Feb 2012, 10:13 pm

All I know is that that was the worst ever robin williams movie.



Bun
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07 Feb 2012, 11:45 pm

Really? I loved the film. 8O


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Kraichgauer
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07 Feb 2012, 11:59 pm

Bun wrote:
Really? I loved the film. 8O


Me too, but I understand that they had changed the ending from the original Richard Matheson story, so everyone could live happily ever after in heaven.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Bun
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08 Feb 2012, 12:01 am

I'd be interested in reading the book... I might have known it was based on a book before, but it didn't register. :P Thank you.


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08 Feb 2012, 1:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I wish I had the ability to control my dreams. Most of the time, I think my dreams are real, even when they're senseless and absurd.
I often don't remember the nightmares I have that make me bolt upright screaming - and those are more common for me than I like. There was one such nightmare I do remember, involving a gigantic centipede crawling onto the top of a kitchen table. I wonder what Freud of Jung would think of that?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Lucid dreaming can be learned, poke about online you'll probably find some help with it.

It's an interesting experience.


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