Autism Speaks' Response to Joe Scarborough's Autism Comments

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Mayel
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06 Aug 2012, 9:02 am

Verdandi wrote:
Bryant was also diagnosed with ADHD + conduct disorder, which is per Dr. Russell Barkley a very high predictor for psychopathy, and even without the psychopathy is fairly severe and problematic.

Asperger's Syndrome would not explain his decision to go on a killing spree. However, conduct disorder and psychopathy very well could have.

Sorry for misreading you. I got the context wrong.

Anyway, very intresting discussion.


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aghogday
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06 Aug 2012, 4:39 pm

Dillogic wrote:
aghogday,

The DSM-IV-TR allows mild MR if it's tested as such during the school years and there's no apparent cognitive and/or self-help delays reported during childhood (he has a reported delay of speech though); it states it near the end of the description IIRC. He's most likely one of those cases that border on AS and AD, that improve as they age; Lorna Wing gives a case study on such in one of her original five (I think it was five). Even if you had a speech delay, but you meet all of the symptoms of AS as an adult (and not ones for AD; AD ones are extreme aloofness or passive behavior, constantly rocking, and the usual stereotypical AD symptoms), they give you AS.

The more you read into it, the more stereotypical he is of a certain manifestation of ASD (not the rampage killing. That's totally different, of course, where no one really knows the full reasons for such; lots of speculation. I think perceived persecution might be a big factor. Just saying "psychopathy" like people do isn't it).


https://sites.google.com/site/gavinbollard/about-aspergers/dsm-iv-criteria-for-aspergers

Quote:
e.g.,when the Mental Retardation becomes apparent only in the school years, with no apparent cognitive or language delay in the first years of life)


I haven't seen anything in the DSMIVTR that suggests an individual with a clinically significant speech delay as described can be diagnosed with aspergers; however, even if the aspergers diagnosis is incorrect based on just the speech delay, he would have still met criteria for PDD NOS.

And in addition if the Aspergers diagnosis was excluded because of lack of RRB's which is the required criteria that Mullen disputes he could have definitely still met the criteria for PDD NOS, as one could be diagnosed with that disorder at that time if they only met the criteria for either the social interaction impairments or the social communication impairments, as only one of the triad were required at that time per DSMIV crititeria.

He likely would have met both those criteria, with his social communication difficulties, and was already determined to have met the social interaction impairment criteria.

I don't question a diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder, just the Asperger diagnosis based on the verbal delay, and while I had some difficulty finding the association of mental retardation in associated features, in the DSMIVTR, I found the clause quoted above but it does appear to only be relevant when there is no significant verbal delay.

The only way I can see that he was diagnosed with Aspergers in 2008, is if his prison psychiatrist was not aware of his verbal difficulties in childhood, ignored them, or they determined that the delay was not clinically significant, as those details of actual age when he started putting words together are not provided anywhere that I have been able to find online.



Rascal77s
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06 Aug 2012, 5:21 pm

Thanks for the lively discussion about diagnosis. So far it's about 20,000 words more than I care to read considering the topic of the tread. Please feel free to type to your hearts content until I can ask a mod to lock it. Don't worry there will be plenty of other threads to hijack :)



Verdandi
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06 Aug 2012, 7:40 pm

Dillogic wrote:
I didn't mean you.

I saw a program where a professional blamed Martin's actions on psychopathy. I think that's too simple. Martin himself said it was social ostracisation and bullying by the community as his reasons (he used to be teased when he'd go out in the community due to his eccentric behaviour); that alone is a factor that has nothing to do with psychopathy. Just because someone kills others, doesn't mean they're a psychopath.


All true.

It would shape his reactions, but he is not required to be a psychopath to have those reactions.



Verdandi
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06 Aug 2012, 7:40 pm

Mayel wrote:
Sorry for misreading you. I got the context wrong.

Anyway, very intresting discussion.


It's fine. Thank you. :)



aghogday
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06 Aug 2012, 8:13 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
Thanks for the lively discussion about diagnosis. So far it's about 20,000 words more than I care to read considering the topic of the tread. Please feel free to type to your hearts content until I can ask a mod to lock it. Don't worry there will be plenty of other threads to hijack :)


Sorry, I agree that the diagnosis of Martin is somewhat off topic, but it is associated with rampage killings and in reaction to the petition letter linked directly associated with autism speaks response that provided incorrect information as to the number of individuals diagnosed with autism, involved in mass murders, as Martin has been reported as diagnosed with an ASD.



