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Verdandi
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20 Jul 2012, 9:25 am

LadybugS wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
My legal, but thankfully not biological father is a psychopath. I have a handful of family members who want me to be willing to see him, but I have no desire to see him ever again. Except maybe at his funeral to spit on him.


Then put your foot down and absolutely do not let them interfere... It's for the best that you don't interact with him! I wish (even though I was a kid at the time) that I had stood up to my mother and said, "It's insane to encourage any kind of a relationship with this person". I suffered from his mind games for years after that.


Yeah, the mind games were the worst, a huge part of the abuse.

I've held my ground for ~12 years now, so I'm unlikely to change my mind on seeing him.

Your mother really should not have pushed you to have a relationship. Sympathies that she did so.



Sora
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20 Jul 2012, 2:25 pm

Raziel wrote:
MightyMorphin wrote:
All people with ASPD have actually committed crimes, whether they've set a cat on fire or put a brick through someones window. If they haven't committed crimes or been disorderly, they won't get diagnosed, so yes, crimes are punishable.


Sadly I just have this in German right now, but it says in the ICD-10 about the ASPD: "Kriminelle Handlungen sind also nicht zwingend erforderlich." what means in english: "Criminal acts are not necessarily required." :wink:


While it doesn't say that in the ICD literally, it's still perfectly right.

ICD-10 wrote:
F60.2 Dissocial personality disorder

Personality disorder, usually coming to attention because of a gross disparity between behaviour and the prevailing social norms, and characterized by:

(a)callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
(b)gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social
norms, rules and obligations;
(c)incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no
difficulty in establishing them;
(d)very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of
aggression, including violence;
(e)incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly
punishment;
(f)marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations,
for the behaviour that has brought the patient into conflict with society.

There may also be persistent irritability as an associated feature. Conduct disorder during childhood and adolescence, though not invariably present, may further support the diagnosis.


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aspienewbie22
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21 Jul 2012, 6:32 am

Quote:
ICD-10 wrote:
F60.2 Dissocial personality disorder

Personality disorder, usually coming to attention because of a gross disparity between behaviour and the prevailing social norms, and characterized by:

(a)callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
(b)gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social
norms, rules and obligations;
(c)incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no
difficulty in establishing them;
(d)very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of
aggression, including violence;
(e)incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly
punishment;
(f)marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations,
for the behaviour that has brought the patient into conflict with society.

There may also be persistent irritability as an associated feature. Conduct disorder during childhood and adolescence, though not invariably present, may further support the diagnosis.


So, not to piss anyone off or start a big argument...but, I have to ask. HOW can you tell if someone has aspergers or ASPD when there can be overlap in how they come across to others, given the often flat affect? Also, I am sure I read on this site someone who said they are aspergers, but also have ASPD traits. So..again, how do you draw the lines?

(a) could just be an inability to express your emotions in a manner NT people are used to, so they think you have none
(b) what is "gross and persistent" I mean, this is a little vague. And, "social rules, norms, and obligations" are often not met by people with aspergers, though the underlying reason differs. aspergers individuals just might not GET these, while the ASPD gets them, but dismisses them.
(c) this i can see as having a difference. however, i dont see it as being something mutually exclusive, and, thus, not diagnostic
(d) uhm...isnt this what causes many melt/shut-downs? not necessarily the violence part...thats something else entirely...but having a quick trigger to a whole bunch of emotional outburst...again, not exactly something you can tell apart from observing
(e) how would anyone ever know this from the outside. there is NO WAY to ascertain if someone feels guilt. people express guilt or whatnot differently. i defiantly feel guilt, but once made someone very angry because when i broke something of theirs, they felt my response indicated that i didnt care...when, in reality, it was the polar opposite and i just dint know how to say "im sorry." it seemed to me that saying those words was pointless, as they don't reverse the outcome. i have since learned to say these words, because i know people expect to hear them
(f) again..."conflict with society?" lets say that your special interest is technically illegal...if you get caught by a police officer, wouldnt you talking about how cool it is to you, and why you like it, be perceived as a "rationalization?"

anyhow...the reason i ask for clarification between the two is that i honestly oscillate between thinking my ex is one or the other, as he has characteristics of both. but then when i add in the awkward clumsiness he has, his preoccupation with a few unusual hobbies, and some additional things im not in the mood to go into, i sway very much aspergers. however, like i said, he has traits of both...for instance, he is also a compulsive liar. i know many with aspergers dont lie..but i have read that for those individuals who grow up in dysfunctional homes where lying is something that you learn to do to survive...these individuals can become profoundly skilled at lying. anyhow, when im feeling really insecure about things, then i flip to the ASPD.

if someone has both...or aspergers with ASPD traits...i'd REALLY like you to pipe in and offer some insights.


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LadybugS
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21 Jul 2012, 4:36 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Yeah, the mind games were the worst, a huge part of the abuse.

I've held my ground for ~12 years now, so I'm unlikely to change my mind on seeing him.

Your mother really should not have pushed you to have a relationship. Sympathies that she did so.


Good for you! And thank you.


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Steven_Tyler77
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22 Jul 2012, 6:48 pm

This is in response to those who said that many sociopaths do not seek help for fear not to be associated with serial killers.

I beg to differ. Most sociopaths do not seek help, because they do not think they have a problem. Most are not even aware of the fact that they are sociopaths. The way they treat people doesn't usually hurt them, since they're the ones who take advantage of the others (and not necessarily because they want to screw with others' minds, but simply because they do not care about others and they have little to no morals). Even if their behavior brings them suffering (e.g. they feel lonely, because people do not want to be friends with them any longer because of their abusive ways), they will not perceive their behavior as the cause for it, they will instead blame everybody else for their situation. As such, they will feel no need to go seek any help from psychologists or psychiatrists...

This is based on what I've learned in psychotherapy school and on my own experience with a person who has mild ASPD (with some paranoid tendencies too)...


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