Autism Speaks' Response to Joe Scarborough's Autism Comments

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Ettina
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26 Jul 2012, 9:49 pm

Well, it seems that although Autism Speaks wants autism to be seen as a horrible child-stealing monster, at least they don't want us to be seen as gun-slinging psychopaths.



Rascal77s
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26 Jul 2012, 10:53 pm

Ettina wrote:
Well, it seems that although Autism Speaks wants autism to be seen as a horrible child-stealing monster, at least they don't want us to be seen as gun-slinging psychopaths.


I don't know Ettina, if you read their response it seemed to me they were accepting (and trying to pass off) Scarborough's "clarification" as an apology. In my view his clarification was almost as bad as his original statement. I would only modify your statement by saying they don't want us to be seen as gun-slinging psychopaths but they'll sorta let it slide when there's money and influence at stake. Preferential treatment for a media plug and a check? You bet :wink:



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27 Jul 2012, 12:37 am

Rascal77s wrote:
One offense after another... This was an opportunity for Autism Speaks to gain some credibility with some of the many autistic people who have no trust or love for them. Instead they make an apologist statement with no weight or backbone and further alienate the autistic community they claim to serve. It appears as though their lips are firmly attached to Scarborough's ass as their statement is more focused on building 'you owe us one' collateral with the media than standing up for autistic people. I wanted to vomit after reading their statement. Perhaps Autism Speaks should stay focused on eugenics instead of pretending they speak for autistic individuals.

Quote:
We called Joe Monday to express our concerns about his comments on Monday’s “Morning Joe” program, and the offense taken by the autism community. He invited us on his show any time to discuss the issues facing the autism community, an opportunity we will take as soon as we can arrange it. Many were outraged and concerned by the comments; Joe Scarborough issued a clarification of his remarks in a public statement Tuesday.

We all have a responsibility to advocate for sensitivity and understanding for those who struggle with autism. Moving forward, we will continue to hold ourselves and others accountable for ensuring there is no discrimination against those who live every day with the challenges associated with autism.


I don't know what is more infuriating; Scarborough's comments or Autism Speaks' limp dick response. Am I missing something here?


It appears that you may have missed the statement by the other autism advocacy organization endorsed by ASAN, as well as ASAN's comment on the issue, per the "neurodiverse" viewpoint.

http://www.autism-society.org/news/autism-society-calls-for.html

Quote:
On Monday morning, co-host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe Joe Scarborough suggested the man suspected of committing last week’s tragic theatre shooting may be on the autism spectrum. The Autism Society stresses that no evidence exists to suggest this is true. While certainly we all will wonder what caused anyone to commit such a violent and tragic attack, we know for sure that autism cannot and must not ever be blamed for this behavior.

The Autism Society is hopeful that Mr. Scarborough agrees his statement was one he regrets making. As an organization representing families, the Autism Society appreciates that Mr. Scarborough is a very proud father of a son with Asperger’s syndrome and an advocate for the well-being of all people in our community.


http://autisticadvocacy.org/2012/07/asan-expresses-deep-concern-over-scarborough-remarks-suggesting-aurora-shooter-on-the-autism-spectrum/

Quote:
“Mr. Scarborough’s remarks suggesting that James Holmes, the shooter behind the Aurora movie theater killings, was an Autistic American are as perplexing as they are without evidence. No information on Mr. Holmes has suggested that he displays the diagnostic characteristics of autism and no evidence exists tying autism with violent behavior or threats to public safety. As a parent, Mr. Scarborough should know better than to perpetrate these types of unfortunate stereotypes. Autistic Americans are an integral part of our society and live, work and attend school alongside our non-Autistic peers. There exists no evidence linking autism with violent behavior. By spreading ill-founded and unsupported claims linking autism with violence, Mr. Scarborough does our community real harm. We urge him to reconsider and for him and MSNBC to retract his remarks.”


I think what you may also be missing is that Autism Speaks didn't suggest they agreed with the clarification, have called out the offense publicly, and are willing to go on his show to discuss the issue.

This is not a standard any lower than what the other two organizations listed above provided.

