AS and hypotonia (low muscle tone and motor clumsiness)

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Steven_Tyler77
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22 Jul 2012, 6:06 pm

I have stumbled upon this article about hypotonia (low muscle tone and motor clumsiness) in Aspies and I was surprised that it described to a T the way I am, even as an adult:

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/11 ... ss-in.html

Does anyone relate to it?


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GiantHockeyFan
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22 Jul 2012, 6:18 pm

Steven_Tyler77 wrote:
I have stumbled upon this article about hypotonia (low muscle tone and motor clumsiness) in Aspies and I was surprised that it described to a T the way I am, even as an adult:

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/11 ... ss-in.html

Does anyone relate to it?


Very much so. I was nicknamed Mr. Burns in school partially because I was so weak compared to most and of course the bullies really took advantage of that. However, I have some pretty good flexibility, much more like a female than a male. This was another article that further cemented my knowledge of being an Aspie.



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22 Jul 2012, 7:24 pm

I've overcompensated the hell out of this. I read a few days ago, a huge checklist of things from when I was in nursery school, basically it was like "vocabulary much advanced beyond age" and then for every motor skill thing a "-" symbol instead of a check. From that I was actually evalled at a hospital, but they came back and said "not developmentally delayed." But my sister has spina bifida, and her PT was concerned about the way I walked

It totally sucked, in like 1st grade, I was shooting the basketball "granny" style like the girls, and I just hated it. So when I'd get home, I'd play outside by myself for hours, in attempts to improve my athletic skill. I'd just throw a baseball against a wall for hours at a time. I'd kick soccer balls and footballs over trees. And all that effort got me to the point where I was barely competitive with the other kids at recess or in youth leagues I played in. Then sports like basketball, regardless of how well I could shoot, I couldn't multitask worth a damn, so now I see those sports as sports I was never meant to be good at. I was a good defender/goalie in soccer, to a point.

It's interesting, though, I kinda stopped trying during adolescence, but then at about 20 years old I started ice skating, and with it pretty seriously working out, and it's one of the best decisions I've made in my life. Before that though, there was a year and a half after high school I cycled a decent amount. One thing skating did was fix a postural issue I've had since a kid. As with bad posture, you can't skate worth a damn. Then all the weightlifting I did to help skating really strengthened my back muscles. I do seem to "naturally" have strong and huge legs for some reason, though. I'm wondering if it's because I'd have to do all the moving of boxes and whatnot as a kid, as my sisters were women and thus my mom didn't expect them to actually do as much physical labor.

I say seriously the best way to fix the hypotonia issues is to look into full body compound exercises, with emphasis on squats and deadlifts. Because those exercises fix the postural muscles best. Also, deadlift and cleans/snatches are pretty much the best exercises around in my opinion, as they mimic real life movements of picking stuff up off the ground. So they really increase work capacity just for general life, I think.

I still wish I was visual spatially better, though. It sucks, as it seemingly takes me 3-4x longer than everyone else to learn a specific movement, and it takes lots of repetition. In that regard, I've learned it's best to just learn stuff on your own, as if there's another person around, you'll be pressured to learn it at a "normal" pace which is impossible for me.

Oh, I never had hyper flexibility. That's about average. I don't really know if I had hypotonia either, I'm not terribly sure. I remember when I was really young, being small, but I'm guessing all my practice I put in probably increased the muscle tone a lot, that and my dad fed me well and gave me lots of vitamins. Also even as a kid, my dad gave me a little weight set, though I just stopped exercising in adolescence. I remember being able to clean and press like....40-45lbs. Not that I knew it was a clean and press, but then my friend who was bigger than me (like seemed like he hit puberty at like 5th-6th grade) could press like 60.



KaminariNoKage
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22 Jul 2012, 9:16 pm

I can definitely relate. But until I found out about it, I thought is was normal - with the exception of unspectacular balance and being terrible at sports.

I had to learn a completely different method to tying shoes, took me a few years to learn how to ride a two wheel bike, learning to type was an incredibly slow process, and even driving a car (also late) - I probably put too much thought and effort into the pedals (left foot = left pedal, and right = right pedal kind of thing), and I strangle the life out of the steering wheel - sweat dripping and everything.

Learning to write was its own adventure. I did not know until a few weeks ago that it is no supposed to be painful. For mechanical (my choice) I pressed really hard meaning I needed thicker pencil lead and I wore through the cushion part of the pencil because I squeezed it so hard. My mother consistently complained about my writing as well - it has taken probably a few thousand hand written pages to get where I am today (perfectly legible, though fairly varied). Even have the calluses to prove it. Technically I am ambidextrous as well, so I can write with my left, but it does not have the same experience/calluses so it is slower and not as..."cushioned".

But I think I have known subconsciously somehow. I kind of resist doing things with my hands (like using a knife) - if I do, usually slow at it, or awkward. I have always been concerned about holding my parakeet or petting small animals as well because I do not want to hurt them.

