Australia: land of kangroos, people that need to lighten up

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12 Jun 2012, 3:15 am

We are getting far afield here, in some places stepping in front of a train works. Jumping from high places, leaves a splatter pattern.

The issue was being photographed with guns.

You can say that Olympics call for high standards, setting the best example of good will, so If they had been photographed at a Gay Pride March it would have been cool. How about Vegas, "You are Now Entering the City Limits, Please Commence Sinning." Are pictures from the kegger and pig roast going to cause a worlwide Islamic backlash?

Now how about local industry? We make money off of tourists, and Asians love Dirty Harry Tours, where we take them out in the desert, with a cowboy hat, a .44 Mag, Harry's Baby, and video them blasting away. For dessert, the full automatics, for some spray and pray shooting.

In Japan only people named Yakusa can own weapons, so coming to America means Freedom, Freedom to shoot beer cans off of fence posts while riding in the back of a pickup, and having helped empty those beer cans. The Thompson is favored, 45 ACP, 30 round clips.

What America means to me, riding across West Texas, with a cold one between my legs, shooting beer cans in the ditch with a nine shot .22 revolver. Hey, it is hours between towns, at least ones big enough to sell beer, and we are they only people out there to show mercy where the deer crossings meet the truck routes. The deer seem to prefer us to the cayotes, we kill you before we eat you.

Out on the ranch it is a regular job to feed the Deer and Elk, Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. We know where they bed down, and keeping our distance make a bit of noise pouring out some corn and horse food. Then we make a bit more noise leaving. After a month, you can depend on the largest male taking that free meal, and one morning there is a Dentist from Chicago who has paid $5,000 to sit with his fancy scoped rifle, and drop some elk at 200 yards. I was also the photographer. By afternoon he is on a plane back to Chicago, and all he wants is the head mounted.

The Elk are trucked in from Yellowstone where they have a surplus and auction them off. They are used to tourists taking their picture. Six months of feed and they are some good eating.

As the Local Guide, I went out the day before and told the bears and local game there was going to be some shooting, and we needed the money. Park Elk lack smarts. For some reason we cannot get them to pay to shoot cows.

We do have a gun culture, and a lot of land with one person and five cows per square mile. It takes a hundred square miles to support one small store that sells cold beer. And yes, we are going to pop one or more for the ride back.

Going to get gas was 52 miles round trip, about twice that to the nearest grocery.

So now comes people I have never met who say I cannot ride the bike with a white straw hat like I do the horse, I must wear a Schnel DOT 218 approved helmet. No helmet to drive the pickup, but sipping a beer and shooting beer cans in the ditch with a pistol they are going to call Homeland Security, SWAT Teams, Black Hilocopters, call in an air strike, and if I finish off a deer that was hit by a truck, I should go to Federal Prison. Whats the Problem, I killed it before I ate it?

If you see anyone out there you wave, if they are broke down you stop, always carry water, because people can die in a day. I have been out at night in snow storms to rescue people that slid in a ditch, 25 miles from anywhere. We are on our own, have only each other, and I did pass around a pint of Jack.

They might have been bit by an snake, who knows?

This culture exists away from the coasts and twenty-five miles from the cities. We have so many open containers in the vehicle we have to go to the recycling place.

Even if I do not like you, if I find you crashed into a power pole, pushed through a fence by a cow, I am the one who will patch you up, pour wiskey on your wounds, toss you in the truck and drive you the hundred miles to the hospital, stopping along the way for more beer.

When people are few, they are free, and do depend on each other. In cities they remove everyone else's freedoms, for Safety, hate each other, and would step over a bleeding person in the streets.

You can do what you want, just dont call your self human.

City rats do not live on the planet, have blotted out the sky, never see the stars, live with the other animals, they really should be underground where it is safe. They hate Earth and Life. They are so self important that they want to regulate people everywhere, and bomb those who question their right.

