11 Year old - poor social skills and defiant behaviour

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Redpunto
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22 Feb 2012, 3:08 pm

I am not sure how to handle or deal with my sons sudden outbursts of anger, rudeness, and poor social skills?
In school he is fantastic and the teachers have nothing but praise for him. Fast forward to after school where he refised to do what he was asked and refused in a rude manner, made his younger sister cry, stuck his fingers in his ears when being speoken to and refused to talk to his grandparents/cousin when brought to their house for a visit.

Just feel at a loss as to what to do :-(

Thanks



Mummy_of_Peanut
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22 Feb 2012, 3:15 pm

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Mummy_of_Peanut
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22 Feb 2012, 3:34 pm

Hi

I'm not sure if I can advise much, but you're not alone. My daughter is 6 and we deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. She's not perfect at school, as she has concentration difficulties and her social skills cause her some problems. However, the teachers never have call to speak to me about anything. If her behaviour was the same at school as it is at home, I'm sure I would be confronted every day about some issue or another.

My mum has been the brunt of these outbursts of 'I hate you' and refusals to answer simple pleasantries like 'Hello, have you had a nice day?', since my daughter was a toddler. But, these days, everyone seems to get it, except for my dad. That said, at her best, you could not meet a more delightful child and I suspect you think the same about your son.

We've not started it yet, but we've been advised about trying social stories. Have you tried anything like that? I've also started an emotions book, as spoken about in 'Parenting a Child with Asperger Syndrome: 200 Tips and Strategies'. So far, we've not had much progress. But we've just started getting access to an educational psychologist, whom we hope to receive lots of advice and tips from.

I hope some more parents come to this thread, with their words of wisdom.

Good luck.


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22 Feb 2012, 5:29 pm

Has your son been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder? This is pretty standard behavior for kids on the spectrum, who can often "hold it in" all day at school, but are at their breaking point when they get home and fall completely apart. 11 is a not uncommon age for social deficits to come to a head. It generally means they are overwhelmed in school and afraid to show it there, but without either a diagnosis or some serious detective work, it will be difficult to say which thing is overwhelming.

When my son behaves this way, we ask him to go to his room and stay there until he is calm. We have discussed previously that this is not a punishment, but an opportunity for him to calm himself - and we don't restrict what he can do while he's there (although there is no TV and no gaming system, so he's with books and toys.) He sometimes draws, and sometimes stays in there for just a few minutes, but if he finds something that comforts him, he can be there all afternoon.

We have also made many accommodations at school - none of which were terribly difficult for the school to do (we found having a locker away from the other kids was a major source of relief, for one thing.)



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23 Feb 2012, 4:31 am

When I was around that age, I could be kind of a snot at home too. I have AS btw, but was only diagnosed a few years ago - I'm 47 now. I remember one of the things that upset me was the very fact that I was at home. At school, the other kids talked about going here or there with their family, being invited to this or that place with friends, going to scouts or some other extracirricular type thing, and I just went home to my "boring old family". I was angry that I never got to do anything fun or exciting like the other kids.

I'd suggest asking him if there is something he would like to join, or lessons he would like to take (karate comes to mind here, it's great for boys that age) or a friend he would like to have over more often. If he doesn't do that sort of thing, that is.

Another thing that infuriated me when I was around that age, was people talking down to me. I saw it as "talking down" and being condescending, but they were simply talking to me like they did to any other child. I wanted to be treated like an adult, like a peer. I knew I wouldn't get the privelages that adults did, but I wanted to be talked to like an adult. I hated being considered a child and I even loathed the word child. I especially hated being talked to like a child by the very people who knew me best and knew that I really didn't think or act like a child, my family. I don't know if that could be the case either, but it's worth a look see.

Then again, I've got four kids, all NT's and they are close together in age. At that age, they do nothing but pick, pick, pick at each other. That's something I don't miss, now that they are teens and one is grown and gone.