Rascal77s
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06 Aug 2012, 8:46 pm

aghogday wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Thanks for the lively discussion about diagnosis. So far it's about 20,000 words more than I care to read considering the topic of the tread. Please feel free to type to your hearts content until I can ask a mod to lock it. Don't worry there will be plenty of other threads to hijack :)


Sorry, I agree that the diagnosis of Martin is somewhat off topic, but it is associated with rampage killings and in reaction to the petition letter linked directly associated with autism speaks response that provided incorrect information as to the number of individuals diagnosed with autism, involved in mass murders, as Martin has been reported as diagnosed with an ASD.


I get it but, how far do you want to pursue a chain of events leading to him flipping out. It seems like there's no end to the chain. Lets just say a butterfly farted in costa rica changing air currents ever so slightly leading his mother to sneeze in CO and delivering him prematurely which caused his problems. If we're going to guess and speculate for 4 pages might as well go all the way.



richardbenson
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06 Aug 2012, 9:07 pm

Yes. the struggle is a challenge, but so are thier lives. So what? I could care less about any organization mostley because they are nothing but a street gang all cleaned up and presentable. they lie, cheat, steal and bully others. If you dont think like them they bust out thier colors. now they wanna jump you!



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06 Aug 2012, 11:57 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Thanks for the lively discussion about diagnosis. So far it's about 20,000 words more than I care to read considering the topic of the tread. Please feel free to type to your hearts content until I can ask a mod to lock it. Don't worry there will be plenty of other threads to hijack :)


Sorry, I agree that the diagnosis of Martin is somewhat off topic, but it is associated with rampage killings and in reaction to the petition letter linked directly associated with autism speaks response that provided incorrect information as to the number of individuals diagnosed with autism, involved in mass murders, as Martin has been reported as diagnosed with an ASD.


I get it but, how far do you want to pursue a chain of events leading to him flipping out. It seems like there's no end to the chain. Lets just say a butterfly farted in costa rica changing air currents ever so slightly leading his mother to sneeze in CO and delivering him prematurely which caused his problems. If we're going to guess and speculate for 4 pages might as well go all the way.


That is pretty much why I am in opposition, to Scarborough's quote; what results in human behavior is very complex. The illustration of the issue of Bryant Martin has been studied for over a decade, yet there is still some disagreement over what his current diagnosis is.

Scarborough at least, made a wise choice in his disclaimer, in attempting to diagnose Holmes on TV, but at this point I am still not completely sure what his full intentions were in making the comment, as it was disjointed and wasn't really clear what he meant by an autism scale as far as some symptoms of autism, per problems in social interaction that can result in social isolation, as part of the "broader autism phenotype" or a full diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder.

It's obviously an emotional issue for him as he likely has personal concerns for his son, in the rough and tough society, that he feels inspired to share when an opportunity arises in his place of media influence, but this incident was not a good environment to try to make a point about the support needed by individuals on the spectrum where some do indeed experience problems with mental health, and lack proper support to cope in life.

I don't see it possible to ever get it cleared up, corrected, and apologized for unless someone actually does interview him with his cooperative effort, and asks those type of questions.



ComposerGal1928
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07 Aug 2012, 12:11 am

outofplace wrote:
Mirror21 wrote:
redrobin62 wrote:
The more I read about Autism Speaks, the more worthless they appear. They seem to be all about the money. Joe Scarborough's "clarification" was simply a sidestep. Autism Speaks accepts it as an apology because Scarborough is one of their funding sources. You know what they say - you don't bite the hand that feeds you. That's the case here. If any one of the thousands of us on WP call or write to Autism Soeaks to hear our story, they'd cast us aside like a used dish towel. If we came bearing gifts, well, that's a different story.


Yeah I am wondering who autism speaks talks for?


From what I have read, it speaks for parents having a pity party over having a child who is autistic.


I wonder whether or when they'll actually practice what they preach when they say "Autism speaks. It's time to listen."