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walk-in-the-rain
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28 Oct 2006, 8:17 pm

Here is a link to the ASL sign for a hug. Perhaps you and your son could do this if he finds a hug intrusive right now. (I could not seem to link to the actual word so you would have to look up the word on the right.)

http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/browser.htm



Stinkypuppy
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28 Oct 2006, 8:22 pm

I've always had a difficult time expressing love to my parents. It's not that I did not know how to hug them or kiss them, but I hated to do it. Whenever my mother wanted to hug me, sometimes I would give a perfunctory hug when I actually wanted to do it. Otherwise, I felt annoyed to do it, and didn't really want to do it. My parents always seemed to be in the way, and they very often did not make logical decisions, and yet they really couldn't give satisfactory explanations for why I should behave in a certain way. For the most part, they instituted rules for their own convenience, e.g. so that I would not embarrass them if my clothes were not quite right. I did not recognize all the positive stuff they did for me until much later on. Even when they did do stuff, they always pointed it out and made a point to tell me that I should appreciate them for what they did. Their forcing that idea down my throat made me feel less inclined to actually thank them for what support they gave.

I can hug my parents nowadays, but it still feels a bit perfunctory, as though hugging doesn't seem very important. In the end, they know that I appreciate what they did for me. For whatever reason, I've never been able to hug my parents, my brother, and my sister beyond a perfunctory hug. Hugging my brother, for example, is simply out of the question; it feels extremely awkward for me to do it. Interestingly, I am a lot more comfortable with hugging very close friends, and I tend to give them giant bear hugs. However, I am fully aware that my family is always there to support me, and I am always there to support them, whereas I usually lose contact with even close friends eventually. My closest friends are not closer to me than my family is. Maybe I take my family for granted?? :roll:



SteveK
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29 Oct 2006, 12:23 am

NINA,

I was the SAME way!! !! ! Look up autism, and you will see it is TEXTBOOK!! !! ! LITERALLY! In a way, you WERE hurting him.

I spoke with my mother a few hours ago, and I at one point told her "I told you I am AUTISTIC right?". She said she didn't think I actually used that word, but said she heard me say I had "Aspergers". She spoke to a person that has a boy that she sees every week, and HE has aspergers. Their mutual friend even claimed BILL GATES has aspergers. I doubt that for LOTS of reasons, but the rumor is interesting.

Anyway, I even told her about the plane incident again, which she didn't remember. I also reminded her that I have said for YEARS that my senses are skewed, and some idiot at her place, last time I was there, burned some stuff and the alarm went off, and I was the ONLY one covering my ears, and wanting to SCRAM! All I knew was I was DIFFERENT! People that know me admit it! And, outside of some social deficits, every obvious difference looks like a BENEFIT!

There are SO many little things my mother didn't like, and now I find they are ALL TEXTBOOK AUTISM! Even my reluctance to look straight ahead, let alone look someone in the eyes. Lack of apparant empathy, etc.... I wonder how she will react when she reads the symptoms, and puts the pieces together. And NOBODY knew!

Anyway, do NOT hold it against your son. HECK, males and females think a little differently, and women ALWAYS attribute some of this autistic behaviour to men. It is simply more pronounced in your son. I was reading just today that the human brain has 19/23Billion Neurons. Women have about 19, and men have about 23. But women have more neuropil, and a better connection between the two halves. Like it or not, in this area, women and men truly ARE seperate but equal. The two brains are about as different as they could be without being totally alien. with all this, try to look at your son as simply a nice healthy, but different, boy. His senses may be skewed. WHO KNOWS, maybe it will come in handy, and he may even build a life around it. His social skills may be a little messed up, but other areas will likely compensate, and he may see benefit THERE. At least you will know his experiences are REAL! You will KNOW what you can expect! Heck, if he was a normal boy, you would STILL have some of the complaints. That is just how things are.

MY GOD, if only I knew this even a decade ago. My life would be VERY different.