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Lyll
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23 Feb 2012, 6:07 am

I agree with Momsparky. I think your child is doing so much efforts to comply at school that he builds up frustration and bursts at home. It is very good in a way since he trusts you enough to do it in front of you . Maybe you should help him find a way to get that overload out when he comes back from school. (punching a boxing bag, running or doing some physical exercise, danse, sing very loud, scream, make a drawing of his frustration, talk about his day and anything that bothered him while having a drink or a snack ...anything that can let that pressure out). Establish a 'release ritual' right after school. I am sure you will find that he is much calmer after that.



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23 Feb 2012, 4:27 pm

If its a meltdown he probably is holding it in all day but it sounds more to me like they maybe have more structure at school. Does he say he likes school?
What you say is that he is rude to you and sticks his finger in his ears when you speak to him. This, Im sorry to say, sounds more like a disciplinary problem. Maybe you should set up a schedule and reward system at home and DO NOT put up with obvious rude behavior. I get irritated when people let their kids call them names, hit them ect when they are obviously not having a meltdown.

Like "I want this candy bar?" (first not an appropriate way to ask)....Mom says no, kid hits Mom calls her a name or says he hates her ect. This is a temper tantrum. The problem is our kids can not be disciplined or "punished" like other kids because there may be underlying causes to this behavior. First find out what is going on.....its why I asked if he liked school. Maybe he is hungry when he comes home from school.....like I said a schedule will help and also reasoning and a lot of talking, planning and explaining.....I ask my son if he likes being talked to the way he talks to me, he says no. We may have to have this conversation a few times before it sinks in but not getting a token for inappropriate behavior or not doing what is asked or expected of him is a loss of his reward and this works better than punishment.

I do not believe that kids should be excused for bad behavior because they are Autistic. This just breeds a generation of rude kids who think its ok to be that way because they have Autistm. I had someone that I spoke to recently who was appalled that my nearly 7 year old classic autistic daughter has chores. This teaches her to take care of her things and make her bed, hang up her coat and back pack, put her dirty clothes in the hamper and ask before taking food, ect. This is my job as a Mom.....this is a bad thing?



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24 Feb 2012, 2:34 am

Redpunto wrote:
I am not sure how to handle or deal with my sons sudden outbursts of anger, rudeness, and poor social skills?
In school he is fantastic and the teachers have nothing but praise for him. Fast forward to after school where he refised to do what he was asked and refused in a rude manner, made his younger sister cry, stuck his fingers in his ears when being speoken to and refused to talk to his grandparents/cousin when brought to their house for a visit.

Just feel at a loss as to what to do :-(

Thanks


Well on the surface that's easy, he's putting a lot of energy in controlling himself at school.....and when he comes home he's worn out from it and is less able to control his behavior. I kind of had this issue as a kid to, I would do fine at school but I could only handle so much and when I got home to my comfort zone I was more likely to lose control because there was not quite so much pressure. So what I would advise is encourage him to maybe cool off in his room for instance when he starts getting irritable.

Also I am not implying rude behavior is ok, but I would keep in mind sometimes due to the lack of social skills or misunderstanding of them a lot of people with autism struggle with.......its more coming off as rude than actually being rude, and yes the difference is important. At least from my perspective.


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24 Feb 2012, 2:39 am

liloleme wrote:
If its a meltdown he probably is holding it in all day but it sounds more to me like they maybe have more structure at school. Does he say he likes school?
What you say is that he is rude to you and sticks his finger in his ears when you speak to him. This, Im sorry to say, sounds more like a disciplinary problem. Maybe you should set up a schedule and reward system at home and DO NOT put up with obvious rude behavior. I get irritated when people let their kids call them names, hit them ect when they are obviously not having a meltdown.


I have an alternative perspective which might apply......If it indeed is a form of meltdown maybe he's covering his ears because of loudness. I know when I was a kid and started getting that pre-meltdown irritable everything always seemed much louder, and on top of that my mom actually did yell very loudly at me and my siblings whenever she got mad. many times I ended up covering my ears to keep her screaming out because it was painful. So to the OP if you yell at him when he's exhibiting this behavior I would suggest you avoid doing that because its bound to make it worse.

That said when he covers his ears does he do anything that makes it obvious he is trying to be defiant or does it seem more like he's experiencing discomfort? I mean if he is doing it to be rude I don't think it should be excused, but it could have to do with sensory issues as well.


