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Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 10:14 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INll6Y5iqbM[/youtube]

Discuss.



MDD123
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20 Mar 2012, 11:28 am

I have mixed feelings on this. Homosexuality and alcoholism might be illegal under sharia law, but everyone who wants to do it will do it anyway, I know that from primary sources. My understanding of Islam is that followers are taught to get their way at any cost. But like any message, people pick and choose their own rules and learn the consequences on their own.

Take a look at our history, we found a country based on equality for everyone and we still take our time actually implementing those ideals. I think anywhere you go, you'll see that the people who obtain power are hesitant to share it and would stab somebody's grandma in the dark before relinquishing it.

If I have to be called an islamophobe for realizing Islams sub standard treatment of women, and insistence of might over logic, then I'll be an islamophobe, someone is going to have to explain to me how it isn't the religion when so many offenders themselves claim the religion inspires and justifies rape, murder, and any variation of anti cohesiveness they wish to exhibit.



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20 Mar 2012, 11:32 am

Islam is a violent religion with submission as one of its core values. This "submission" paradigm is what leads many Muslim men to dominate their wives and treat men they consider of "lower class" with contempt. Like other theistic religions it is irrational and superstitious and has caused untold harm to countless lives


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Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 11:34 am

MDD123 wrote:
I have mixed feelings on this. Homosexuality and alcoholism might be illegal under sharia law, but everyone who wants to do it will do it anyway,


Where Sharia law dominates...



Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 11:36 am

Vigilans wrote:
Islam is a violent religion with submission as one of its core values. This "submission" paradigm is what leads many Muslim men to dominate their wives and treat men they consider of "lower class" with contempt. Like other theistic religions it is irrational and superstitious and has caused untold harm to countless lives


So you agree with yon man in my little video?



Vigilans
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20 Mar 2012, 11:37 am

Tequila wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Islam is a violent religion with submission as one of its core values. This "submission" paradigm is what leads many Muslim men to dominate their wives and treat men they consider of "lower class" with contempt. Like other theistic religions it is irrational and superstitious and has caused untold harm to countless lives


So you agree with yon man in my little video?


I cannot watch any videos right now as I'm near my download/upload limit, I just thought I would contribute what I consider a "truth" about Islam. A few days from now I'll watch it though


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hyperlexian
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20 Mar 2012, 11:44 am

i watched 30 seconds and found that he was already clueless. non-muslim women get hurt and killed by their husbands too. the only difference is that the perpetrators don't use religion as an excuse to do so.

seems like the real issue (in that small part of the clip i watched) is violence against women and patriarchal societies that enable it (including ours).

feminism works to change those things, and has made some great strides in some societies. Tequila it is interesting that you are using this sort of violence as a reason to put down Islam (i.e. posting the video), yet you are opposed to one of the most effective movements that seeks to change it.


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Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 11:53 am

How about this? Here's the transcript:

Quote:
The Islamophobia industry is quick to whine and complain at every opportunity, as everybody knows, and lately they've been whining and complaining about what they call "negative coverage" of Islam in the British media - by which they mean truthful coverage, although in truth we don't get nearly enough of that. For example, when it was revealed recently that there has been a large increase in so called "honour" violence, where Muslim women are brutalised and murdered by members of their own family, nowhere in the BBC report did it mention the one crucial ingredient, the religion of peace. This salient piece of information was carefully airbrushed out, as if to imply that this is a British phenomenon, as if society as a whole is to blame.

Similarly, we're always hearing about organised gangs of Muslim men exploiting and raping underage girls, yet the media never refer to these men by the religion whose misogynistic values have shaped their view of women, preferring instead to label them "Asians", which is a gross slander on Hindus and Sikhs who don't engage in this kind of behaviour, yet who are tarred with the same brush by cowardly and dishonest journalists afraid to offend the whining oversensitive professional victims of Islam.

People often say the bad things about Islam are cultural, not religious. Really? What happens in Saudi Arabia isn't culture. It's pure religion, it's pure Islam, and it's pure insanity. We're talking about a country run with an iron fist by a handful of brutal conservative religious clerics. A country where they execute people for witchcraft, where they execute gay people and treat women as a subhuman species, and where gangs of fanatical scripture-sodden ignoramuses are allowed to roam the streets enforcing sharia with medieval rigour.