All three organizations are professional organizations, it would not be appropriate to provide less than a professional comment in response to the offense. ASAN's statement urging him to reconsider his remarks, is not exactly asking for his resignation. I have to give ASAN credit for dealing with an obvious non-credible statement in a professional manner.

Many were close to asking for his head on a platter, for making an emotionally driven statement not evidenced by facts. People do make mistakes, and this isn't the first time he as offered an opinion similar to this one, but this opinion was potentially more damaging per potential stigma as it presented a view of statistical incidence, that is not evidenced anywhere.

I think he should specifically be taken to task for the "more than often" statement on TV. Autism Speaks has the potential of doing that, as they have been invited on his TV show. It's a little to soon to pass judgement on whether or not Autism Speaks will take him to task on the parts of his statement that were not credible, and potentially stigmatizing for individuals in the autism community, on TV in the largest venue possible to set the record straight with the American public.

In no reasonable standard was any of the three statements of response by these proffesional organizations apologists statements, they were professional statements of concern over the actions of another professional that made a statement that was very offensive to people in the autism community.



aghogday
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27 Jul 2012, 12:51 am

Rascal77s wrote:

If you haven't watched RT I would recommend you give them a look. RT covers news that the other news organizations don't have the balls to talk about.


Not a criticism of that specific video, but the russian times also provides air time to conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones, that continues to promote the idea that vaccines cause autism. It's not considered a very reputable source for news. No reputable mainstream news source, would entertain the conspiracy theories that infowars puts out. It's even too much for Fox to entertain. But controversial enough to generate an audience for advertising dollars, for this "news" source.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_%28TV_network%29



Rascal77s
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27 Jul 2012, 1:00 am

aghogday wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
One offense after another... This was an opportunity for Autism Speaks to gain some credibility with some of the many autistic people who have no trust or love for them. Instead they make an apologist statement with no weight or backbone and further alienate the autistic community they claim to serve. It appears as though their lips are firmly attached to Scarborough's ass as their statement is more focused on building 'you owe us one' collateral with the media than standing up for autistic people. I wanted to vomit after reading their statement. Perhaps Autism Speaks should stay focused on eugenics instead of pretending they speak for autistic individuals.

Quote:
We called Joe Monday to express our concerns about his comments on Monday’s “Morning Joe” program, and the offense taken by the autism community. He invited us on his show any time to discuss the issues facing the autism community, an opportunity we will take as soon as we can arrange it. Many were outraged and concerned by the comments; Joe Scarborough issued a clarification of his remarks in a public statement Tuesday.

We all have a responsibility to advocate for sensitivity and understanding for those who struggle with autism. Moving forward, we will continue to hold ourselves and others accountable for ensuring there is no discrimination against those who live every day with the challenges associated with autism.


I don't know what is more infuriating; Scarborough's comments or Autism Speaks' limp dick response. Am I missing something here?


It appears that you may have missed the statement by the other autism advocacy organization endorsed by ASAN, as well as ASAN's comment on the issue, per the "neurodiverse" viewpoint.

http://www.autism-society.org/news/autism-society-calls-for.html

Quote:
On Monday morning, co-host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe Joe Scarborough suggested the man suspected of committing last week’s tragic theatre shooting may be on the autism spectrum. The Autism Society stresses that no evidence exists to suggest this is true. While certainly we all will wonder what caused anyone to commit such a violent and tragic attack, we know for sure that autism cannot and must not ever be blamed for this behavior.

The Autism Society is hopeful that Mr. Scarborough agrees his statement was one he regrets making. As an organization representing families, the Autism Society appreciates that Mr. Scarborough is a very proud father of a son with Asperger’s syndrome and an advocate for the well-being of all people in our community.


http://autisticadvocacy.org/2012/07/asan-expresses-deep-concern-over-scarborough-remarks-suggesting-aurora-shooter-on-the-autism-spectrum/

Quote:
“Mr. Scarborough’s remarks suggesting that James Holmes, the shooter behind the Aurora movie theater killings, was an Autistic American are as perplexing as they are without evidence. No information on Mr. Holmes has suggested that he displays the diagnostic characteristics of autism and no evidence exists tying autism with violent behavior or threats to public safety. As a parent, Mr. Scarborough should know better than to perpetrate these types of unfortunate stereotypes. Autistic Americans are an integral part of our society and live, work and attend school alongside our non-Autistic peers. There exists no evidence linking autism with violent behavior. By spreading ill-founded and unsupported claims linking autism with violence, Mr. Scarborough does our community real harm. We urge him to reconsider and for him and MSNBC to retract his remarks.”


