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The inscrutable Christian marriage dynamic

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Ragtime
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10 Apr 2012, 2:16 pm

Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Get with the times and stop judging.


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Ragtime
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10 Apr 2012, 2:20 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.


Society should be stratified according to bench press capability :P


You're right, it's a choice, not nature, for women to be as strong as men. (Oh wait, steroids are illegal.)


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10 Apr 2012, 2:27 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.


Society should be stratified according to bench press capability :P


You're right, it's a choice, not nature, for women to be as strong as men. (Oh wait, steroids are illegal.)


Men are not born rippling with muscles any more than women are


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10 Apr 2012, 2:29 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.


Society should be stratified according to bench press capability :P


You're right, it's a choice, not nature, for women to be as strong as men. (Oh wait, steroids are illegal.)


I know! I don't want to look like a buffed man! I've seen those women! They look so ugly! :eew:


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Ragtime
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10 Apr 2012, 2:55 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.


Society should be stratified according to bench press capability :P


You're right, it's a choice, not nature, for women to be as strong as men. (Oh wait, steroids are illegal.)


Men are not born rippling with muscles any more than women are


No, just denser and less-fatty muscle tissue, as well as a more robust skeletal structure clearly designed for heavy work.

In constrast, women are usually born with child-bearing hips and a smaller upper body. Oh wait, I forgot, all that natural stuff is a mistake by nature that feminism will cure!


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hyperlexian
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10 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.

i can do more pushups (men style ones) than many men. i build muscle like a pit bull.

but i don't get your point. do you think that if an average man is stronger than an average woman, then men should make all the household decisions?


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ValentineWiggin
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11 Apr 2012, 1:47 pm

Why are people so caught up with hurling themselves toward opposite ends of a dichotomy?

Men having MORE muscle = men are supposed to be strong and are more "desiged" (lulz) for work?
Both sexes have muscle.
Women having LESS body hair = women are supposed to remove theirs, and men are ridiculed for doing the same?
Both sexes have body hair.

And so on and so forth.

If we're going to talk nature, let's examine teh factz:
something naturally different between men and women by definition pre-exists any obsession with emphasizing it...aka gender roles.


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11 Apr 2012, 1:50 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.

i can do more pushups (men style ones) than many men. i build muscle like a pit bull.

but i don't get your point. do you think that if an average man is stronger than an average woman, then men should make all the household decisions?


I am confused by what you mean. If you are saying that you think I meant that men should make the household decisions because they are physically stronger, no. I was just explaining how I took what the bible said about women being weaker (in general). And how ragtime was interpreting this verse differently

Ragtime took that verse to mean that men should lead the relationship, I took it to mean that men are physically stronger.


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11 Apr 2012, 1:58 pm

Ragtime wrote:
No, just denser and less-fatty muscle tissue, as well as a more robust skeletal structure clearly designed for heavy work.


Nothing about humans was "designed". There is barely any sexual dimorphism in homo sapiens, if you want to see a species with really noteworthy differences between genders look at arachnids

Ragtime wrote:
In constrast, women are usually born with child-bearing hips and a smaller upper body. Oh wait, I forgot, all that natural stuff is a mistake by nature that feminism will cure!


I see you still haven't figured out what Feminism is. I'll leave you to that


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ValentineWiggin
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11 Apr 2012, 2:04 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
No, just denser and less-fatty muscle tissue, as well as a more robust skeletal structure clearly designed for heavy work.


Nothing about humans was "designed". There is barely any sexual dimorphism in homo sapiens, if you want to see a species with really noteworthy differences between genders look at arachnids

Ragtime wrote:
In constrast, women are usually born with child-bearing hips and a smaller upper body. Oh wait, I forgot, all that natural stuff is a mistake by nature that feminism will cure!


I see you still haven't figured out what Feminism is. I'll leave you to that


Defining for individuals, on the basis of physical difference, a "natural role" and making it all but impossible for them to opt out of them without serious consequence hasn't worked out too well, historically.

See: slavery, and the bullsh!ttery of "separate but equal"

Q: If all human beings "naturally" have certain characteristics on the basis of sex,
why do anti-feminists kick and scream so much when people deviate from them in any way?
You'd think "natural" predispositions wouldn't have to constantly be enforced. :roll:

The fact that we're even talking about men's and women's (as mentioned, slight) physiological differences,
as if that's remotely-relevant to why, exactly, people should be indoctrinated into gender roles and made to suffer for non-conformity,
shows that certain people STILL DON'T GET IT.

It ain't about whether men and women are different.
It's about why, exactly, they're FORCED to act so differently, and SUPPRESS their natural inclinations to do so.


