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Onyxaxe
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27 Mar 2012, 1:44 pm

Thanks everyone. This has probably been the most defining thread for my symptoms. I can relate to everything on here that people took the time to define. Even though theoretically I could say I am socially disabled why should I?. I don't don "flaws or disabilities, faults" etc unless I have to. The rest of the world needs to be more thoughtful lol. Again thanks to everyone for their input. It's helped a lot.



Mummy_of_Peanut
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27 Mar 2012, 1:53 pm

OP, You say you are shy, but are not disabled by it and consider yourself to be reserved. Are you sure you're not confusing shyness with introversion? They are totally separate entities. Beng introverted is fine, you need your own space to unwind and re-energise. Being shy can cause major problems. At it's worst, shy people do not meet their potential and can become excluded from living their lives. This does not happen to people who are just introverted. Introversion does not prevent someone from being confident and assertive, shyness does (I know this all too well). Not all people with Aspergers are shy. Not all are introverted either, although I think the majority on here claim to be.

But, there's much to Aspergers (and any other autistic spectrum disorder) than the social aspects. Most people on here have sensory issues, many have obsessions, some have concentration difficulties (or can hyper-focus to an amazing level), poor co-ordination, mood swings, take things literally and so on. Everyone is completely different and no two people have the same list of traits or to the same extent.


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27 Mar 2012, 2:00 pm

Asperger's, like the rest of the autistic spectrum, is more than a social/communication disorder.

For many of us it is a disability that affects most if not all aspects of our life.



Onyxaxe
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27 Mar 2012, 8:22 pm

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
OP, You say you are shy, but are not disabled by it and consider yourself to be reserved. Are you sure you're not confusing shyness with introversion? They are totally separate entities. Beng introverted is fine, you need your own space to unwind and re-energise. Being shy can cause major problems. At it's worst, shy people do not meet their potential and can become excluded from living their lives. This does not happen to people who are just introverted. Introversion does not prevent someone from being confident and assertive, shyness does (I know this all too well). Not all people with Aspergers are shy. Not all are introverted either, although I think the majority on here claim to be.

But, there's much to Aspergers (and any other autistic spectrum disorder) than the social aspects. Most people on here have sensory issues, many have obsessions, some have concentration difficulties (or can hyper-focus to an amazing level), poor co-ordination, mood swings, take things literally and so on. Everyone is completely different and no two people have the same list of traits or to the same extent.


I am both, but more introverted now then shy. As a young child I was shy and felt like everyone was out to get me. I fail to see how shyness is a disability but that's a little insensitive so I'll leave it there. The last thing I wanna do is condemn people for something I'm unable to comprehend.



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27 Mar 2012, 9:16 pm

I love the advice they give to a shy person, in a confidence course. "Just stop caring". I would like to see them say that to someone who does not care & say "just start caring".

I just don't like them saying "lack of confidence", rather than "it just takes time". It was ok to be shy, until they decided to grab hold of it. Like always, they cause a wake of destruction. We just like observing, before showing ourselves.


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27 Mar 2012, 9:22 pm

Invader wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I'm tired of hearing about "shyness" as a disorder. I'm reserved and it ain't no disorder. That's not why I'm seeking out an Aspergers diagnosis. I'm trying to get help for the dark thoughts, obsessiveness, mood swings, self harm. Everytime I try to find out why I can't control my limbs or etc etc They start the talk about "autistics and people on the ASD's inability to communicate efficently". I mean does everyone here actually feel disabled or is Aspergers purely an inability to mend with others?. That isn't even a problem for me unless I feel like my head's about to explode and then I want to be left alone. Am I seeking the wrong diagnosis or are people that determined to make people with Aspergers extroverted like everyone else?. For me whatever I have is as crippling as a broken leg.


If there are no sensory issues then it is probably not an autistic disorder.


Sensory issues are only one of many possible symptoms. Lack of sensory issues does not rule out Autism, just as lack of any other single symptom does not rule it out. There is no single symptom one "must have" in order to have Autism. Autism is a collection of possible symtoms one must have the correct number of in the correct categories.


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27 Mar 2012, 9:59 pm

I think for most people, social problems is only half of the condition. If you look at the DSM, catagory I is social issues, catagory II is obsessions, sensory issues, motor problems, and rituals and routines. There are often many other mood disorders, learning disorders, or other connections that are often co-morbidly connected. For me, aspergers is mostly social (about 90%) for many its not. Although in the media they seem to focus mostly on the lack of social skills.