Not completely hopeless though. For example, I am somewhat of an artist, and a writer. I grew up playing the piano and doing sports like swimming, horse back riding, and karate which have helped in their own ways. The only massively annoying side effect is that how I learned to walk/how I sit (people are usually impressed by it, like classic yoga type stuff - and I am male) has resulted in my right leg being twisted about 45 degrees. It can make things like running painful. But you just learn to live with it. How I hold things or pick them up is kind of amusing as well.

Positives - I have been somewhat "double jointed". In karate for example, you get put in arm breaks and the like during practice and it always took a lot more before I would feel "pain". It is also nearly impossible for me to get soar muscles. If I spontaneously run-walk 8 miles after not exercising for a few months, yeah it will happen - but massively quick heal time. I am also pretty good at miming stuff.



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22 Jul 2012, 9:33 pm

This is one symptom I can unequivocally attest to having!

I've always been very clumsy. Everything physical has been a challenge for me. One that I've never run away from, but one that I have to constantly deal with.

As a toddler, I was big on "w" sitting. Thirty-five years later I can still do it with some effort. I couldn't hold my neck up for a long time as a baby. I was a floppy-looking thing as evident in photographs. I reached all my milestones on time, according to my parents, but I reached all them much later than my twin sister did. There's this home movie of us from when we were about two, at the beach. My sister is ripping and running around, while I have to walk assisted. At two. So I kind of think my parents don't really remember stuff accurately.

I was picked on in school for a number of reasons, but my physical awkwardness was at the top of the list. Black girls are supposed to know how to jump rope straight from birth! I couldn't jump rope, hoola-hoop, play jacks, or run. I couldn't--and still can't--hold my pencil correctly. So yeah, I stuck out as a kid.

Today, the struggle continues. I have been doing yoga for a year and a half as a way of becoming more empathetic and compassionate towards myself and others and improving my mind + body connection. I have seen some subtle improvements in my leg strength and posture, but even though I practice almost every day, I still have major balance issues. Sometimes I can't do the simplest poses without falling out of them. I'm the worst student in my class, but the embarrassment has greatly diminished with time. It helps that my teacher is very compassionate and patient. Besides my therapist, I think she's probably the only person in the world who would guess that I am autistic (it feels weird typing that).

I am physically active. I walk 6 miles every day along with keeping to my yoga practice. I enjoy movement very much; I just don't look very graceful doing it. It makes me feel good to know that even though I am clumsy, I don't use it as an excuse. I have little patience for people who complain about how they are too self-conscious to do so-and-so. Try falling on your ass every week in yoga class and being the only one who has to be given special instructions to do the mountain pose. That takes guts, and I am proud that I have so many of them.



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23 Jul 2012, 4:42 am

I've always been kind of weak and clumsy.

I twist my ankles a lot, fall or nearly fall.



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23 Jul 2012, 4:55 am

I think I have it. I know I lean on every damned thing. I had a housemate once who pitched fits about how I even leaned on the door when in a car. I hate not having a cart to lean on in stores as well. I mean, the leaning isn't the only thing, but it's a thing that's been a big deal to me.



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23 Jul 2012, 10:27 am

My son is 7 yrs old, and has AS. Hypotonia was the first indication to us that anything was going on with him. He was not attempting to sit up at 6 mos of age. He didn't crawl until he was 13 mos old, and he did not walk until he was 22 mos. old. We started bringing him to physical therapy at 1 yr of age after our doctor recommended it. He has struggled with this ever since. During the course of his physcial therapy, the therapist started noticing other things that indicated autism, so we kept our eye on him and had him evaluated and he was diagnosed as PDD-NOS at 2.5 yrs of age. The older he gets, he definitely has AS. He has repetitive language issues, he has no friends, he obsesses on his special interest (car makes and models). He also flaps his hands.

He has gotten a lot better, but he still struggles with hypotonia and being uncoordinated. I truly believe this adds to his problem of not wanting to interact with his peers to some degree as he perceives most boys to be rough, so he pretty much avoids getting into their play and games. He is also clumsy and runs with his hands flapping. He can run fairly normal when we remind him to keep his arms down, and he is getting better about climbing on playground equipment.

What is interesting to me is that it doesn't seem that all Aspies struggle with this, so I wonder what part of the brain it is that causes this to occur. I do feel that the more we can work on this with my son, it may increase his confidence. I suppose this will be an ongoing thing for him.

Hope this helps.



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23 Jul 2012, 1:03 pm

Yeah, that’s me. I will get the lean on if only offered the necessary surface… 100 % laid back attitude guaranteed. Plus give me any chair and I will sit on it like your grandpa in his recliner. Crossing my legs…? Like good old Christians their hands. Bad hand writing…? Well, my notes are referred as the Voynich Manuscript.

But still this part made me laugh: “They are able to run and have fun with other kids without feeling any harmful effects”.