I think what you may also be missing is that Autism Speaks didn't suggest they agreed with the clarification, have called out the offense publicly, and are willing to go on his show to discuss the issue.

This is not a standard any lower than what the other two organizations listed above provided.

All three organizations are professional organizations, it would not be appropriate to provide less than a professional comment in response to the offense. ASAN's statement urging him to reconsider his remarks, is not exactly asking for his resignation. I have to give ASAN credit for dealing with an obvious non-credible statement in a professional manner.

Many were close to asking for his head on a platter, for making an emotionally driven statement not evidenced by facts. People do make mistakes, and this isn't the first time he as offered an opinion similar to this one, but this opinion was potentially more damaging per potential stigma as it presented a view of statistical incidence, that is not evidenced anywhere.

I think he should specifically be taken to task for the "more than often" statement on TV. Autism Speaks has the potential of doing that, as they have been invited on his TV show. It's a little to soon to pass judgement on whether or not Autism Speaks will take him to task on the parts of his statement that were not credible, and potentially stigmatizing for individuals in the autism community, on TV in the largest venue possible to set the record straight with the American public.

In no reasonable standard was any of the three statements of response by these proffesional organizations apologists statements, they were professional statements of concern over the actions of another professional that made a statement that was very offensive to people in the autism community.


I didn't miss the other statements. I also didn't miss that the Autism Speaks statement was the only one that didn't mention what it is about the remark that people are upset about. It also, says nothing about 'no evidence linking autism to violence'.

For me "we called Joe" really set the limp tone for the rest of the statement. Just seems like their statement was one they had to make but made as insubstantial as possible. My opinion.



aghogday
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27 Jul 2012, 1:46 am

Rascal77s wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
One offense after another... This was an opportunity for Autism Speaks to gain some credibility with some of the many autistic people who have no trust or love for them. Instead they make an apologist statement with no weight or backbone and further alienate the autistic community they claim to serve. It appears as though their lips are firmly attached to Scarborough's ass as their statement is more focused on building 'you owe us one' collateral with the media than standing up for autistic people. I wanted to vomit after reading their statement. Perhaps Autism Speaks should stay focused on eugenics instead of pretending they speak for autistic individuals.

Quote:
We called Joe Monday to express our concerns about his comments on Monday’s “Morning Joe” program, and the offense taken by the autism community. He invited us on his show any time to discuss the issues facing the autism community, an opportunity we will take as soon as we can arrange it. Many were outraged and concerned by the comments; Joe Scarborough issued a clarification of his remarks in a public statement Tuesday.

We all have a responsibility to advocate for sensitivity and understanding for those who struggle with autism. Moving forward, we will continue to hold ourselves and others accountable for ensuring there is no discrimination against those who live every day with the challenges associated with autism.


I don't know what is more infuriating; Scarborough's comments or Autism Speaks' limp dick response. Am I missing something here?


It appears that you may have missed the statement by the other autism advocacy organization endorsed by ASAN, as well as ASAN's comment on the issue, per the "neurodiverse" viewpoint.

http://www.autism-society.org/news/autism-society-calls-for.html

Quote:
On Monday morning, co-host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe Joe Scarborough suggested the man suspected of committing last week’s tragic theatre shooting may be on the autism spectrum. The Autism Society stresses that no evidence exists to suggest this is true. While certainly we all will wonder what caused anyone to commit such a violent and tragic attack, we know for sure that autism cannot and must not ever be blamed for this behavior.

