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deltafunction
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23 Jul 2012, 5:26 pm

Why does Loner + Murder = AS?

I'm waiting to see the details of his personal life.



angelbear
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23 Jul 2012, 5:30 pm

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23 Jul 2012, 5:40 pm

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Sweetleaf
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23 Jul 2012, 6:14 pm

angelbear wrote:
I want to make it clear that I don't link AS with violence. It just seems as though this guy was struggling quite a bit with not being able to find a job. All of his friends from the past said that he was very introverted. His pastor at his church said he never saw him mingling with his peers, and that he did not initiat conversations. I don't know, I just feel like the disconnectedness, may have caused him to despair, and then he just snapped.

His parents have already said that they do not plan to discuss him or their relationship with him, so unless they are forced too, I don't think it will come out. I was wondering today if the police would try to check into his school records from elementary through high school.



If he just snapped he wouldn't have had all that time to plan it out......and is it really so hard to fathom maybe he didn't 'have' anything.


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deltafunction
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23 Jul 2012, 6:18 pm

angelbear wrote:
I want to make it clear that I don't link AS with violence. It just seems as though this guy was struggling quite a bit with not being able to find a job. All of his friends from the past said that he was very introverted. His pastor at his church said he never saw him mingling with his peers, and that he did not initiat conversations. I don't know, I just feel like the disconnectedness, may have caused him to despair, and then he just snapped.

His parents have already said that they do not plan to discuss him or their relationship with him, so unless they are forced too, I don't think it will come out. I was wondering today if the police would try to check into his school records from elementary through high school.


I know it's weird, but seeing his story about his struggle to find a job in his field made me glad to have switched out of a field which I perceived as dead-end.



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23 Jul 2012, 6:22 pm

Everyone has something, 'normal' is a fallacy

Even the 'normal' gregarious labrador retriever will be food and p**** focused, the border collie will be hyper, the german shepard, a biter

Every breed has its faults and fine points

Young aspie males who are isolated and away from family support..... and dwell within the American style school system..... are possible candidates of mass murder......

Naaaaa we aspies are perfect angels with beautiful minds like god and stuff :roll:

I wonder if he was aware of his social disorders? or not?

Awareness goes a long way to understanding and forgiveness

My guess is he never knew! Even though he was a top student of mental health sciences...

Doesnt say much about the value of a formal education in mental health....8O but that is glaringly apparent with many therapists (sorry guys, perfect time to score points!! :D )



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23 Jul 2012, 6:37 pm

I was thinking this just the other day are their in male aspie porn stars :lol:


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23 Jul 2012, 6:51 pm

Surfman wrote:
Everyone has something, 'normal' is a fallacy

Even the 'normal' gregarious labrador retriever will be food and p**** focused, the border collie will be hyper, the german shepard, a biter

Every breed has its faults and fine points

Young aspie males who are isolated and away from family support..... and dwell within the American style school system..... are possible candidates of mass murder......

Naaaaa we aspies are perfect angels with beautiful minds like god and stuff :roll:

I wonder if he was aware of his social disorders? or not?

Awareness goes a long way to understanding and forgiveness

My guess is he never knew! Even though he was a top student of mental health sciences...

Doesnt say much about the value of a formal education in mental health....8O but that is glaringly apparent with many therapists (sorry guys, perfect time to score points!! :D )


-I am still not convinced having AS makes one more likely to commit mass shootings or other violence. And I think it would be terrible to look at young males with AS away from home as potential mass murderers rather than human beings, there isn't an exact mold people who commit such crimes fit into so its stupid to try and create one not to mention it only causes stigma for those who might fit that profile but wouldn't do that.
-No one said aspies are perfect, but neither are the normal people.......both could probably be capable of doing something like that, there is nothing about having autism that causes violence.
-There is no proof he had autism/aspergers or any other disorder therefore maybe there was nothing to know.


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23 Jul 2012, 7:02 pm

Doubtful. Seems more like paranoid schizophrenia. He seems to have believed he was the Joker from the last Batman flick.
Definitely drugged for court-appearence. For sympathy or is he really THAT violent.
I doubt Asperger's in the extreme. If there is a medical reason for this horror/atrocity it might be a brain tumor like the Bell Tower shooter at UT years ago.

Sincerely,
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Surfman
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23 Jul 2012, 7:03 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
And I think it would be terrible to look at young males with AS away from home as potential mass murderers rather than human beings, there isn't an exact mold people who commit such crimes fit into so its stupid to try and create one not to mention it only causes stigma for those who might fit that profile.....

.....there is nothing about having autism that causes violence.


meltdowns??

But yes I agree with not pigeon holing young aspie males.

If anything, I would point the finger at our leaders and their cultural paradigm that regularly creates these sad and lonely monsters

Yet. I would like to see these events occurring less frequently, which can only occur if we all talk about it in an honest and progressive manner.

rather than the normal human habit of avoidance and denial



Matt62
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23 Jul 2012, 7:08 pm

PS. Maybe I should have read more of this thread before I posted, but some potential misinformation was given. The Columbine shooters had friends. Each other to start with & a few others. Not every mass-murder is a loner either...