Steve



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29 Oct 2006, 12:25 am

I just came up with another idea! If your son likes helping you out, maybe you could spend some doing chores together? If you have a backyard with a garden, you could kill an hour or two by pulling out the weeds! If he knows how to and is responsible enough, you could clean the dishes together. Not only are you two showing love for eachother, but you get things done around the house, too!



nina
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29 Oct 2006, 10:30 am

Thanks again, everyone. He is in a social skills group in school with the social worker once a week and he is working on several different things with him. At our next meeting I will ask him about the social stories and see if he can try to help with this. He also has a lack of empathy. He once asked me if our dog dies can we get another one (I've had the dog since before he was born). Now our dog is sick and I wonder if he'll have any reaction either way when she dies. I often wonder, too, if I die will he be upset? Will his life just go on as usual and just accept it?

I know he loves me and I am so glad he is able to at least show his love even if he doesn't shout it from the rooftops.



sweetpraline
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29 Oct 2006, 10:50 am

Nina, don't feel bad. I believe your son loves you. He just has a different way of showing his love for you. It sounds like he has some sensory issues.

I don't remember telling my parents that I loved them either. I do love them but I don't feel like I need to tell them all the time. I also didn't like to be hugged either. When someone hugged me, I would have my arms down at my sides like I was bracing myself for it. I remember as a child whenever we would have family get togethers, I would avoid the relatives who gave out the sloppy wet kisses and the ones who tried to pinch my cheeks. And yes, people have told me that I was cold and unaffectionate, too.



SteveK
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29 Oct 2006, 11:59 am

Nina,

As for the dog, he may just not appreciate the attachment. It is DIFFERENT when there is a clear give/take and communication like between you and him. As for the social school, etc.... Don't expect much. I have not seen ANY that weren't QUACKS, and I am speaking on a HIGHER level. I don't see HOW they could handle it on a lower level, though some CLAIM to.(yeah right!)!

Do YOU love your SON? If so, maybe you should appreciate him more, and let him be. HECK, I haven't read the book "men are from mars, women are from venus", but maybe you should read THAT! It supposedly explains how the two sexes think differently. Why women accuse men of not listening enough, remembering dates, or showing love. Sound familiar? Imagine the chasm between you and your son being a bit wider, and you have it.

BTW the title of that book wasn't pulled out of thin air. The circle with a cross below it is the symbol for feminine, and also respresents VENUS, goddess of love! She had a planet named after her!! !! The circle with an arrow pointing out of it is the symbol for masculine, and the symbol for the god of war, and HE had a planet named after him! Just THAT tells you SOMETHING!

Steve



nina
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29 Oct 2006, 12:07 pm

I appreciate your input, but am sort of offended at the idea that I don't love and appreciate my son. That was my whole reason behind asking the question. I love my son more than life itself and just want him to be happy. That's why I want to understand him better.



SteveK
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29 Oct 2006, 12:27 pm

OK Nina, I can appreciate that. PLEASE don't let that stop you from doing something like reading that book. Your local library should have it. As for my statement asking if you love your son, realize that I act the SAME way, and my mother acts like YOU! I KNOW where your son is coming from. So PLEASE, if you are offended, I SINCERELY apologize! But PLEASE take the rest to heart.

BTW I don't know how many are in this position. If you talk to me about this, it is almost like talking to your son without any possible repercussions. That is often RARE! I would pay DEARLY for any person that was the emotional and psychological twin of a woman I was interested in. You know, the old deal about "You only get one chance to make a first impression".

Your son is probably a very nice kid and simply misunderstood and has trouble fitting in. I know it is that way with me.

Steve



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29 Oct 2006, 12:37 pm

Nina,

Are you sure that your son understands the meaning of a hug? Just because your daughter hugs you as a sign that she loves you, does not mean that your son will necessarily pick up the meaning behind hugging. Since he is only 8, he's still young enough to be taught what hugging actually means, but the key is not to make him hug you during times when he actually may not like you. By doing that, you will only weaken the meaning of a hug down to something perfunctory. Instead, try hugging him in response to his showing you affection (like when he draws those hearts), and also hug him whenever he does something really good. It's a sign of appreciation of the good things he does, and an appreciation of him as a person and as a son. Once he understands the message, he will probably be more inclined to hug you. 8)



SteveK
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29 Oct 2006, 1:13 pm

Stinky,

I think it is simply that he doesn't like that kind of touching, etc... I didn't EITHER. I'm sure he understands the concept, as I did. I STILL don't like the idea of shaking hands, but do it. Anyway, that IS one of the symptoms of Autism. There isn't relly anything bad with it.