The smell of the earth, the plants that chose to live there, the animals that eat them, clean air, water, a quite that a bird singing carries for miles, the blackest nights with billions of stars, other people, and yourselves, you hate it.

Your existence has no meaning, so you project your fears onto others. They Shall Not! Screech the Rats, for I do not dare to live.

I read an interesting news article, in the Atlantic, over the last ten years more Americans have been killed by having their TV or sofa fall on them, than by terrorists worldwide. We still have that TSA stuff at every airport. We still have over 100,000 troops in Afganistan, where one a day dies, five are maimed, and even more kill themselves.

This is the price of making the world oversafe for city rats. The leading killer of age 1 to 35, is cars and cell phones. Since 9/11 they have killed near half a million. The second leading killer is medical treatment and hospitals. Next comes the optional bombing of Iraq, a million killed for rat security, which is to say for nothing.

Taking away guns, making people live naked except for the approved helmet, is not helping the real problems we face.

As Churchill said,"We have nothing to fear but fear it's self." Fear has been destroying us, fear of everything, that might happen, could happen, with dangerous plans to reduce fears by creating new fears.

We used to promote personal freedom, it is what made us great.



Declension
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12 Jun 2012, 3:46 am

Inventor wrote:
The issue was being photographed with guns.


Not true. The issue is more to do with the pose.



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12 Jun 2012, 4:18 am

Declension wrote:
Not true. The issue is more to do with the pose.


Like that makes the whole thing seem less ridiculous?


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12 Jun 2012, 4:24 am

cyberdad wrote:
Here in Australia you have to keep weapons securely stored in a metal cabinet and locked. I'm pretty sure even Claude Van Damme or Arnold Schwarzenegger would have difficulty trying to fight off armed intruders while scrambling to find where he put his keys then unlock the weapons room and then the gun cabinet. Then they have to collect the bullets from a seperate storage area and start loading. By the time you actually lift the gun to take aim your family are likely dead or tied up and you'll be too.


I love it when the anti-gun people make my arguments for me. Safe storage? Safe for the criminals, maybe...


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12 Jun 2012, 5:56 am

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Here in Australia you have to keep weapons securely stored in a metal cabinet and locked. I'm pretty sure even Claude Van Damme or Arnold Schwarzenegger would have difficulty trying to fight off armed intruders while scrambling to find where he put his keys then unlock the weapons room and then the gun cabinet. Then they have to collect the bullets from a seperate storage area and start loading. By the time you actually lift the gun to take aim your family are likely dead or tied up and you'll be too.


I love it when the anti-gun people make my arguments for me. Safe storage? Safe for the criminals, maybe...

No storage? so do you walk around with a pistol or sawn off shot gun under your jacket?



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12 Jun 2012, 8:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In my view gun ownership is a sign of primitive and violent thinking. If you are a middle class family living in a western country that has police and armed forces then what exactly is the need to carry or store weapons? We have right wing gun nuts in Australia as well and they make all types of paltry excuses for why they need semi-automatic weapons in their homes.
And in my view crap like this is a sign of pretentious and trashy elitist thinking. Pull condescending assumptions out of your ass, class act buddy. Real sophisticated and civilized of you. Yeah I guess a guy who thinks cops and armed forces will always be there to save the citizens knows what every single middle class family needs for their safety better than they themselves do. That's just disgustingly arrogant. Some people have professions that put their lives at risk when they're off-duty and some people are more easily victimized than others. That's a few factors out of many, so stay in your lane.

Yes there is a lot of paranoia in this day and age, but that has jack sh** to do with some sort of a "gun culture". The media highlighting all the crazy sh** that goes on makes people think violent crime occurs more frequently than it actually does. But since you have some sort of an axe to grind with guns, you would rather point the finger than really look at the issue in an open minded way. Because if you did, you would realize not everything about crime, violence, and the perception of those things revolve around gun policies or "gun culture".

It drives me nuts when it comes to how agenda-ridden the subject of crime is. Here's a little joke for everyone. What causes crime? Whatever you have an axe to grind with.

If you're a feminist that hates patriarchy, you will blame crime on that. If you're a social conservative that hates the moral decline of the past few decades, you will blame crime on that. If you're a liberal, you will blame crime on racism and inequality. Everyone wants to point their finger at one factor and act like their agenda is the holy grail to it.

Pointless disclaimer for the folks that are eager to give me a patronizing lecture on logic: I am not saying every single social conservative, liberal, or feminist believes those things. I am oversimplifying to make a point about how having an agenda makes people blame one thing to the exclusion of all else.


All well and good if you love gun culture (also known as thug culture) living in the USA and have the second amendment to fall back on. This amendment was created to bestow upon the early American settlers the right to be armed due to paranoia over the return of the British imperial forces, the French, Mexicans and native american tribes all of whom were a physical threat to families living in "frontier land". Those days are gone now but the paranoia and gun love is still hanging around.

I suspect you missed my earlier post re: Australia. Under Australian law before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g. Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or "collecting". Self-defense is not accepted by either the state or federal government as a reason for issuing a license.
Oh I see, you can't engage in an intellectual discussion so you would rather resort to being smug and insulting than address my arguments. So much for being civilized and sophisticated you pathetic little hypocrite.



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12 Jun 2012, 3:45 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Stuff


(What's up with the tangent hopping and action film references?)

Yes, it's just like that; if more people kill themselves in a country that doesn't have many firearms compared to one that does, something else is the actual reason. Object doesn't equal cause.

I know all about the storage laws here (being as I have to comply with such). Takes me all of 10 seconds to unlock my safe and ammunition box, but that's for emergencies regarding feral animals and such; I can't see ever needing to use such for self-defense (whilst it's not a valid reason to "own" one, one is able to utilize a firearm for such in Oz. Did a whole subject on that in Criminal Justice). But, they're still there if I ever need them. I own such for recreation, for fun, like people owning a motorbike (which would be far more dangerous to one's health going by statistics).

I bet owning a swimming pool is just as "dangerous" for the household. Kids drown. Kids shoot themselves. It's the parents' fault in both cases, not the pool or firearm. Punishing responsible individuals for the acts of the stupid kinda...defeats the purpose of justice.



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12 Jun 2012, 5:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
No storage? so do you walk around with a pistol or sawn off shot gun under your jacket?


As a matter of fact, I do; pistol, not cut down. I have a permit to do so, which required a rather thorough federal background check and a full set of fingerprints, among other things.

Incidentally, the last murder in my town was committed by the police.


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12 Jun 2012, 8:53 pm

None of that here, no safes or trigger locks, and no carry permit needed just to go to your car, and from your car to place of business, which covers most places. The car is your house here.

We have a lot of guns, a lot of people carry, and who gets killed is still a culture thing.

Up to the 1870 dueling was legal, swords or pistols at dawn, which kept a polite society. We have one Oak tree where over a hundred died, over a hundred years, and it was enough to keep everyone else aware of their behavior.

The automobile has killed more than the wars, and it does nothing to improve behavior.

It is not the means we kill people with, the auto is the big killer, the little hand gun less often used. It is the option to act that all of these laws wish to remove.

The same language was used about our barberic practice of inviting people to meet us under the oaks, offering the choice of weapons, an equal match with seconds and judges, and often a doctor.

Our Principal of, "All men are created equal," Took Sam Colt to perfect.

Football players do not want the people they bully to face them at dawn for a single shot, they want big to win. Regulating weapons give the advantage to large people.

Our entire development started after the spear thrower that gave a smaller person a weapon that could kill at range, and no longer did the largest and meanest rule everything. We progressed by killing off god given authority figures, and making the rest mind their manners.

This foolish movement is asking to return to might makes right as our neighborhood social order. Larger people will bully smaller, but not to the point where they can be charged with assult.