The Autism Society is hopeful that Mr. Scarborough agrees his statement was one he regrets making. As an organization representing families, the Autism Society appreciates that Mr. Scarborough is a very proud father of a son with Asperger’s syndrome and an advocate for the well-being of all people in our community.


http://autisticadvocacy.org/2012/07/asan-expresses-deep-concern-over-scarborough-remarks-suggesting-aurora-shooter-on-the-autism-spectrum/

Quote:
“Mr. Scarborough’s remarks suggesting that James Holmes, the shooter behind the Aurora movie theater killings, was an Autistic American are as perplexing as they are without evidence. No information on Mr. Holmes has suggested that he displays the diagnostic characteristics of autism and no evidence exists tying autism with violent behavior or threats to public safety. As a parent, Mr. Scarborough should know better than to perpetrate these types of unfortunate stereotypes. Autistic Americans are an integral part of our society and live, work and attend school alongside our non-Autistic peers. There exists no evidence linking autism with violent behavior. By spreading ill-founded and unsupported claims linking autism with violence, Mr. Scarborough does our community real harm. We urge him to reconsider and for him and MSNBC to retract his remarks.”


I think what you may also be missing is that Autism Speaks didn't suggest they agreed with the clarification, have called out the offense publicly, and are willing to go on his show to discuss the issue.

This is not a standard any lower than what the other two organizations listed above provided.

All three organizations are professional organizations, it would not be appropriate to provide less than a professional comment in response to the offense. ASAN's statement urging him to reconsider his remarks, is not exactly asking for his resignation. I have to give ASAN credit for dealing with an obvious non-credible statement in a professional manner.

Many were close to asking for his head on a platter, for making an emotionally driven statement not evidenced by facts. People do make mistakes, and this isn't the first time he as offered an opinion similar to this one, but this opinion was potentially more damaging per potential stigma as it presented a view of statistical incidence, that is not evidenced anywhere.

I think he should specifically be taken to task for the "more than often" statement on TV. Autism Speaks has the potential of doing that, as they have been invited on his TV show. It's a little to soon to pass judgement on whether or not Autism Speaks will take him to task on the parts of his statement that were not credible, and potentially stigmatizing for individuals in the autism community, on TV in the largest venue possible to set the record straight with the American public.

In no reasonable standard was any of the three statements of response by these proffesional organizations apologists statements, they were professional statements of concern over the actions of another professional that made a statement that was very offensive to people in the autism community.


I didn't miss the other statements. I also didn't miss that the Autism Speaks statement was the only one that didn't mention what it is about the remark that people are upset about. It also, says nothing about 'no evidence linking autism to violence'.

For me "we called Joe" really set the limp tone for the rest of the statement. Just seems like their statement was one they had to make but made as insubstantial as possible. My opinion.


Interesting that if you found autism speaks response offensive, that you wouldn't have pointed out the autism society's gratitude for Scarborough's service as an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement, in response to Scarborough's statement.

While ill founded, his comments come from concern, not malicious intent. If Autism Speaks had stated Scarborough was an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement it would have been the topic of conversation for pages, or even if they duplicated ASAN's respectful language that they urged him to re-consider his comments.

It seems that Autism Speaks is not going to be able to make any comment about any subject and expect to be treated in a consistently respectful manner, it's an interesting phenomenon, that doesn't make logical sense to me, as there is no credible evidence that the organization has maliciously disrespected anyone, regardless if one disagrees with their mission and goals.

Joe Scarborough was vilified by some in the autism community, because he mentioned in his response that he supported efforts in the autism community, per organizations like Autism Speaks. The Autism Society appreciates his support as well as autism speaks, but they both called him out on the offense taken by his statement, as did the ASAN organization.



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27 Jul 2012, 4:39 am

aghogday wrote:
Interesting that if you found autism speaks response offensive, that you wouldn't have pointed out the autism society's gratitude for Scarborough's service as an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement, in response to Scarborough's statement.



Quote:
The Autism Society is hopeful that Mr. Scarborough agrees his statement was one he regrets making. As an organization representing families, the Autism Society appreciates that Mr. Scarborough is a very proud father of a son with Asperger’s syndrome and an advocate for the well-being of all people in our community.


I don't know, seems like doublespeak suggesting he make an apology despite being proud father yada yada yada....

aghogday wrote:
While ill founded, his comments come from concern, not malicious intent. If Autism Speaks had stated Scarborough was an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement it would have been the topic of conversation for pages, or even if they duplicated ASAN's respectful language that they urged him to re-consider his comments.

