A challenge: debate the issue of religion with yours truly

Page 1 of 9 [ 134 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,440
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Apr 2012, 12:28 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
If humanity was an experiment why was Earth chosen rather than Mars?


Because it was in a better location, perfect distance from the sun and all...for the forms of life that are being experimented with.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,440
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Apr 2012, 12:35 pm

snapcap wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Now for my more serious beliefs....humanity is an experiment


Know thyself.

A mantra the governments learned that was wise to consider.


The governments of the world aren't the ones doing the experimenting...they aren't the ones that have been playing with genetics since the beginning of time on this planet. But yes humanity is an experiment, will humanity bring about it's own doom or not? what happens will effect the state of the universe.

But yeah I still have more to learn about these things, so forgive me if this is vague......if it sounds insane well, it can't sound anymore insane than most theological beliefs.


_________________
We won't go back.


Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

13 Apr 2012, 12:38 pm

I don't think a Christroast would taste very good even on a rotisserie


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


androbot2084
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,447

13 Apr 2012, 12:49 pm

But wouldn't Mars be better because it would be a more glorious high tech society ?



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

13 Apr 2012, 12:53 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
But wouldn't Mars be better because it would be a more glorious high tech society ?


Not if we started there


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


androbot2084
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,447

13 Apr 2012, 12:56 pm

So we have 2 choices. The super humans can start as Mars and descend to Earth. Or the humans can start at Earth, become super humans and ascend to Mars.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

13 Apr 2012, 12:57 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
So we have 2 choices. The super humans can start as Mars and descend to Earth. Or the humans can start at Earth, become super humans and ascend to Mars.


:lol: :lol: :lol: what are you smoking today?


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


androbot2084
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,447

13 Apr 2012, 1:01 pm

Since Mars is such a hostile environment it would force us to a high tech society just to live there. The climate of Earth is so mild that a chimpanzee could survive.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,440
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Apr 2012, 1:08 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
But wouldn't Mars be better because it would be a more glorious high tech society ?


Yeah well it sucks there.


_________________
We won't go back.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,440
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

13 Apr 2012, 1:11 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Since Mars is such a hostile environment it would force us to a high tech society just to live there. The climate of Earth is so mild that a chimpanzee could survive.


exactly, humans aren't so different from chimpanzees, so it was the perfect place for them.


_________________
We won't go back.


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

13 Apr 2012, 1:19 pm

Declension wrote:
Do you really think that you needed to make a separate thread for this? Just go to the 7th page of any long thread in PPR. :wink:

But I think that you have the issue backwards. Let's assume for now that God exists. What is your evidence that Jesus was God?


Well, friend, I would say that the resurrection is historically probable and actually plausible. I would even venture to say that it has the status of a historical fact (I mean to say "fact" in the technical sense, that is: "something which can be proved or disproved").

Here are some points I'd like to list and expand upon while we discuss them:

1. There were two skeptics who attested to the resurrection.
2. It's medically impossible for more than one person to share in a subjective vision.
3. The theological nature of the claim, was unprecedented, and not something we should expect from someone who lived in 1st century Judea as a Hebrew, because the prevailing Jewish belief was in a different type of resurrection. Resurrection was an eschatological (end time) belief of the Jews, that in the end times Yahweh would resurrect His faithful. An individual resurrection was unheard of.
4. There is multiple, independent attestation of the resurrection.
5. The claim of an empty tomb stood unchallenged until the composition of the Toledoth Jesu, centuries later. If the tomb wasn't empty, the religious elite could have had Jesus' body exhumed, ridiculing the early Christians. Au contrare, though, Christianity as a movement started in Jerusalem and was based out of Jerusalem until the fall of the temple, AD 70.

There are many more points to be made, but these should do for now.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Last edited by Lukecash12 on 13 Apr 2012, 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

13 Apr 2012, 1:22 pm

01001011 wrote:
Define what is 'god'.


The most universal definition of God, is that there is an intelligent Creator.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

13 Apr 2012, 1:29 pm

Unspecified wrote:
Where is heaven, and what age will I be when I get there? Will I be the same age all of eternity, or will I somehow magically not care? Will my grandmother be a hot young thing, and will I be cured of my sex urges? Are there really no animals in heaven? Do we have bodies at all? Will we remember sex, at least?


While these questions are interesting, Christians haven't much substance to describe the afterlife, and whatever the afterlife is like has little to do with proof for theism and Christianity.

There are some questions there that I can answer from the perspective of orthodox/typical Christian theology. We will have bodies not dissimilar to our own, but ones that are perfect and immortal. As evidenced by Jesus' teaching that people are neither divorced nor married in heaven, it seems that we won't have the same sexual urges that we have on Earth. You won't have an age when you get there. What I mean by that is that, like God, you will be running on a line parallel to time. God's name in the OT, Yahweh (I AM), called the Tetragrammaton, means that He simply is. Time is irrelevant to Him, as it will be to us.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

13 Apr 2012, 1:34 pm

Their are a lot of issues that have to deal with religion like how it plays a role in politics which I dislike.



Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

13 Apr 2012, 1:45 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
And what makes you so special? Bull stubborn Christians who plant their feet and take on an attitude of, "you can't change my faith" and think that constitutes "winning a debate" are a dime-a-dozen. You would be worth having a discussion with if you could provide us with an interesting and refreshing perspective on Christianity. However, if all you intend to do is see how far you can go in playing rhetorical dodgeball, you are a waste of everybody's time. Present us with some evidence that you deserve to be taken seriously.

Also, I'm not your ordinary atheist. In fact, ordinary atheists find me appalling.


1. Nothing makes me all that special, but I do happen to be an expert in biblical scholarship and apologetics (making a rational case for Christian faith). I don't mean to boast.

2. I don't think that not having my faith changed constitutes having won a debate. When I have presented better arguments than my interlocutor, and only then, will I have won a debate.

3. Evidence that I deserve to be taken seriously? Well, I can list a few things that might peak your interest:

I have a working knowledge of the classical languages, being able to read and explain texts written in Koine Greek, biblical Hebrew, biblical Aramaic, classical Latin, and Arabic. I regularly read doctoral dissertations on the subject of history. I am up to date on philosophy, including natural philosophy (better known as science), all the way from the earliest Greek philosophers up to today, from Aristotle's Posterior Analytics to Arvin, Guth, and Borde's recent physics paper on inflationary models of the universe. I am capable of, and would enjoy, presenting arguments in the form of propositional equations. I have been classically trained in all other academic respects.

But those claims are empty until I demonstrate my knowledge, aren't they?


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

13 Apr 2012, 3:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Nah man, I don't want to roast christianity or theology.....people need religion like I need beer good beer. But be warned budweiser and coors are the devil's piss, one must avoid drinking either of those at all costs even though there is so much temptation......so many billboards, sports adds ect how can one not be tempted? well would you rather have the devils piss, or beer?


I'll take a black and tan, a port, or just a good stout, thank you. I'm definitely a Guinness type of man.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib