Ronald Reagan: Hero? or Villain?
That's the Fox Noise version.
Actually CBS News is also finally reporting this as well, I can't help the fact you get your news from places that are blatently dishonest, or did you miss how MSNBC was mocking Ann Romney because she has MS?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-5 ... e1.channel
That's the Fox Noise version.
Actually CBS News is also finally reporting this as well, I can't help the fact you get your news from places that are blatently dishonest, or did you miss how MSNBC was mocking Ann Romney because she has MS?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-5 ... e1.channel
Thank for for admitting that you watch MSNBC.
That's the Fox Noise version.
Actually CBS News is also finally reporting this as well, I can't help the fact you get your news from places that are blatently dishonest, or did you miss how MSNBC was mocking Ann Romney because she has MS?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-5 ... e1.channel
Thank for for admitting that you watch MSNBC.
Actually, I didn't have to turn on the TV and watch MSNBC, I caught the youtube of them mocking Ann Romney, I also managed to see Neil Cavuto of Fox News slamming MSNBC over their behavior.
I also know about how MSNBC is in hot water for some rather creative editting putting it mildly.
Last Time I have actually watched MSNBC was several months ago, if that (can't remember if they actually hosted a Republican Primary debate, if so that's the only time in recent memory that I have had MSNBC on).
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Actually the Obama DoJ lied to Congress and took punative actions against people that defied the DoJ in order to comply with a subponea and testified to Congress about this.
The DoJ took said punative action against the Whistleblowers in Defiance of Congress.
Futhermore, I think we both know the real reason for Fast & Furious, it was to create a crisis in order to push for more anti-gun laws. It is illustrated in this clip from 2009.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8F51EF0357A96764[/youtube]
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Actually the Obama DoJ lied to Congress and took punative actions against people that defied the DoJ in order to comply with a subponea and testified to Congress about this.
The DoJ took said punative action against the Whistleblowers in Defiance of Congress.
Futhermore, I think we both know the real reason for Fast & Furious, it was to create a crisis in order to push for more anti-gun laws. It is illustrated in this clip from 2009.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8F51EF0357A96764[/youtube]
I think even you must concede that the guns funneled by Fast And Furious makes up only a tiny fraction of American guns used by Mexican gangs and Cartels.
It's just plain paranoid to think this was some sort of grand scheme to take away our gun rights.
And in closing, as I recall, Fast And Furious was instituted under George W. Bush. Or did Obama, knowing he would someday be president, somehow hypnotized George W. into doing this?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Actually the Obama DoJ lied to Congress and took punative actions against people that defied the DoJ in order to comply with a subponea and testified to Congress about this.
The DoJ took said punative action against the Whistleblowers in Defiance of Congress.
Futhermore, I think we both know the real reason for Fast & Furious, it was to create a crisis in order to push for more anti-gun laws. It is illustrated in this clip from 2009.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8F51EF0357A96764[/youtube]
I think even you must concede that the guns funneled by Fast And Furious makes up only a tiny fraction of American guns used by Mexican gangs and Cartels.
It's just plain paranoid to think this was some sort of grand scheme to take away our gun rights.
And in closing, as I recall, Fast And Furious was instituted under George W. Bush. Or did Obama, knowing he would someday be president, somehow hypnotized George W. into doing this?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While the dishonest left wing media may have claimed that this was a Bush Program, fact of the matter is that Fast & Furious started in 2009.
Bush's operation was Operation Wide Receiver which started in 2006, which was shut down the instant guns started disappearing back in 2007. Fact of the matter is Wide Receiver was known to the Mexican Government (unlike Fast & Furious), and had multiple safeguards unlike Fast & Furious.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Actually the Obama DoJ lied to Congress and took punative actions against people that defied the DoJ in order to comply with a subponea and testified to Congress about this.
The DoJ took said punative action against the Whistleblowers in Defiance of Congress.
Futhermore, I think we both know the real reason for Fast & Furious, it was to create a crisis in order to push for more anti-gun laws. It is illustrated in this clip from 2009.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8F51EF0357A96764[/youtube]
I think even you must concede that the guns funneled by Fast And Furious makes up only a tiny fraction of American guns used by Mexican gangs and Cartels.
It's just plain paranoid to think this was some sort of grand scheme to take away our gun rights.
And in closing, as I recall, Fast And Furious was instituted under George W. Bush. Or did Obama, knowing he would someday be president, somehow hypnotized George W. into doing this?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While the dishonest left wing media may have claimed that this was a Bush Program, fact of the matter is that Fast & Furious started in 2009.
Bush's operation was Operation Wide Receiver which started in 2006, which was shut down the instant guns started disappearing back in 2007. Fact of the matter is Wide Receiver was known to the Mexican Government (unlike Fast & Furious), and had multiple safeguards unlike Fast & Furious.
But how is Obama personally responsible for that? I seriously doubt that he and Erick Holder cooked up the whole mess by their lonesome. It realistically makes more sense that local dimwitted federal agents had run an idiotic scheme, and when it didn't work, they either honestly thought these particular guns had come from private dealers (as many doubtlessly do - despite the right braying that it's just not so), or they were trying to cover their own asses by implicating others. But to say that no guns from America hadn't ever been sold to Mexican gangsters is pure fantasy.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Well, he didn't put a stop to stopping it.
.
The President is obliged to execute the laws of congress.
ruveyn
Which is something that Mr. Reagan failed to do when he felt like it.
You have Reagan confused with Barack Obama.
Not at all, and this thread is about Ronald Reagan. Stop trying to change the subject, or I'll tell a moderator on you and get you in trouble. Barack Obama had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra scandal.
1. You assume Reagan knew about Iran-Contra, hate to break this to you but the President doesn't necessarily know about every black-ops. There is something known as plausible deniablity, because they never bothered to tell him...
2. It was an ongoing black-ops operation where Reagan could either jeopardize the lives of a bunch of CIA agents or lie (and I don't think Reagan was ever under oath to begin with). Jeopardizing the safety of CIA agents on an active mission is fairly close to treason...
Another thing, this is entirely relevant to Obama, because you're accusing Reagan of things that Obama does on a regular basis.
Now, I know you want to go back to demonizing a great American President to distract from how awful Barack Obama has been as a President, but I'm gonna call you out on it.
Huh... Then if Reagan was out of the loop with Iran/Contra, then I guess it's completely reasonable that Obama knew nothing about Fast & Furious.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that is the case, then Obama pulled an extremely boneheaded move today.
You mean how the President made a preemptive move to protect files that by necessity must be kept out of the public eye?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The fact the DoJ was handing guns and grenades to Mexican Drug Cartels and then blaming law abiding Gun Dealerships in an attempt to get more anti-gun laws on the books, isn't something the American People should know about, is that what you're telling me?
No, I'm talking about how the identities of DEA agents and informants would be placed in jeopardy if the Republicans had a chance to make this public solely to embarrass the President.
And incidentally, this notion that the Obama administration was using this as a sly means to incriminate private gun dealers is nothing short of paranoid. If that was ever anyone's intent, you should look first to the local federal law enforcement agencies, who were trying to cover their own asses.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Actually the Obama DoJ lied to Congress and took punative actions against people that defied the DoJ in order to comply with a subponea and testified to Congress about this.
The DoJ took said punative action against the Whistleblowers in Defiance of Congress.
Futhermore, I think we both know the real reason for Fast & Furious, it was to create a crisis in order to push for more anti-gun laws. It is illustrated in this clip from 2009.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8F51EF0357A96764[/youtube]
I think even you must concede that the guns funneled by Fast And Furious makes up only a tiny fraction of American guns used by Mexican gangs and Cartels.
It's just plain paranoid to think this was some sort of grand scheme to take away our gun rights.
And in closing, as I recall, Fast And Furious was instituted under George W. Bush. Or did Obama, knowing he would someday be president, somehow hypnotized George W. into doing this?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While the dishonest left wing media may have claimed that this was a Bush Program, fact of the matter is that Fast & Furious started in 2009.
Bush's operation was Operation Wide Receiver which started in 2006, which was shut down the instant guns started disappearing back in 2007. Fact of the matter is Wide Receiver was known to the Mexican Government (unlike Fast & Furious), and had multiple safeguards unlike Fast & Furious.
But how is Obama personally responsible for that? I seriously doubt that he and Erick Holder cooked up the whole mess by their lonesome. It realistically makes more sense that local dimwitted federal agents had run an idiotic scheme, and when it didn't work, they either honestly thought these particular guns had come from private dealers (as many doubtlessly do - despite the right braying that it's just not so), or they were trying to cover their own asses by implicating others. But to say that no guns from America hadn't ever been sold to Mexican gangsters is pure fantasy.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If that were the case Obama wouldn't have used Executive Privilege.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
That's even less believable than Clinton's, "I did not have sex with that woman," song and dance routine...
We've got thousands of missing firearms as well as quite a few missing hand grenades... The DoJ also took retailatory action against Whistleblowers in defiance of Congress. I seriously doubt there are any field agents put at risk by the documents they are refusing to release, it's more likely that those documents reveal Obama's involvement.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,739
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
That's even less believable than Clinton's, "I did not have sex with that woman," song and dance routine...
We've got thousands of missing firearms as well as quite a few missing hand grenades... The DoJ also took retailatory action against Whistleblowers in defiance of Congress. I seriously doubt there are any field agents put at risk by the documents they are refusing to release, it's more likely that those documents reveal Obama's involvement.
Take that up with the DOJ. I doubt that Obama stays awake at night, like the Byzantine Emperor Justinian, pacing the halls and thinking up evil things to do to the common people.
And yes, according to one ancient historian, Justinian did just that!
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Fortunately I'm not insane so I don't have to waste my time believing that.
Well, HE MUST HAVE DONE JUST THAT!! !! !
The economy did better under Carter than under Reagan. The problems under Carter was the inflation that began to be a problem under Nixon so the decision was made by Fed chairman Paul Volcker to cause a recession through monetary policy. There were two recessions created back to back under this policy ending in 1983. These recessions were artifically induced. What exists now is more akin to the Great Depression with debt deflation following a deregulated "laissez-faire" free market casino period, Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover's in the 1920s and George W. Bush's in the 2000s.