It seems that Autism Speaks is not going to be able to make any comment about any subject and expect to be treated in a consistently respectful manner, it's an interesting phenomenon, that doesn't make logical sense to me, as there is no credible evidence that the organization has maliciously disrespected anyone, regardless if one disagrees with their mission and goals.

Joe Scarborough was vilified by some in the autism community, because he mentioned in his response that he supported efforts in the autism community, per organizations like Autism Speaks. The Autism Society appreciates his support as well as autism speaks, but they both called him out on the offense taken by his statement, as did the ASAN organization.


What can I say ahogaday, a lot of autistic people have a legitimate gripe with Autism Speaks. Not going to argue about it. It is what it is.



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27 Jul 2012, 5:47 am

Rascal77s wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Interesting that if you found autism speaks response offensive, that you wouldn't have pointed out the autism society's gratitude for Scarborough's service as an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement, in response to Scarborough's statement.



Quote:
The Autism Society is hopeful that Mr. Scarborough agrees his statement was one he regrets making. As an organization representing families, the Autism Society appreciates that Mr. Scarborough is a very proud father of a son with Asperger’s syndrome and an advocate for the well-being of all people in our community.


I don't know, seems like doublespeak suggesting he make an apology despite being proud father yada yada yada....

aghogday wrote:
While ill founded, his comments come from concern, not malicious intent. If Autism Speaks had stated Scarborough was an advocate for the well-being of all in the autism community in their statement it would have been the topic of conversation for pages, or even if they duplicated ASAN's respectful language that they urged him to re-consider his comments.

It seems that Autism Speaks is not going to be able to make any comment about any subject and expect to be treated in a consistently respectful manner, it's an interesting phenomenon, that doesn't make logical sense to me, as there is no credible evidence that the organization has maliciously disrespected anyone, regardless if one disagrees with their mission and goals.

Joe Scarborough was vilified by some in the autism community, because he mentioned in his response that he supported efforts in the autism community, per organizations like Autism Speaks. The Autism Society appreciates his support as well as autism speaks, but they both called him out on the offense taken by his statement, as did the ASAN organization.


What can I say ahogaday, a lot of autistic people have a legitimate gripe with Autism Speaks. Not going to argue about it. It is what it is.


I agree that there have been legitimate gripes in the past, but in a comparison of autism speaks statement with autism society's statement, the latter commending Scarborough for his advocacy for the well-being of those in the autism community, directly after politely suggesting that they hope he understands the gravity of his mistake, and regrets it, is a statement that reinforces Scarborough's value to the autism community regardless of the mistake. While it is obvious that Autism Speaks feels the same way with the reference to "Joe", the Autism Society makes it more than clear they feel the same way.

Organizations make mistakes, people make mistakes, but if there were no forgiveness of mistakes or understanding that people and organizations see the world differently, and are inclined to make mistakes in communication, there would be no potential for cooperation among human beings or organizations.

This is part of why one sees the level of decor provided by all the organizations in their comments. Both the Autism Society and Autism Speaks as well as Joe Scarborough are on the same page of general advocacy and cooperation per that advocacy, so none of the three are going to disrespectfully condemn each other for mistakes, other than mediating a positive direction from those mistakes.

ASAN was respectful and professional in their response to Joe Scarborough's comment as one might expect that organization to demand that he be reprimanded by MSNBC for his comments, but that organization now endorses the Autism Society ASA that endorses Joe Scarborough, so a higher level of overall respect is now a likely standard, per public comments on their website in alignment with their endorsement of ASA.

Bottom line is Autism Speaks response is not reasonably more offensive than ASA's response, regardless of how one might view one organization or the other, if the perceived problem is Joe Scarborough's statement, and not an opportunity to put one organization in a darker light than the others.

Or can you sincerely say that if Autism Speaks provided the same response that ASA made that you would not focus on it as an issue of offense.

We are all subject to the phenomenon of bias; it's a powerful advantage to strengthen one's ability to avoid it when possible. Not a suggestion for this thread as we are all anonymous and can provide whatever opinion we want, but a larger one for potential success in the larger avenues of life.