The religion is the problem, not the culture. The problem with Iran is the religion, not the culture. Iranians are not Arabs, but they've been conquered by an alien Arab religion, and now their country's entire focus is on an Arab situation - Palestine - not an Iranian one. This is because the religious fanatics who control Iran against the wishes of its people are insane. Their minds are so pickled by their barbaric religion and they're so obsessed with killing Jews they're determined for force a nuclear showdown. They're driven by powerful apocalyptic religious delusions which they intend to act upon the first chance they get. They're of the same mentality as the religious fanatics who controlled Europe hundreds of years ago, and if those people had had nuclear weapons none of us would be here now.

Many of the Muslims here in Britain, including the gangs of child rapists (all of them), come from Pakistan where the culture is shaped by the religion and blasphemy is a capital offence. It's what the religion demands, and the culture does what it's told, otherwise the religion will mobilise a mob of illiterate savages to riot in the streets, and scores, if not hundreds, of people are likely to be killed. The religion is the problem, not the culture. (The culture isn't great by any means, but without the religion it would be a damn sight better.)

And we in Britain are busy importing that religion wholesale into our society where it's about as welcome as the Norman invasion, despite all the platitudes and lies we hear from politicians about tolerance and respect and "community cohesion", because people have learned, as they've learned everywhere in the West, that this is far more than just a religion. It's an invasive political supremacist ideology that exploits religious freedom and cultural guilt to impose itself with constant demands for special treatment always backed by the implicit threat of conflict and violence. In other words, through cultural terrorism. So whether it's prayer rooms crowbarred into the workplace where they don't belong, Muslims allowed to pray in the street and block traffic, medical staff allowed to ignore hygiene rules, the police turning a blind eye to genital mutilation, universities letting jihadists recruit on campus, Sharia courts dehumanising women, or the imposition of halal-only food on the entire population - without their knowledge or consent - society, it seems, must always bow to the unreasonable demands of Islam, and anyone who dares to object is either vilified as a racist or openly threatened with violence.

This is what the media should be saying about Islam if journalists had the guts to do their job and tell the truth, because it is the truth, and everybody knows it's the truth.

And you can call me a 'racist' for saying so if you want to, and a 'hatemonger' and a 'bigot' and all the rest of it - go through the card, be my guest - but when you finally run out of names it will still be the truth. Sorry about that.

Thanks to our moral cowardice, we now have hundreds of unregulated madrassas in Britain teaching tens of thousands of children to despise the culture they live in. That bodes well for the future of "community cohesion", doesn't it? A madrassa, in case you didn't know, is an Islamic school. In other words, it's the kind of place where you're likely to come out even more ignorant than when you went in. And just last month we had a good example of the kind of mentality these places encourage when three Muslim men were convicted of stirring up hatred by passing out leaflets calling for gay people to be executed. They pleaded guilty, by all accounts, but to my mind it would have been more accurate and more honest if they had pleaded insanity. One of them said he did it because he wants to improve society. Well, there's a simple way for him to do that - emigrate and take all his bigoted fuzzy-faced friends with him. The prosecution argued that the leaflets were not educational when, in fact, they were extremely educational, in that they plainly stated what Islam actually teaches, and not what its mealy-mouthed apologists would like to pretend it teaches.

Islam does call for the death penalty for homosexuality.It's a fact. And in countries where it's allowed to call the shots they enthusiastically carry it out. Thanks to unwanted mass Islamic immigration, there are parts of Europe today where, if you make it known that you're gay (or Jewish, for that matter) you are virtually asking to be physically attacked. It's an indisputable fact that the more Muslims there are in a society - not Asians, Muslims - the less safe it's likely to be for gay people or Jews, or women, or anyone attempting to exercise their fundamental right to freedom of speech.

So where exactly is all the positive coverage of this wretched religion supposed to come from? A religion that routinely responds to the slightest criticism by feigning a ludicrous knee-jerk sensitivity, when its own scripture is a handbook of insensitivity, brutality and social division. Slay the infidel wherever you find him. Execute gay people. Murder apostates. Subjugate women. Wipe out the Jews.