Dear writer of the article, there were some harmful effects, I just necessarily wasn’t feeling them all. Like what about one of those numerous times trying to ride a bike…? The second my father let go, he had some use for his car insurance, because I was presumably looking for a car ride instead of a bike one and headed straight into his pride and joy, Nissan Sunny, made out of hypotonicly flexible metal... and ouch… the local tooth fairy was able to skip our house on her next visit. :D



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23 Jul 2012, 1:10 pm

Hypotonia can also pair with some cerebral mechanical issues as well. It's one thing to have the actual hypotonia related muscle problems, but when the other parts of your brain like the pre-motor cortex and cerebellum are wired differently, you can really hit the coordination lottery (for the worse).
Conversely, you can also have these mechanical brain issues while not having hypotonia and have a similarly off gait or coordination issues.

This is why it can be important to have a neurologist look at your brain structures via an MRI or combo MRI/CT, and a physiologist look at your muscular systems if you can't develop any tone in your muscles.



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23 Jul 2012, 3:32 pm

Strong as an ox and OK at sports (other than soccer) like rugby but very clumsy and never managed to ride a bike, don't like driving and writing like a spider on LSD. I'm ambidextrous as well ie just as clumsy with both hands. Can use a knife well when cooking but do cut myself.



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23 Jul 2012, 3:51 pm

I'm dyspraxic, have low muscle tone, but don't have low muscle strength. My OT has been commenting how she feels bad for me having low muscle tone because my body would be so much happier if it had high muscle tone.



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23 Jul 2012, 4:01 pm

Yeah, pretty much. Mild to moderate hypermobility, poor muscle tone. I have arms like floppy spaghetti. Thankfully, I have good fine motor skills despite the hypermobility, which means I am good at handwriting, small crafts, typing, repairing things, etc. I do tend to get sore hands if I do things for too long because of how my fingers bend backward if I have to grip something tightly, especially a pencil while writing. While typing, I always use a wrist rest. Thankfully my typing teacher forced me to learn to type with my fingers curved, or the fingertips would probably bend backward like they do when I write. It's not painful for them to do that; it's just that when your fingers bend backward, you have to use a lot more effort to hold them steady and to grip things. You're depending entirely on your muscles and not very much on your joints.

I used to have problems with repeatedly spraining my ankles, but that hasn't happened in years now. Hypermobility apparently gets better as you get older, and I'm almost thirty now. It also helps that I walk a lot, which strengthens the muscles around my ankles and helps keep them steady. I guess when I'm middle-aged I'll start having issues with arthritis and general wear-and-tear on joints. Other than that... ehh. Not a major problem.

Actually, none of this is a major problem; hypermobility is very common (even among NTs) and hardly ever requires any sort of treatment. I'm one of many, many people whose joints are a little looser than they should be. Give me a keyboard to substitute for a pencil during long writing assignments, and I have no trouble with it.


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23 Jul 2012, 7:05 pm

Oh f*ck, is there any symptom of AS I don"t have?



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23 Jul 2012, 7:11 pm

As a child? Positively me to a T. However, I became much stronger & even slightly athletic in college. I was a cross country/Road racer for awhile. I still consider my self a runner in fact, even tough a spinal condition plus Crohn's disease has mostly eliminated that.
The clumsiness very much remains. I was also prone to injuries & shin splints in training. This symptom strikes me as dead on.

Sincerely,
Matthew



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23 Jul 2012, 7:54 pm

angelbear wrote:
My son is 7 yrs old, and has AS. Hypotonia was the first indication to us that anything was going on with him. He was not attempting to sit up at 6 mos of age. He didn't crawl until he was 13 mos old, and he did not walk until he was 22 mos. old. We started bringing him to physical therapy at 1 yr of age after our doctor recommended it. He has struggled with this ever since. During the course of his physcial therapy, the therapist started noticing other things that indicated autism, so we kept our eye on him and had him evaluated and he was diagnosed as PDD-NOS at 2.5 yrs of age. The older he gets, he definitely has AS. He has repetitive language issues, he has no friends, he obsesses on his special interest (car makes and models). He also flaps his hands.

He has gotten a lot better, but he still struggles with hypotonia and being uncoordinated. I truly believe this adds to his problem of not wanting to interact with his peers to some degree as he perceives most boys to be rough, so he pretty much avoids getting into their play and games. He is also clumsy and runs with his hands flapping. He can run fairly normal when we remind him to keep his arms down, and he is getting better about climbing on playground equipment.

What is interesting to me is that it doesn't seem that all Aspies struggle with this, so I wonder what part of the brain it is that causes this to occur. I do feel that the more we can work on this with my son, it may increase his confidence. I suppose this will be an ongoing thing for him.

Hope this helps.


Right brain hemisphere abnormalities. For me it translates into NVLD, nonverbal learning disorder.

As far as what to help, as many "right brain" activities as possible. Like for me, I could read at like 12th grade level in kindergarten, but math was like 4th grade. But encourage lots of art and physical activity to work around the balance, but make it self paced so he doesn't lose confidence for not doing well compared to peers for the amount of hours put in.