Matt



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23 Jul 2012, 7:15 pm

I cannot for the life of me, understand why, whenever some nut job goes on a killing rampage, everyone, including many people here, immediately start saying he may be on the Autism spectrum. It does not automatically follow that a mass murderer is on the spectrum. It does a disservice, and an insult to us on the spectrum to automatically say all killers are on the spectrum.

From what I can tell by the news articles, the only thing that is clear to me is that James Holmes is psychotic in some way, not on the spectrum. Psychos do sometimes take to being loners, and do sometimes totally freak out after real or perceived setbacks in their lives. This does not mean they are on the spectrum. It does mean that they are having some kind of problems, but the Autism spectrum disorders are only one set of problems that can lead to acting out, and usually don't lead to mass murder. There are a number of other, more likely conditions that can lead to such violent behavior. Please stop lumping us with him until you have some REAL evidence to back it up!



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23 Jul 2012, 7:23 pm

Matt62 wrote:
PS. Maybe I should have read more of this thread before I posted, but some potential misinformation was given. The Columbine shooters had friends. Each other to start with & a few others. Not every mass-murder is a loner either...

Matt



from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harri ... an_Klebold


In Eric Harris' journal, he wrote about the bullying he received: "Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, and how f*****g weak I am and s**t. Well, I will get you all back: ultimate f*****g revenge here. You people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidance more, treated me more like a senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your f*****g heads off...That's where a lot of my hate grows from. The fact that I have practically no self-esteem. Especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me...constantly...therefore i get no respect and therefore I get f*****g PISSED" and "Whatever I do people make fun of me, and sometimes directly to my face. I'll get revenge soon enough. f*****s shouldn't have ripped on me so much, huh! HA!"[23]

Dylan Klebold said on the Basement Tapes that his older brother Byron and his friends constantly "ripped on" him and that everyone (including those at school) except his family treated him "like the runt of the litter".[24] He also said, "You've been giving us s**t for years. You're f*****g gonna pay for all the s**t! We don't give a s**t. Because we're gonna die doing it." [25]

Nathan Vanderau, a friend of Klebold, and Alisa Owen, Harris' eighth-grade science partner, reported that Harris and Klebold were constantly picked on. Vanderau noted that a "cup of fecal matter" was thrown at them.[26]

In Harris' 1998 yearbook, Klebold wrote "my wrath for January's incident will be GOD-LIKE. Not to mention our revenge in the commons."

Brooks Brown believes that the "January incident" refers to a humiliating event, if not their arrest for breaking into a van, exactly the kind of thing that would focus their hatred on the "commons," the usual name for the school cafeteria.

"People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, laughing at them, calling them fa***ts," Brown says. "That happened while teachers watched. They couldn't fight back. They wore the ketchup all day and went home covered with it." [27]

"A lot of the tension in the school came from the class above us," Chad Laughlin insists. "There were people fearful of walking by a table where you knew you didn't belong, stuff like that. Certain groups certainly got preferential treatment across the board. I caught the tail end of one really horrible incident, and I know Dylan told his mother that it was the worst day of his life."

That incident, according to Laughlin, involved seniors pelting Klebold with "ketchup-covered tampons" in the commons.[



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23 Jul 2012, 7:28 pm

questor wrote:
I cannot for the life of me, understand why, whenever some nut job goes on a killing rampage, everyone, including many people here, immediately start saying he may be on the Autism spectrum. It does not automatically follow that a mass murderer is on the spectrum. It does a disservice, and an insult to us on the spectrum to automatically say all killers are on the spectrum.

From what I can tell by the news articles, the only thing that is clear to me is that James Holmes is psychotic in some way, not on the spectrum. Psychos do sometimes take to being loners, and do sometimes totally freak out after real or perceived setbacks in their lives. This does not mean they are on the spectrum. It does mean that they are having some kind of problems, but the Autism spectrum disorders are only one set of problems that can lead to acting out, and usually don't lead to mass murder. There are a number of other, more likely conditions that can lead to such violent behavior. Please stop lumping us with him until you have some REAL evidence to back it up!


The authorities will now have to address the autistic dilemma, whether we like it or not.....its much bigger now than what you and I have to say, erroneous or not

This could/may be the impetus to improving the lives of those with ASD's....

Or we could see a lynch mob but I doubt it



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23 Jul 2012, 7:41 pm

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Sweetleaf
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23 Jul 2012, 7:50 pm

Matt62 wrote:
Doubtful. Seems more like paranoid schizophrenia. He seems to have believed he was the Joker from the last Batman flick.
Definitely drugged for court-appearence. For sympathy or is he really THAT violent.
I doubt Asperger's in the extreme. If there is a medical reason for this horror/atrocity it might be a brain tumor like the Bell Tower shooter at UT years ago.

Sincerely,
Matthew


All I've heard is he said that, but nothing to prove that he actually believes it or that he has any form of schizophrenia...the way it was planned and carried out does not seem to match up with the disorganized thought process of schizophrenia or a state of psychosis considering he was planning it for months.


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