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24 Feb 2012, 9:55 am

Every kid is different: with my son, fingers in his ears generally means he's flooded, or totally overwhelmed, (which on the surface looks defiant, but is different) and can't take in any more information. We have found that this is an indicator for us to back off and wait until he can process information again.

When my son is having a sensory issue, he usually curls into a ball and covers his head.

What I'm getting at: behavior is communication - each child may use the same thing to communicate something different. Part of the job of parents is to figure out what their child is actually communicating and responding to that. Communication develops at different rates in all children; all kids start with ineffective and sometimes inappropriate ways of communicating their needs and wants. It's our job to figure out what they are communicating, and then give them tools to get their message across accurately and appropriately.



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24 Feb 2012, 11:37 am

My autie (classic autistic) has the stress issue of holding things in most of the day. We have worked out that I do not talk to her when she comes home. We use PECS....like I said schedule and "sameness" is helpful but sometimes you need a "change" card when things happen like we are forced to go somewhere or I have to go to the hospital. Some things are hard to plan so having a "change" in your schedule is helpful but trying to prepare them is important.

As I said, there could be underlying causes and maybe not talking to him or allowing him to decompress when he comes home. We have a snack and, its nice that my son comes home after my daughter because he can be loud or quiet depending on his day. Still I dont like rudeness and I have taught my kids that there is a "nice" way to talk to people and a mean rude way. Sometimes you have to point this out many many times. Take my son for instance, he does not see the behavior in himself that is displayed by others and annoy him. Like last night we were watching one of our movies that we watch a lot and my daughter comments on the same parts and my son gets angry but then I had to point out when he did it....I did not say, "You do the same thing"....I waited for him to do it. He has a boy in school who is just like him and sometimes they get along very well but other times they annoy each other but what is most annoying to them is behavior that they share but do not see in each other.

It is difficult sometimes to figure out if a kid is just being defiant because he knows he can get away with it or because he is having sensory issues. I can read my kids and when my son sticks his fingers in his ears when Im talking to him I tell him that is not appropriate because I may have something important that I need to speak to him about and he needs to listen. If he cant listen we set a time to sit down and talk, I think you son is at an age where he could handle that....Also this comes down to ability to get them to speak. We have been working with both of my kids to ask for help instead of screaming or having a meltdown. My son will get very irritated that he cant open something or that something will not work. My Father is 67 years old and still does things like this or gets angry when he looses at games, he flies off the handle when he cant do something.....I also will do this at times but I have learned to control myself (I just got DX about 4 years ago so I did not get all the therapy my kids are getting so sometimes I learn from what they are learning. I do understand how they feel however I also understand that learning that if you ask for help, people are willing to help, and its not as stressful and does not upset everyone including ourselves. Like I said in my first post it takes lots of talking and explaining and even modeling for an Autistic child or person to start to get the hang of some things. When my oldest son died in August my Autie, of course, did not understand but was trying so hard to get me to self calm....she kept telling me to take deep breaths. It was hard but we tried to keep both my kids away from me during that time so I could morn and I would not upset them too much. My son was very upset and he still is not ready to talk about his brother or death which we respect but we also tell him that when he is ready he can talk about it no matter where we are. With my luck it will be in the middle of a family reunion or something :lol: .

The is the mentality that I dont like (and no one is displaying that here, just to clarify) is when people just say oh well, they are Autistic or Aspergers so they just act that way. Its fine to say to people if you are out in public and tired of people staring at you as you are trying to help your large 9 year old out to the car when he is having a meltdown, my son has Asperger's and is well aware of his Asperger's and he knows its why these things happen. I think due to the fact that I have Asperger's and in his school and in therapy he is surrounded by Autistic people and kids who understand it makes it all easier for him, we live more in an Autistic world than in a "typical" world so I need to expose my kids to more "typical" people and help them to understand them. To us, we arent different, they are...too bad we cant keep it that way but I cant turn my kids into hermits. That will be their decision when they are adults.
In the same respect, I also do not like the people who refuse to understand that our sensory systems are off sometimes and its impossible to deal with people or sounds, smells ect. We need to get away or practice our self soothing or be allowed to stimm. I had a woman who had her son in my sons social group and we would watch the kids on a TV while they were in the other room, however she did have her daughters and even their friends with her in earshot and I did not doubt that she spoke to her son in the same way. She would continually call her son a "jerk" or a "jack a**"......It was very upsetting to me and I finally had to say. I have Asperger's and your son is not being a jerk he is overwhelmed, he just started social training and it will take him some time to understand and learn some things. She basically ignored me and talked to the other Mother's with obviously the same metality, about raising his "medications".....I thought this boy was just being typical Aspie, he got upset because his game was not chosen but she didnt seem to notice that some of the other boys did too including my son.

