Classic videogame tech that can do what modern tech can't.

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Tross
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26 May 2012, 2:23 pm

I was having a retro gaming discussion with a friend of mine, and we got to talking about Sonic 3 and Knuckles, and Knuckles in Sonic 2. Apparently, he had never seen a Sonic and Knuckles cart, and didn't know what lock-on was. Considering that he was a Genesis kid like myself, he must have lived in a cave in his childhood. But, considering that this is the friend who needed me to explain what things like internet trolls, and memes are, I'm just going to assume he's always been quite fond of that cave of his, to the point where he never wants to leave it. Anyways, I starting thinking about just how cool a piece of tech the Sonic and Knuckles cart is, and remember at one point or another placing every single Genesis cart I owned into the top of it to see if it would work. Of course nothing happened unless I put Sonic 2 in it, which was the only compatible game I had. I've never seen anything like the Sonic and Knuckles cart, and I haven't seen anything like it since.

Then I got to thinking how videogame tech has come a long way, but certain things that older tech could do, just aren't possible anymore. It's like plenty of doors continue to open up as time passes, but at the same time, the occasional door closes. For example, two discs can't be placed on top of each other to combine them both into one awesome game. Lock-on can apparently only be simulated in a cartridge compilation, or in the form of digital downloads, but I guess it can be simulated now. It could even be seen as an early add-on, which is something we see a lot of in modern games, through digital downloads, but somehow lock-on didn't seem like a rip-off or money grab, and it was a lot cooler IMHO. Plus, while it may be able to be simulated in some form, combining two physical games to make one awesome game is not possible anymore. It's clear that Genesis not only does what Nintendon't, but also what MS and Sony don't.

But, there's more than one example out there of awesome classic tech that does what modern tech can't. I never realized how much I love memory cards until this gen. I think it's kind of neat how the occasional game can read data from another game(usually an earlier entry in the same series), and unlock a little extra content. Then again, I suppose that sort of thing happens occasionally with digital downloads too. But there is a feature of memory cards that even digital downloads can't touch. I remember back in high school, I used to play Tekken 5 all the time with the friend I mentioned. Tekken 5 was the first Tekken game to feature customizable costumes, but it was also the last where I could use my custom characters on my friend's system when I was over at his house, and vice versa when he came to my place, and face off against his custom characters. Since data was saved to my memory card, all I had to do was insert it into slot 2 of my friend's ps2, and bam! Slot 2 had my custom characters. That sort of thing isn't possible with Tekken 6, or any modern game for that matter, since that is one limitation of an hdd.

So, what's your favorite classic videogame tech that can do what modern tech can't? Note, I used the term "classic" as opposed to the term "retro", so anything that's not from the current gen of consoles, or the current gen of handhelds is fair game. But, if you want to talk about Ninty's handheld tech, I'd say keep it before the dsi(not that I ever considered it to be more than a ds1.5). Note: this is not meant to be yet another retro vs. modern thread. We already have enough of those. While the premise does involve some classic vs. modern elements, it's more meant for positive discussion of classic tech, and is a much more specific sub-topic.



NeueZiel
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26 May 2012, 2:31 pm

I hate to ruin it for you but the S&K lock on tech really didn't work in the sense we thought it did as a kids. Locking on with Sonic 3 just made the two games actually "complete", alone they were actually quite short. Originally Sonic 3 was going to be much bigger but stuff had to be cut due to time constraints. I forgot how it worked with Sonic 2 but I think I read that the S&K cart actually had all the "lock on" games already loaded you just had to make the connection with hardware to be able to play it. Sonic 3's actual rom has a good chunk of S&K's actual data on it going all the way to the Lava Reef zone, lock on technology, much like blast processing, was a marketing ploy by Sega.

So in a way you have a proto-form of on disc dlc! Oh the irony. Also paying full price for two incomplete games to make one complete back when games were truly expensive (70$-110$).