That is one of the benefits of organizations and people that cooperate, everyone is more likely to be successful in the long run, per achievements and potential mistakes.

There is no potential of any real autism community or self advocacy effort without that cooperation. One can see ASAN finally moving in that direction with their endorsement of the ASA organization that supports "a cure" associated ideology. Organizations and people associated with those organizations that do not cooperate do not achieve nearly as much, per their missions and goals.



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05 Aug 2012, 1:33 am

A post on this topic by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg (link)

Quote:
I am finding it difficult to begin this piece.

It’s not that I can’t find the words. When I’m writing, I can almost always find the words. It’s that what I want to write about is painful almost beyond words.

In the wake of Joe Scarborough’s uttering the falsehood that autism is linked to mass murder and his erroneous statement that most mass murderers are autistic, well over 11,000 people signed a petition demanding a retraction. To date, Mr. Scarborough and MSNBC have still not seen fit to fulfill their journalistic obligation of setting the record straight. Autism Speaks put out an absolutely useless statement that did not, in any way, refute Mr. Scarborough’s remarks; the organization might as well have remained completely silent. Only the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, the Autism Society of America, and the Autism Society Canada spoke up in protest.

In the wake of these failures of conscience, people in the autism and autistic communities have been left to deal with the fallout. And yes, there has been fallout. I have been talking with autistic people, autism parents, and allies about this issue for nearly two weeks, and the constant refrain I hear is, “We are afraid of what will happen to us, to our children, to our loved ones, and to our friends.”


More at the link.

I agree with her that Autism Speaks' response is lackluster, but she elaborates further on the situation. I hope this isn't further hijacked with walls of text about whether or not it's correct to dislike Autism Speaks because I think that Rachel makes important points that shouldn't be sidetracked.



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05 Aug 2012, 2:47 am

Mirror21 wrote:
redrobin62 wrote:
The more I read about Autism Speaks, the more worthless they appear. They seem to be all about the money. Joe Scarborough's "clarification" was simply a sidestep. Autism Speaks accepts it as an apology because Scarborough is one of their funding sources. You know what they say - you don't bite the hand that feeds you. That's the case here. If any one of the thousands of us on WP call or write to Autism Soeaks to hear our story, they'd cast us aside like a used dish towel. If we came bearing gifts, well, that's a different story.


Yeah I am wondering who autism speaks talks for?


NT parents who are without a clue


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05 Aug 2012, 6:12 am

Verdandi wrote:
A post on this topic by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg (link)

Quote:
I am finding it difficult to begin this piece.

It’s not that I can’t find the words. When I’m writing, I can almost always find the words. It’s that what I want to write about is painful almost beyond words.

In the wake of Joe Scarborough’s uttering the falsehood that autism is linked to mass murder and his erroneous statement that most mass murderers are autistic, well over 11,000 people signed a petition demanding a retraction. To date, Mr. Scarborough and MSNBC have still not seen fit to fulfill their journalistic obligation of setting the record straight. Autism Speaks put out an absolutely useless statement that did not, in any way, refute Mr. Scarborough’s remarks; the organization might as well have remained completely silent. Only the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, the Autism Society of America, and the Autism Society Canada spoke up in protest.



In the wake of these failures of conscience, people in the autism and autistic communities have been left to deal with the fallout. And yes, there has been fallout. I have been talking with autistic people, autism parents, and allies about this issue for nearly two weeks, and the constant refrain I hear is, “We are afraid of what will happen to us, to our children, to our loved ones, and to our friends.”


More at the link.

I agree with her that Autism Speaks' response is lackluster, but she elaborates further on the situation. I hope this isn't further hijacked with walls of text about whether or not it's correct to dislike Autism Speaks because I think that Rachel makes important points that shouldn't be sidetracked.


I did not make a statement about whether it was correct to dislike Autism Speaks, as everyone has a right to dislike whatever they want to dislike, I discussed the topic of autism speaks response and the reaction to it in this thread.