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27 Mar 2012, 10:36 pm

Aspergers is currently characterized, in the US under the DSMIV (diagnostic manual), as a disorder with impairments in social interaction; along with restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities.

However, in the DSMV under the current proposed revision, the disorder is soon to be subsumed under the diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder and becomes a disorder that is characterized by deficits in social communication and social interaction; along with restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities

In the US, per current diagnostic criteria in the DSMIV, this:

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-aspergers.html

Quote:
Asperger's Syndrome

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."




And proposed revised in the DSMV, in the US, sometime in the near future, this:

http://www.dsm5.org/proposedrevisions/pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=94#

Quote:
Autism Spectrum Disorder

Must meet criteria A, B, C, and D:

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across contexts, not accounted for by general developmental delays, and manifest by all 3 of the following:

1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity; ranging from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back and forth conversation through reduced sharing of interests, emotions, and affect and response to total lack of initiation of social interaction,

2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction; ranging from poorly integrated- verbal and nonverbal communication, through abnormalities in eye contact and body-language, or deficits in understanding and use of nonverbal communication, to total lack of facial expression or gestures.

3. Deficits in developing and maintaining relationships, appropriate to developmental level (beyond those with caregivers); ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. Stereotyped or repetitive speech, motor movements, or use of objects; (such as simple motor stereotypies, echolalia, repetitive use of objects, or idiosyncratic phrases).

2. Excessive adherence to routines, ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior, or excessive resistance to change; (such as motoric rituals, insistence on same route or food, repetitive questioning or extreme distress at small changes).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).

4. Hyper-or hypo-reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of environment; (such as apparent indifference to pain/heat/cold, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, fascination with lights or spinning objects).

C. Symptoms must be present in early childhood (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities)

D. Symptoms together limit and impair everyday functioning.



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28 Mar 2012, 9:47 am

I wonder if not many of our social issues are grounded in our sensory issues?



Mummy_of_Peanut
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28 Mar 2012, 9:55 am

Onyxaxe wrote:
I am both, but more introverted now then shy. As a young child I was shy and felt like everyone was out to get me. I fail to see how shyness is a disability but that's a little insensitive so I'll leave it there. The last thing I wanna do is condemn people for something I'm unable to comprehend.
I would not call shyness a disability either, but it can be disabling, if that makes sense. For example, when I was younger, I was shy and social anxiety became a major part of my life. I was perfectly capable of getting my honours degree, but I left with an ordinary degree, because I was petrified of the social aspects of the 4th year. In effect, I wasted 3years, as an ordinary degree is next to worthless here. After a successful taught post-grad, I ended up in an admin job and the social aspects of that caused me no end of stress. Chances of progression were minimal, because I couldn't just get on with my job. I would procrastinate over simple things like making a phone call, speaking to a manager or delegating work. Shyness and social anxiety can stunt your life chances. For me, it mainly had an impact on education and work, but for others, meeting prospective partners and new friends can be terribly difficult.


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Onyxaxe
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05 Apr 2012, 2:42 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Onyxaxe wrote:
I am both, but more introverted now then shy. As a young child I was shy and felt like everyone was out to get me. I fail to see how shyness is a disability but that's a little insensitive so I'll leave it there. The last thing I wanna do is condemn people for something I'm unable to comprehend.
I would not call shyness a disability either, but it can be disabling, if that makes sense. For example, when I was younger, I was shy and social anxiety became a major part of my life. I was perfectly capable of getting my honours degree, but I left with an ordinary degree, because I was petrified of the social aspects of the 4th year. In effect, I wasted 3years, as an ordinary degree is next to worthless here. After a successful taught post-grad, I ended up in an admin job and the social aspects of that caused me no end of stress. Chances of progression were minimal, because I couldn't just get on with my job. I would procrastinate over simple things like making a phone call, speaking to a manager or delegating work. Shyness and social anxiety can stunt your life chances. For me, it mainly had an impact on education and work, but for others, meeting prospective partners and new friends can be terribly difficult.


That's how it is for me as well. Not to sound emo but my life's been pretty unfair so I guess I never noticed or allowed myself to feel that way. I totally agree with you though. I should be in College right now but I hate people in general so much that I just decided not to go and rough it for the rest of my life.