Anyway, I also do not expect my kids to be forced social. I do want them to be somewhat polite and I tell them if they want to they can go in their sensory room or in their room if they dont want to be around the people in our house. I do expect them to say "Hello" and "goodbye" but not to force them to socialize if they dont want to. Also, and people may not agree, but I do want people to have some semblance of understanding my kids. They have recently met their Grandparents here in France (we moved here a year and a half ago). My Father in Law gave my daughter a case of PTSD by yelling at her because she accidentally broke a glass. She now freaks out when she spills or breaks anything, we are slowly helping her to understand that sometimes things happen on accident and Papi is working on learning to understand my kids. My In Laws are very helpful other than that first incident (my Mother in law gave him heck for about an hour about it, poor guy ;) ) as I have been in and out of the hospital because of my auto immune disease. So people who come into your house do need to learn that they are sort of like invaders. We do need to have a haven and it is disturbing to me when people come here and stay more than 3 or 4 days but my husband can not do everything. I am going to a spinal hospital in two weeks for two weeks and it is 20 minutes away so its going to be very hard. Its why we built a sensory room for the kids and when I have to have surgery Im am planning to fly my 21 year old daughter out to be with my kids as she lived with us for years before we moved and she understands them. I am really worried though about my kids through this two weeks.

There is nothing wrong with teaching our kids manners but we also need to understand....and I know as I also have Asperger's that there is some behavior that we are able to control. I mean he is 11 years old...puberty is tough, I know, I remember, and his social skills may be even worse right now but he also may need you more right now even if he seems to be pushing you away. He is stuck between being a kid and being a teenager. However I should think at his age he would not need you to "read" him as much as if he were much younger....if he puts his fingers in his ears,in my opinion, he wants you to shut up and I cant see how that is acceptable. You can ask him gently if the house is too loud but you said its when you ask him to do something....maybe after he decompresses you can start making requests of him. I have chores for my kids to do and my kids are 9 and 6 and my 6 year old did not speak until she was between 3 and 4. Still after a long hard day of school....especially with puberty coming on, he needs decompression or alone time and Id put that on his schedule so hes not overwhelmed when he comes home.

Im not saying my kids are perfect little angels but as parents we need to teach them some things. We need to teach them to be somewhat polite. He is only a few years away from high school and then college, he does need to learn some manners and he also needs to learn to understand when he is at his limit....or at least begin to understand this. We do not yell in our house....I call my husband on my cell phone if he is at the other side of the house as getting up and walking is really hard for me at night.....my kids still yell but they are still working on volume control. My kids meltdowns are short because we have learned to defuse them and to help them to learn coping mechanisms. Also we "model" how we want them to act. Since we moved here and I dont have my three oldest coming and going all the time things are a lot easier.

There is no easy solution and as was pointed out, no kid is alike no matter what. Everyone has their own personality. My husband freaks when Im not here sometimes because I can defuse my kids better than he can, I understand them and sometimes he gets too overwhelmed. When we are together we can take turns....it helps to have someone to bounce ideas off off and to help when you have had enough. If you dont have a schedule for him I would highly recommend that...I have seen people say that schedules are for babies then I must be a baby. I can not function without my calendar....it is my schedule...just like my husband can not function without his planner. My kids have their schedules posted on the wall....we still use PECS as my son has dyslexia and my daughter is learning French but still had communication issues in both English and her limited French. We do write the words on the pictures though. It really can make a huge difference!