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hyperlexian
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11 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

Alexender wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Alexender wrote:
Weiss_Yohji wrote:
The husband leading and the wife following? What is this, the '50s?

Get with the times and ditch that sexist, backward dynamic!


Hey he is just going by the bible, which says women are weaker, which is generally true. I can lift more than most girls my age.

i can do more pushups (men style ones) than many men. i build muscle like a pit bull.

but i don't get your point. do you think that if an average man is stronger than an average woman, then men should make all the household decisions?


I am confused by what you mean. If you are saying that you think I meant that men should make the household decisions because they are physically stronger, no. I was just explaining how I took what the bible said about women being weaker (in general). And how ragtime was interpreting this verse differently

Ragtime took that verse to mean that men should lead the relationship, I took it to mean that men are physically stronger.

oh, i couldn't tell what you were saying. now i get it.


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11 Apr 2012, 4:23 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Despite the extreme breadth of different lifestyles on WP, and the open-mindedness thereto, my marriage dynamic and my wife and my being happy in it is extremely confusing to several WP members.


It isn't confusing. I understand D/s relationships and I'm very tolerant of all kinks and lifestyles that don't violate the SSC (safe, sane and consensual) principle.

What understandably bothers people though is that you advertise this kind of relationship as the normal, natural relationship model, and that you use your religion to do so. If this Christian D/s thing works out for you and your wife, more power to the two of you. But you have to understand that this is a minority kink that doesn't appeal to most other people and should not be forced on anybody. Especially not using religious dogma, which is a problem in itself.



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11 Apr 2012, 11:54 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

It isn't confusing. I understand D/s relationships and I'm very tolerant of all kinks and lifestyles that don't violate the SSC (safe, sane and consensual) principle.

What understandably bothers people though is that you advertise this kind of relationship as the normal, natural relationship model, and that you use your religion to do so. If this Christian D/s thing works out for you and your wife, more power to the two of you. But you have to understand that this is a minority kink that doesn't appeal to most other people and should not be forced on anybody. Especially not using religious dogma, which is a problem in itself.


This post is very similar to what I have been trying to figure out how to say.

D/S relationships absolutely work if they're what both people want. D/S relationships can even work with one or both members being very strongly feminist.

That does not mean that your relationship is "the Christian marriage dynamic", suggesting that other relationships can't be Christian, or that your relationship style should be used by others unless they choose the same thing.

This is your relationship. People should be respectful of your relationship choices. However there are plenty of Christian relationships that make different decisions on how their relationships work.



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12 Apr 2012, 9:07 am

Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
No, just denser and less-fatty muscle tissue, as well as a more robust skeletal structure clearly designed for heavy work.


Nothing about humans was "designed". There is barely any sexual dimorphism in homo sapiens, if you want to see a species with really noteworthy differences between genders look at arachnids


Men and women are quite different, regardless of how you compare their differences to the sex difference of other species. After all, most men and women can conceive children together, while no man can impregnate a man nor can a woman impregnate a woman. Their are species who automatically change genders with the full reproductive abilities of the new gender. Humans are much more sexually differentiate compared to them, so if you want to draw comparisons and thereby conclusions, then both the your point and its opposite can be made.


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12 Apr 2012, 9:11 am

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Despite the extreme breadth of different lifestyles on WP, and the open-mindedness thereto, my marriage dynamic and my wife and my being happy in it is extremely confusing to several WP members.


It isn't confusing. I understand D/s relationships and I'm very tolerant of all kinks and lifestyles that don't violate the SSC (safe, sane and consensual) principle.

What understandably bothers people though is that you advertise this kind of relationship as the normal, natural relationship model, and that you use your religion to do so. If this Christian D/s thing works out for you and your wife, more power to the two of you. But you have to understand that this is a minority kink that doesn't appeal to most other people and should not be forced on anybody. Especially not using religious dogma, which is a problem in itself.


It's not a kink. The man being the leader in the home is the Christian norm, for those Christians who read the Bible. (Christians who don't read the Bible tend to drift from the Christian lifestyle and attitude, and so become less Christian over time. I don't believe in salvation loss, so by "less Christian" I'm speaking in all ways besides eternal security.)


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12 Apr 2012, 9:29 am

Ragtime wrote:
It's not a kink. The man being the leader in the home is the Christian norm, for those Christians who read the Bible. (Christians who don't read the Bible tend to drift from the Christian lifestyle and attitude, and so become less Christian over time. I don't believe in salvation loss, so by "less Christian" I'm speaking in all ways besides eternal security.)


Nobody caes about your 'Christian norm'.