Such an ideology has no claim on sensitivity, and the opinions of those who push it should be given less consideration than other people's, not more.

Peace.



Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 11:54 am

hyperlexian wrote:
seems like the real issue (in that small part of the clip i watched) is violence against women and patriarchal societies that enable it (including ours).


Or gay people. Or Jews. Or anyone else they don't like.



hyperlexian
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20 Mar 2012, 12:29 pm

you overlooked the part where i pointed out that these problems exist in non-Islamic patriarchal societies as well. women get murdered by Christian husbands too. and atheist ones. etc.


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Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 12:47 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
women get murdered by Christian husbands too. and atheist ones. etc.


They do, but the problem isn't anywhere near as serious as it is with Islam.



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20 Mar 2012, 12:49 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
you overlooked the part where i pointed out that these problems exist in non-Islamic patriarchal societies as well. women get murdered by Christian husbands too. and atheist ones. etc.


In what amount? Are they at a 1:1:1 ratio? It's funny how you're a feminist but appear to be defending Islam which is a religion which says that you should shut up about feminism because you embarrass your husband. It's one of the many dodgy positions held by the left.



Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 12:52 pm

TM wrote:
It's funny how you're a feminist but appear to be defending Islam which is a religion which says that you should shut up about feminism because you embarrass your husband.


Exactly. The only reason that people like hyperlexian can hold the beliefs that they do and express them without fear of state or extra-state violence against her are because of freedoms we enjoy in the Western world. Freedoms that simply don't exist in theocratic Muslim hellholes. Talking about your opinions openly there will earn you very harsh treatment.

A lot of these left-wing feminists seem to rather have a blind spot when it comes to Islam and don't condemn some of the appalling abuses carried out in the name of the Religion of Peace for fear of being branded racists or intolerant or, perhaps, threatened with physical or sexual violence.



TM
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20 Mar 2012, 1:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
It's funny how you're a feminist but appear to be defending Islam which is a religion which says that you should shut up about feminism because you embarrass your husband.


Exactly. The only reason that people like hyperlexian can hold the beliefs that they do and express them without fear of state or extra-state violence against her are because of freedoms we enjoy in the Western world. Freedoms that simply don't exist in theocratic Muslim hellholes. Talking about your opinions openly there will earn you very harsh treatment.

A lot of these left-wing feminists seem to rather have a blind spot when it comes to Islam and don't condemn some of the appalling abuses carried out in the name of the Religion of Peace for fear of being branded racists or intolerant or, perhaps, threatened with physical or sexual violence.


It's what I like to call the "Leftist" Catch 22. It's rather circular, there is the statement "If you tolerate intolerance, you're not a liberal" so in that regard one cannot tolerate the intolerance of Islam towards homosexuals, women, believers in other religions or no religion at all and things like freedom of speech. However, if one does not tolerate it, one is automatically branded a racist in accordance with the left wing view.

In this case, she has to "tolerate" Islam even if the entirety of the religion is anti-women and its why the concept of "tolerance" is idiotic.



Tequila
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20 Mar 2012, 1:08 pm

TM wrote:
In this case, she has to "tolerate" Islam even if the entirety of the religion is anti-women and its why the concept of "tolerance" is idiotic.


Exactly.

No tolerating intolerance.
No excuses for being free.



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20 Mar 2012, 1:27 pm

Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
It's funny how you're a feminist but appear to be defending Islam which is a religion which says that you should shut up about feminism because you embarrass your husband.


Exactly. The only reason that people like hyperlexian can hold the beliefs that they do and express them without fear of state or extra-state violence against her are because of freedoms we enjoy in the Western world. Freedoms that simply don't exist in theocratic Muslim hellholes. Talking about your opinions openly there will earn you very harsh treatment.

A lot of these left-wing feminists seem to rather have a blind spot when it comes to Islam and don't condemn some of the appalling abuses carried out in the name of the Religion of Peace for fear of being branded racists or intolerant or, perhaps, threatened with physical or sexual violence.

it seems like YOU have a blind spot about your own culture. do you have any idea how many women are killed or abused by non-Islamic men?


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