Autism Speaks contacted Mr. Scarborough directly on the Monday before he made his clarification on a Tuesday; it is possible that Mr. Scarborough and MSNBC would have not even made an attempt at a clarification if Autism Speaks had not contacted him with concern, as the organization likely continues to have some influence with the network.

It is also possible that this is the reason they waited as long as they did to comment, to allow him to present a clarification of what he meant, if he misspoke, as a professional courtesy, if the Autism Society is correct in their assertion that Mr. Scarborough is a valued advocate for the autism community.

Autism Speaks did not suggest they accept his clarification, however it was the official response of the network and Mr. Scarborough; a discussion and further clarification of the issue on prime time TV, is worth more than any potential written apology or retraction, to set the record straight with the hundreds of thousands of people that actually watch that particular show.

At this point there is no professional diagnosis for Holmes, but Scarborough is the only professional journalist in the media that has brought up the potential of autism as an associated factor in this situation and he is obviously not a person qualified to provide a professional opinion, as potential mental illness has been the focus of professional criminal profilers from almost day one.

Aspergers was much more of a visible issue in the media per the Anders Breivik case, and still is. Beyond the diagnosis of Martin Bryant of Aspergers that has been disputed, these are the only two cases of rampage killings that have been associated with Aspergers, by an actual psychiatrist providing a diagnostic opinion in the actual criminal justice process.

Overall I agree with Rachael's viewpoints on the issues, but she has also made an incorrect statement in suggesting that no mass murderers have ever been diagnosed with autism in the petition update, as this information on Breivik and Bryant has been in the media as recent as a few months ago on Breivik and in 2011 on a 60 minutes segment on Bryant, with an additional statement that he was diagnosed with Aspergers in prison, in 2007, which has not been confirmed by a psychiatrist, and likely never will be as it is private medical information outside of information provided in the court case.

It is possible that these two recent cases in the media impacted Scarborough's opinion, which was grossly overstated, as there are no other Autism Diagnoses, for "rampage killers", that have been made available in the legal process for any other case.

http://www.change.org/petitions/joe-scarborough-msnbc-retract-your-statements-about-autism-and-the-colorado-shooting

Quote:
Your statement was both prejudicial and factually incorrect. Not a single mass murderer has ever been diagnosed with autism. Not one.


If there is stigma generated from this specific case, it is already almost entirely one of mental illness, which Scarborough too, generated his focus above and beyond "the autism scale", as he stated most of it has to do with mental health.

Diagnosed Mental illness is the studied factor most often associated with rampage killings; most often schizophrenia, per the 2000 study on Rampage Killings presented in the New York Times, but it is only one of many potential factors, that work together to result in a rampage killing. This should be the focus to reduce potential stigma instead of a direct focus on mental illness as a causal factor. And the complex interaction of many factors is the focus among professionals that actually study rampage killings, and likely in part, explains why they are so rare.

And as far as a general sidetrack of this issue of Scarborough and his comments, the focus on autism speaks, as part of the offense, among those that take offense at that organization, would have as likely been the case if the organization made the same exact comment as the autism society did, per the expression of gratitude of his advocacy of those in the autism community.

And we can wait and see if Autism Speaks is provided credit by actual oppositional advocacy organizations like ASAN, if they can get Scarborough to make an actual apology and correction of his statement on live TV, in an interview with autism speaks.

If one is looking for the best potential of reducing potential stigma from the result of Scarborough's specific statement, that is likely the best case scenario for the future, at this point, as it has the potential of reaching the largest number of individuals, as the topic of a show with autism speaks will likely be advertised well in advance of the interview.

No doubt there will be a larger than usual number of people watching to see what will result from that conversation. It likely will be hard for him to get out alive of the interview without providing an apology, as Autism Speaks too, is on the proverbial hook, to make it happen, for good public relations. :)



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05 Aug 2012, 6:25 am

Breivik was not diagnosed with AS. It was a suggested diagnosis, not an actual evaluation. Also suggested was narcissistic personality disorder and Tourette's. And the doctor who suggested it did so by making a false claim about AS (that it left him incapable of empathy or friendship).

Bryant was also diagnosed with ADHD + conduct disorder, which is per Dr. Russell Barkley a very high predictor for psychopathy, and even without the psychopathy is fairly severe and problematic.