From the Bronze Age on just about everyone carried a dagger, sword, just to keep behavior in check. Then it was guns, and now, with more people, disarming people will bring back a world we have kept down through superior defense.

Sure enough, the Thugs, Bullys, Muggers, are becoming a real problem.

Guys named Biff do not like skinny geeks being armed, it spoils their funnin around. Their daddy is a cop, they will be too, and are just getting in some practice slaping people in the back of the head. Somebody has to teach these people to show proper fear and respect for their superiors!

You can change the law, you cannot change 40,000 years of history.



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12 Jun 2012, 9:49 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
No storage? so do you walk around with a pistol or sawn off shot gun under your jacket?


As a matter of fact, I do; pistol, not cut down. I have a permit to do so, which required a rather thorough federal background check and a full set of fingerprints, among other things.

Incidentally, the last murder in my town was committed by the police.


Sorry living in Australia we are bit sheltered from this stuff. Are you saying that in the US a civilian can be issued a license to carry a pistol locked and loaded? What happens when you walk into a bank?



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12 Jun 2012, 9:55 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In my view gun ownership is a sign of primitive and violent thinking. If you are a middle class family living in a western country that has police and armed forces then what exactly is the need to carry or store weapons? We have right wing gun nuts in Australia as well and they make all types of paltry excuses for why they need semi-automatic weapons in their homes.
And in my view crap like this is a sign of pretentious and trashy elitist thinking. Pull condescending assumptions out of your ass, class act buddy. Real sophisticated and civilized of you. Yeah I guess a guy who thinks cops and armed forces will always be there to save the citizens knows what every single middle class family needs for their safety better than they themselves do. That's just disgustingly arrogant. Some people have professions that put their lives at risk when they're off-duty and some people are more easily victimized than others. That's a few factors out of many, so stay in your lane.

Yes there is a lot of paranoia in this day and age, but that has jack sh** to do with some sort of a "gun culture". The media highlighting all the crazy sh** that goes on makes people think violent crime occurs more frequently than it actually does. But since you have some sort of an axe to grind with guns, you would rather point the finger than really look at the issue in an open minded way. Because if you did, you would realize not everything about crime, violence, and the perception of those things revolve around gun policies or "gun culture".

It drives me nuts when it comes to how agenda-ridden the subject of crime is. Here's a little joke for everyone. What causes crime? Whatever you have an axe to grind with.

If you're a feminist that hates patriarchy, you will blame crime on that. If you're a social conservative that hates the moral decline of the past few decades, you will blame crime on that. If you're a liberal, you will blame crime on racism and inequality. Everyone wants to point their finger at one factor and act like their agenda is the holy grail to it.

Pointless disclaimer for the folks that are eager to give me a patronizing lecture on logic: I am not saying every single social conservative, liberal, or feminist believes those things. I am oversimplifying to make a point about how having an agenda makes people blame one thing to the exclusion of all else.


All well and good if you love gun culture (also known as thug culture) living in the USA and have the second amendment to fall back on. This amendment was created to bestow upon the early American settlers the right to be armed due to paranoia over the return of the British imperial forces, the French, Mexicans and native american tribes all of whom were a physical threat to families living in "frontier land". Those days are gone now but the paranoia and gun love is still hanging around.

I suspect you missed my earlier post re: Australia. Under Australian law before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g. Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or "collecting". Self-defense is not accepted by either the state or federal government as a reason for issuing a license.
Oh I see, you can't engage in an intellectual discussion so you would rather resort to being smug and insulting than address my arguments. So much for being civilized and sophisticated you pathetic little hypocrite.

Smug and insulting? I'm just giving you the courtesy of what the "actual" situation is in Australia re: gun licences. Our former prime minister John Howard did one thing right he started a gun buy back policy to take automatic weapons out of neighborhoods. The 1996 Buyback took 600,000 newly illegal sporting firearms, including all semi-automatic rifles including .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns.