Not really technology related, but I loved how after you beat the original Resident Evil 2 you had a B side/alternate scenario that took you through an altered route. I miss content like this. Games are so huge now they don't seem to have the space to do this kinda stuff anymore. I also thought it was neat that you could load save game files from certain Squaresoft games, like in Legend of Mana. I had a file from Final Fantasy 8 and SaGa Frontier II so I got a cool chocobo pet and some sword. I don't think many games did this but it was kinda neat.



Tross
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26 May 2012, 5:48 pm

Well, it was a marketing ploy that worked. I still think it's a really neat piece of tech, because it went beyond the constraints of what a single cart could do. I couldn't care less about the science of it. Even if it's like dlc, there's nothing that neat about dlc. I certainly can't physically pick up dlc and stick it into the top of my discs. I wouldn't mind tracking down one of those S&K carts to show that friend of mine. He at least had the foresight to keep all his old systems. I listened to my parents. Sigh.

Anyways, the stuff you mentioned was a feature of memory cards. It was pretty much what I was trying to say, but explained much better, so thank you. That sort of thing wasn't used all the time, but when it was, it was really neat. RE2's scenario system was pretty much built on that feature, since it involved reading the scenario A data, and giving the player a corresponding scenario B with the other character. There were a couple things that the player had control over(as in, they didn't have to happen over the course of the game), like whether he or she decided to take the pack, the smg, neither, or both. The result of that decision would decide what was available to them when they played as the other character. There were a few ps2 games that used the memory card feature as well, though that sort of thing was implemented way more often in the ps1 era. I'm not entirely convinced that it can't be done with modern games, so I'm just going to assume it's a case of modern devs not being bothered to go above and beyond anymore. But, that feature is really neat, and I haven't seen it used nowadays, so it definitely has its place in this thread.



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02 Jun 2012, 4:18 pm

I miss the system add-on peripherals like the Sega 32x, Sega CD and the Jaguar CD. This concept is awesome to me for some reason. Also the older consoles had a lot less complex controls unlike the gazillion button controllers now. There were exceptions back then with a numeric keypad being integrated into some controllers but the basic action ( or "fire") buttons were limited to like 3 or less. It also seems that the high tech graphics of current technology has killed the concept of gameplay. In the days of 8 and 16-bit consoles, the graphics were basic so gameplay had to keep a person's attention. I play old Atari 2600 and NES games now more than PS3 solely based on the gameplay. Maybe I'm just oldschool but Centipede and Dragon Warrior I are both awesome because of gameplay.


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04 Jun 2012, 11:28 pm

NeueZiel wrote:
I hate to ruin it for you but the S&K lock on tech really didn't work in the sense we thought it did as a kids. Locking on with Sonic 3 just made the two games actually "complete", alone they were actually quite short. Originally Sonic 3 was going to be much bigger but stuff had to be cut due to time constraints. I forgot how it worked with Sonic 2 but I think I read that the S&K cart actually had all the "lock on" games already loaded you just had to make the connection with hardware to be able to play it. Sonic 3's actual rom has a good chunk of S&K's actual data on it going all the way to the Lava Reef zone, lock on technology, much like blast processing, was a marketing ploy by Sega.

So in a way you have a proto-form of on disc dlc! Oh the irony. Also paying full price for two incomplete games to make one complete back when games were truly expensive (70$-110$).

Not really technology related, but I loved how after you beat the original Resident Evil 2 you had a B side/alternate scenario that took you through an altered route. I miss content like this. Games are so huge now they don't seem to have the space to do this kinda stuff anymore. I also thought it was neat that you could load save game files from certain Squaresoft games, like in Legend of Mana. I had a file from Final Fantasy 8 and SaGa Frontier II so I got a cool chocobo pet and some sword. I don't think many games did this but it was kinda neat.