Asperger's Syndrome would not explain his decision to go on a killing spree. However, conduct disorder and psychopathy very well could have.

Barkley says here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7smSmXwtZQ8[/youtube]



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05 Aug 2012, 7:38 am

Please correct me if I am wrong aghogday or Verdandi, but as far as I know, Bryant was evaluated and found to have an IQ of 66. It's my current understanding that if a person's IQ is too low (not sure of the exact cutoff point, maybe 70? - but I do know 66 is considered too low), that they cannot be diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.


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05 Aug 2012, 6:24 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Asperger's Syndrome would not explain his decision to go on a killing spree. However, conduct disorder and psychopathy very well could have.

In all the descriptions I've read about him he's being described as quiet,reserved, highly intelligent, easy-going and studious. Someone who doesn't break rules or laws. Apparently someone who doesn't even use drugs.
I don't think that sounds like conduct disorder and/or psychopathy but I could be wrong.

This article doesn't really explain why someone would do such things but gives a generalized view of anger and planned violence.


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05 Aug 2012, 6:55 pm

Verdandi wrote:
A post on this topic by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg (link)

Quote:
I am finding it difficult to begin this piece.

It’s not that I can’t find the words. When I’m writing, I can almost always find the words. It’s that what I want to write about is painful almost beyond words.

In the wake of Joe Scarborough’s uttering the falsehood that autism is linked to mass murder and his erroneous statement that most mass murderers are autistic, well over 11,000 people signed a petition demanding a retraction. To date, Mr. Scarborough and MSNBC have still not seen fit to fulfill their journalistic obligation of setting the record straight. Autism Speaks put out an absolutely useless statement that did not, in any way, refute Mr. Scarborough’s remarks; the organization might as well have remained completely silent. Only the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, the Autism Society of America, and the Autism Society Canada spoke up in protest.

In the wake of these failures of conscience, people in the autism and autistic communities have been left to deal with the fallout. And yes, there has been fallout. I have been talking with autistic people, autism parents, and allies about this issue for nearly two weeks, and the constant refrain I hear is, “We are afraid of what will happen to us, to our children, to our loved ones, and to our friends.”


More at the link.

I agree with her that Autism Speaks' response is lackluster, but she elaborates further on the situation. I hope this isn't further hijacked with walls of text about whether or not it's correct to dislike Autism Speaks because I think that Rachel makes important points that shouldn't be sidetracked.


This was pretty much my point about autism speaks. I'm just not interested in dissecting those walls of text either. I call it like I see it.


Rascal77s wrote:
One offense after another... This was an opportunity for Autism Speaks to gain some credibility with some of the many autistic people who have no trust or love for them. Instead they make an apologist statement with no weight or backbone and further alienate the autistic community they claim to serve. It appears as though their lips are firmly attached to Scarborough's ass as their statement is more focused on building 'you owe us one' collateral with the media than standing up for autistic people. I wanted to vomit after reading their statement. Perhaps Autism Speaks should stay focused on eugenics instead of pretending they speak for autistic individuals.

Quote:
We called Joe Monday to express our concerns about his comments on Monday’s “Morning Joe” program, and the offense taken by the autism community. He invited us on his show any time to discuss the issues facing the autism community, an opportunity we will take as soon as we can arrange it. Many were outraged and concerned by the comments; Joe Scarborough issued a clarification of his remarks in a public statement Tuesday.

We all have a responsibility to advocate for sensitivity and understanding for those who struggle with autism. Moving forward, we will continue to hold ourselves and others accountable for ensuring there is no discrimination against those who live every day with the challenges associated with autism.


I don't know what is more infuriating; Scarborough's comments or Autism Speaks' limp dick response. Am I missing something here?



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05 Aug 2012, 7:17 pm

Watch this video. Listen to what this as*hole says in response to the CO shooting and AS. This s**t is what many people think but don't say. This is what people connected to autism fear. He even goes on to say something along the lines of 'most autistic people are homosexual causing them to be hated even more'.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzaRKGMPok[/youtube]


P.S. Please flag this c**t for hate speech on youtube.