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12 Jun 2012, 10:00 pm

Dillogic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Stuff


more stuff .


All of which is academic my gun toting friend. Here's the reality
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/04/ ... ambiguity/



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12 Jun 2012, 11:23 pm

I'm sure accidents and whatnot are far, far more common than self-defense situations, as it points out. That would be a study from the US too. I'm also sure that if you took away all the firearms the actual rate of accidental death wouldn't change much (if at all); people hurt themselves. No one should actually drive a car due to the amount of deaths that are caused by such (not to mention the coming environmental disaster); they're far more "deadly" for the innocent. We don't need to live far from work, and it'd be better for us to walk (not ride, as riding a bike is dangerous).

Again, stupid people do stupid things; you can't regulate stupid.

I can speak with 100% certainty that my home is safe with firearms in such. Now, I can't say my home is 100% safe due to the stairs in it.

Concerning the regulation of 1996: read up on how the murder rate is actually the same. Less murders involving firearms, yes, but the murders involving other means has risen. A stupid man killing his family in a fit of emotional rage with a kitchen knife isn't any different than if he used a firearm.



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13 Jun 2012, 12:26 am

Dillogic wrote:
I'm sure accidents and whatnot are far, far more common than self-defense situations, as it points out. That would be a study from the US too. I'm also sure that if you took away all the firearms the actual rate of accidental death wouldn't change much (if at all); people hurt themselves. No one should actually drive a car due to the amount of deaths that are caused by such (not to mention the coming environmental disaster); they're far more "deadly" for the innocent. We don't need to live far from work, and it'd be better for us to walk (not ride, as riding a bike is dangerous).

- bicycles are for recreational riding
- cars are for transport
- swimming pools are for swimming
- kitchen knives are for preparing food
- guns are for killing

Now take a guess which is the odd one out in a middle class suburban household?

Dillogic wrote:
A stupid man killing his family in a fit of emotional rage with a kitchen knife isn't any different than if he used a firearm.


It involves quite a lot of effort to kill your family with a kitchen knife. Whereas a gun is like a ready made killing machine conveniently designed to wipe out a "stupid mans" family in a few pops.



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13 Jun 2012, 2:00 am

- Firearms are for recreational shooting (a sport worldwide)
- (many other valid reasons for firearms)
- Swords for martial arts
- Bows for recreational shooting
- Cars for recreation
- Smoking for recreation
- Swimming in the ocean for recreation
- Contact sports

All are valid too, and all can be equally dangerous.

Several years ago a man killed his family with a kitchen knife here. Would the victims care if they were shot instead? Don't bring up "ease of use" when unarmed victims are concerned, as a firearm isn't any easier to use as a weapon as a knife (I have a long history of martial arts and shooting events to draw an adequate conclusion). A firearm just beats a knife in most cases due to its inherent range advantage, just as a shotgun/rifle beats a pistol. Firearms don't make "pops".

The only time a firearm can be of a large advantage in regards to murder is when utilizing a high capacity firearm in the usual rampaging events, but they're statistical outliers in regards to how often they happen. Martin Bryant and Anders Breivik are outliers.

Do we base law on outliers?

O, and last I heard, about 1 in 20 people in my state have a firearm license. That's a fairly high number. You rarely hear of murders involving firearms here, much less ones held by people who have a license (people who hold such have to be entirely "clean" too).



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13 Jun 2012, 3:29 am

Dillogic wrote:
Martin Bryant and Anders Breivik are outliers.
Do we base law on outliers?.


Not sure why you are choosing mass murderers as like Bryant and Breviek as exemplars.

How about kids who pick up their daddies rifle at home and decide to shoot little Johnny's head off or kill a parent whom is abusive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiBJj9sQbrM

(((Not surprisingly many gun lovers seem to also be abusive parents.)))

I retract the last statement



Last edited by cyberdad on 13 Jun 2012, 8:45 am, edited 2 times in total.