Steve



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29 Oct 2006, 1:22 pm

SteveK,

I'm well aware that touch sensitivity is one of the symptoms of AS. However, it is possible to overcome touch sensitivity if one actually wants to do it. It's easier to want to overcome touch sensitivity if he himself wants to show affection in that way. For example, I like hugging people that are really really close to me, because I make that association in my mind.

Sure, in the end one can say that there is nothing wrong with the way that the son expresses emotion, but the standard is kind of arbitrary. Some aptitude in social skills is required to deal with other people, NT and AS alike. Yeah, there is nothing wrong necessarily with a person not wanting to learn social skills perceived as strictly suiting NTs, as long as that person understands and accepts the result of such actions.



sweetpraline
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29 Oct 2006, 1:43 pm

SteveK wrote:
Stinky,

I think it is simply that he doesn't like that kind of touching, etc... I didn't EITHER. I'm sure he understands the concept, as I did. I STILL don't like the idea of shaking hands, but do it. Anyway, that IS one of the symptoms of Autism. There isn't relly anything bad with it.

Steve


I agree. My little cousin is HFA and she doesn't like to be hugged either. If you touch her she might scream, melt down or slap your hand away.



Stinkypuppy
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29 Oct 2006, 2:34 pm

sweetpraline wrote:
I agree. My little cousin is HFA and she doesn't like to be hugged either. If you touch her she might scream, melt down or slap your hand away.


Yeah, she melts down, so don't try to hug her. Nina's son appears to take hugging a bit better than that, and does appear to show affection in his own way. What I'm trying to distinguish here is the physicality aspect of hugging, from the social skills aspect. If there is some physical component involved (e.g. touching is painful), then one will need a different manner of conveying the emotion. If the issue is primarily that of a child not wanting to do something because it's "inconvenient," then what to do is more obscure. I believe that in the end, all social conventions are taught. For example, what will stop a child from peeing in the middle of a floor of a restaurant, unless the child is taught to do something else?



paolo
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29 Oct 2006, 3:22 pm

When I was a child I didn’t like to be hugged. When I fell or I harmed myself in some way, thay say tha I shouted immediately: “It’s over, it’s over”, meaning the pain was over and I didn’t want to be physically consoled with a hug. In my family there were no hugs at all. My parents didn’t hug each other; they stuck together badly.

Later in life I remember few hugs that were really desired by me. In most cases they were perfunctory (parting, deaths, achievements). In one case I fell in love for a woman; she rejected me and that was it. But later I met her at a presentation of a book. I hugged her with such spontaneity and abandon that she felt it and told me: “I’ll come to see you in your house, up there”. She never did and that was it, for good, but I still remember well that hug. I had a sister, five years older than me. When we were adults, she was a safe haven for me, she was very sweet and important, but we never hugged.

Sometimes I digit “hug” on flickr.com. One reason I go often to see movies about intimate family life is that I want to see hugs. Hugs of the kind between mother and child. But they must be very good movies. I miss hugs, but I don’t think anybody should be forced into unwanted physical intimacy.



SteveK
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29 Oct 2006, 4:50 pm

OH STINKY! **I** get it! you want to use hugs as PUNISHMENT!! !! ! Well, that isn't a good idea. And you must think little of AS people. I once saw a seemingly NT person do that in someone else home ON PURPOSE! He LATER claimed he was asleep. I always doubted that. HECK, look at seinfeld or "big daddy"!

Anyway, it takes more than LOVE to stop that! They give you the idea ALL males are like that. I EVEN hate those stupid "SECRET" commercials! I have known women that were NOT nearly that putoff by that, and most men I know don't seem to be NEARLY that bad!

And they UNDERSTAND the connection. They just don't appreciate it if you FORCE them into it! Ever see charles addams comic strip, aptly called "The addams family"? One thing they did was cut those "ugly" flowers off the stems! If a womans fiance clipped the flowers off, KNOWING FULL WELL SHE LIKED THEM, would it be pleasing to her JUST because he said that showed his love for her?

What if she was ALLERGIC to roses, and he KNEW it, and sent her roses ANYWAY, with the flowers intact?

You are talking like a psychiatrist, but NOT like someone that truly wants to solve anything.

Steve