I agree with the sentiments. Though, having worked in a games studio, I don't think it's that games are getting bigger, but that companies are getting bigger; it's harder to coordinate all the ideas that designers might have into something that works, and makes money. The company I worked for didn't even have any designers, but plenty of 'Metrics' experts.

I also agree that games have increasingly too much emphasis on graphics, causing gameplay to suffer. My eyesight is terrible, it all means nothing to me!

About the B-side idea: I think it was Tenchu 3 that had one of these that you could choose after completing the story mode once. The game was the same, but all the voice-overs were changed to reference some conspiracy about toilet-paper! It was so out-of-place and really surprising, I enjoyed it and it definitely improved my view of the game.



Tross
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06 Jun 2012, 2:42 pm

guitarman2010 wrote:
I miss the system add-on peripherals like the Sega 32x, Sega CD and the Jaguar CD. This concept is awesome to me for some reason. Also the older consoles had a lot less complex controls unlike the gazillion button controllers now. There were exceptions back then with a numeric keypad being integrated into some controllers but the basic action ( or "fire") buttons were limited to like 3 or less. It also seems that the high tech graphics of current technology has killed the concept of gameplay. In the days of 8 and 16-bit consoles, the graphics were basic so gameplay had to keep a person's attention. I play old Atari 2600 and NES games now more than PS3 solely based on the gameplay. Maybe I'm just oldschool but Centipede and Dragon Warrior I are both awesome because of gameplay.


Well, I do support the notion that the classics were all around better. But, Atari was before my time, so I don't think I identify with that. With that said, there are enough retro vs. modern gaming threads. I made this one to talk about tech that does neat things that modern tech hasn't really. More on the S&K cart, I forgot to mention that it enhances, not one, but 3 games, and can be played on its own. Not something any add-on I've ever downloaded can do. That's an example of a more tech centric statement. But, if you want to mention oldschool gameplay, I don't think it's unreasonable to mention that oldschool graphics required the player to use his or her imagination to fill in what went on from a closer perspective, like what you get handed with modern graphics. I'd argue that modern games need more complex controls, due to requiring the player to perform more actions, but it is true that classic systems got by with simpler controllers. If I recall though, the snes's controller wasn't that far off from the more complex controllers that came out of the 64 bit era.



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06 Jun 2012, 3:32 pm

the neo geo had a memory card which could be used to save games and you could then use your save game on the aracde machines.


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Tross
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07 Jun 2012, 12:31 am

Really? That's awesome. Man, we really need to make a list of all the things modern consoles should have, that they don't.



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07 Jun 2012, 6:39 pm

#1)
Image



Tross
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08 Jun 2012, 2:33 am

Ah, a pc gamer. Well, I must admit you do have a point. I can't imagine playing Diablo 3 without it. Certain games are just built for the mouse, and it's a piece of tech that has been around for a very long time. I'm certainly not up on the history of the mouse, but it's definitely older than I am. The best part is, that it's still used today. Most tech comes and goes, but the mouse has withstood the test of time. Good choice.



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08 Jun 2012, 7:03 am

Quote:
the mouse has withstood the test of time


Not for much longer. Touch screens and motion tracking devices like the Kinect are going to make the mouse a thing of the past. I saw a TED Talk where a guy was demonstrating a mobile computer he made out of common computer/cellphone parts that allows you to display your "desktop" on any flat surface and, manipulate it by using hand gestures. I saw another TED demonstration where they where using a simple brian wave device to allow you to manipulate things on a computer with your mind. Once all that tech is perected I doubt we'll be using a mouse.



Tross
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11 Jun 2012, 2:33 am

Possibly. I'm not a big fan of motion control, at all, but if it's motion tracking that simulates using a mouse, I think it could replace the physical mouse. I'm a little skeptical of touch screens replacing the mouse though. There are certain things that the mouse is still better for, and in the case of pc gaming, I'd argue that the mouse would still have its place as a comfortable control scheme. But, who knows what the future holds? Maybe you're right, but...I'll believe it when it happens.