Onyxaxe
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05 Apr 2012, 2:44 am

aghogday wrote:
Aspergers is currently characterized, in the US under the DSMIV (diagnostic manual), as a disorder with impairments in social interaction; along with restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities.

However, in the DSMV under the current proposed revision, the disorder is soon to be subsumed under the diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder and becomes a disorder that is characterized by deficits in social communication and social interaction; along with restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities

In the US, per current diagnostic criteria in the DSMIV, this:

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-aspergers.html

Quote:
Asperger's Syndrome

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."




And proposed revised in the DSMV, in the US, sometime in the near future, this:

http://www.dsm5.org/proposedrevisions/pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=94#

Quote:
Autism Spectrum Disorder

Must meet criteria A, B, C, and D:

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across contexts, not accounted for by general developmental delays, and manifest by all 3 of the following:

1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity; ranging from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back and forth conversation through reduced sharing of interests, emotions, and affect and response to total lack of initiation of social interaction,

2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction; ranging from poorly integrated- verbal and nonverbal communication, through abnormalities in eye contact and body-language, or deficits in understanding and use of nonverbal communication, to total lack of facial expression or gestures.

3. Deficits in developing and maintaining relationships, appropriate to developmental level (beyond those with caregivers); ranging from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit different social contexts through difficulties in sharing imaginative play and in making friends to an apparent absence of interest in people

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. Stereotyped or repetitive speech, motor movements, or use of objects; (such as simple motor stereotypies, echolalia, repetitive use of objects, or idiosyncratic phrases).

2. Excessive adherence to routines, ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior, or excessive resistance to change; (such as motoric rituals, insistence on same route or food, repetitive questioning or extreme distress at small changes).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus; (such as strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).

4. Hyper-or hypo-reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of environment; (such as apparent indifference to pain/heat/cold, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, fascination with lights or spinning objects).

C. Symptoms must be present in early childhood (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities)

D. Symptoms together limit and impair everyday functioning.


Anyone else have problems with the rainbows on that site? Had the first tick of the whole day due to the intensity of that lol.



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05 Apr 2012, 3:26 am

Due to social disorder all other problems are cropping up.
If i cant make friends i cant understand social cues
i cant hold onto jobs due to good peer relationship
i cant have good relationship with relatives and that effects my marriage
all aspects of life are badly harmed due to lack of social skills and appropriate interaction
which leads to depression, loneliness and isolation


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05 Apr 2012, 4:18 am

TechnoDog wrote:
I love the advice they give to a shy person, in a confidence course. "Just stop caring". I would like to see them say that to someone who does not care & say "just start caring".

I just don't like them saying "lack of confidence", rather than "it just takes time". It was ok to be shy, until they decided to grab hold of it. Like always, they cause a wake of destruction. We just like observing, before showing ourselves.


Thats a new one on me "just stop caring". :roll:

I was always described as very shy as a child, I believed them that the name for what I had was "Shy & oversensitive with an overdeveloped sense of justice". But I was very bright too, so no problem.

I was walking proof that shy people could be more confident and assertive than any other children! :lol: If I heard someone complaining about some injustice I would march over to the perpetrator and have it out with them, really shy!

Its a lot more than "shy". Now I know what "shy" really means I know that wasn't the problem. I was clueless as to how to become included in other childrens' play and couldn't tell them apart easily anyway. Then if I was included I would be secretly wondering why we were doing these things in this game, which made them not much fun anyway. Not to mention my mistaken belief that I was really a boy in disguise (until puberty disillusioned me there). There is a long list of reason's why I seldom played with other children, only a tiny part was "shyness".

That doesn't even touch on my sensory issues and later depression.

No-one got me assessed for the same reason no-one got my foot x-rayed when I broke it, I limped around with a stick for a few weeks until I learnt to walk on the other side of it, but it was only x-rayed after I hurt it again as an adult.

If they can't recognise a broken foot, they can't recognise anything!



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05 Apr 2012, 4:50 am

Only a social disorder?

If Autism was 'only' a social disorder, that would already be more than enough to cope with, for me at least.


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05 Apr 2012, 4:52 am

Like people said, there's so much more to autism than social issues, for instance sensory things