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TheSunAlsoRises
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29 Jul 2012, 11:03 am

I see THAT it says THAT you are 15 on your profile.

I want to ask you one question and i want you to think about it, carefully.

IS this a true statement: Aspergers is so mild on the Autism scale THAT every Aspie should be able to work.

Whatever conclusion you come to is fine BUT give it some serious thought.

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mmcool
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29 Jul 2012, 12:41 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I see THAT it says THAT you are 15 on your profile.

I want to ask you one question and i want you to think about it, carefully.

IS this a true statement: Aspergers is so mild on the Autism scale THAT every Aspie should be able to work.

Whatever conclusion you come to is fine BUT give it some serious thought.

TheSunAlsRises

it depends on job cartin jobs no like call centre stuff, receptionist ect... (or other jobs with hard social stuff)
yes to email support job or live text or anything that involves knowage would be a good job

so the awser is it depends on job



TheSunAlsoRises
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29 Jul 2012, 1:48 pm

mmcool wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I see THAT it says THAT you are 15 on your profile.

I want to ask you one question and i want you to think about it, carefully.

IS this a true statement: Aspergers is so mild on the Autism scale THAT every Aspie should be able to work.

Whatever conclusion you come to is fine BUT give it some serious thought.

TheSunAlsRises

it depends on job cartin jobs no like call centre stuff, receptionist ect... (or other jobs with hard social stuff)
yes to email support job or live text or anything that involves knowage would be a good job

so the awser is it depends on job


It depends......Excellent.

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Wandering_Stranger
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29 Jul 2012, 3:45 pm

mmcool wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
It's a reason not an excuse.

A reason that needs to be carefully consider and not used as an excuse.

IF considerations were not taken John Elder Robison's son would be sitting in Federal Prison.

IF considerations were not taken, i imagine quite a few people with Aspergers may have some sort of contact with the criminal justice system(including minor infractions) at a much higher rate than the general population.

Anything less than a case by case analysis of a particular situation would be a gross unjustice....

*Just an opinion and should be taken as such.

TheSunAlsoRises


aspergers is so mild on the asd it should never be used in any cases
a person with aspergers understands what they doing is wrong


I honestly wonder if you understand what Aspergers is at all. I have a brother with it. When he was younger, my sister, mum & I would go out with him. I remember several times he had a meltdown due to seeing a cranefly or something.

Given that Aspergers is different for everyone, I don't understand how you can say it's so mild. You might as well say it doesn't exist...



mmcool
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29 Jul 2012, 4:15 pm

Wandering_Stranger wrote:
mmcool wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
It's a reason not an excuse.

A reason that needs to be carefully consider and not used as an excuse.

IF considerations were not taken John Elder Robison's son would be sitting in Federal Prison.

IF considerations were not taken, i imagine quite a few people with Aspergers may have some sort of contact with the criminal justice system(including minor infractions) at a much higher rate than the general population.

Anything less than a case by case analysis of a particular situation would be a gross unjustice....

*Just an opinion and should be taken as such.

TheSunAlsoRises


aspergers is so mild on the asd it should never be used in any cases
a person with aspergers understands what they doing is wrong


I honestly wonder if you understand what Aspergers is at all. I have a brother with it. When he was younger, my sister, mum & I would go out with him. I remember several times he had a meltdown due to seeing a cranefly or something.

Given that Aspergers is different for everyone, I don't understand how you can say it's so mild. You might as well say it doesn't exist...


i do understand it
and yes i do know what meltdows are( a compleat lose of the persons emosans leading to a uncontrallable temper tamtem)



thomas81
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29 Jul 2012, 4:15 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I for one wouldn't say I use aspergers as an 'excuse' per sae, but i would say that the nature of my job is at odds with my aspergers which causes me more problems than my colleagues.

Its essential to know where to draw the line, otherwise genuinely you run the risk of creating equality issues for people on the spectrum.

On the other hand, theres no way you could use aspergers to justify serious crimes, like murder or theft. As someone else said, it doesn't impair moral judgement.


A condition that involves social impairments could in my opinion impair 'judgements' ....considered by society to be those of a moral nature.

TheSunAlsoRises



I think someone even on the lowest end of the spectrum can comprehend the idea that extreme crimes such as murder constitute 'wrongdoing'.

If not even more so, as we tend to think in binary terms that way.

Its the ambiguous greyscale bit in between that causes us problems.



thomas81
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29 Jul 2012, 4:19 pm

mmcool wrote:
i do understand it
and yes i do know what meltdows are( a compleat lose of the persons emosans leading to a uncontrallable temper tamtem)


On the contrary, a meltdown and temper tantrum are entirely different.

A temper tantrum is something like a toddler bawling in the middle of the street because his mummy will not buy him a toy he saw in the window. He thinks that through throwing the tantrum his mummy will reverse her decision. Temper tantrums are goal orientated, whereas meltdowns are non-goal orientated organic catastrophic reactions to stress overload. They are of entirely different qualities.



TheSunAlsoRises
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29 Jul 2012, 4:38 pm

thomas81 wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I for one wouldn't say I use aspergers as an 'excuse' per sae, but i would say that the nature of my job is at odds with my aspergers which causes me more problems than my colleagues.

Its essential to know where to draw the line, otherwise genuinely you run the risk of creating equality issues for people on the spectrum.

On the other hand, theres no way you could use aspergers to justify serious crimes, like murder or theft. As someone else said, it doesn't impair moral judgement.


A condition that involves social impairments could in my opinion impair 'judgements' ....considered by society to be those of a moral nature.

TheSunAlsoRises



I think someone even on the lowest end of the spectrum can comprehend the idea that extreme crimes such as murder constitute 'wrongdoing'.If not even more so, as we tend to think in binary terms that way.

Its the ambiguous greyscale bit in between that causes us problems.



I disagree. Again, it's a spectrum. I think this would depend on a host of factors including cognitive abilities as well as behavioral difficulties.

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29 Jul 2012, 4:52 pm

Let me iterate: Your Autism, your relatives Autism, your friends Autism, your neighbors Autism, etc is not indicative of everyone else. Can people with so-called 'Low Functioning Autism' understand 'wrong doing' ? Ofcourse, many can. This is not my argument. As a matter of fact, quite a few Autists who have identified themselves as "low functioning Autistics" on this site express themselves far more articulate than ANYONE regardless of neurology.

What I am stating is THAT there is the possibility ,do to a condition that can greatly impair socialization(with co-morbids that are not easily separable), that Autistics judgement can be affected....(and I'm not willing to put a limit on the extent of a crime)....

TheSunAlsoRises



Last edited by TheSunAlsoRises on 29 Jul 2012, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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29 Jul 2012, 4:55 pm

I don't. I usually do anything I can to deny it.


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thomas81
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29 Jul 2012, 5:00 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Let me iterate your Autism, your relatives Autism, your friends Autism, your neighbors Autism, etc is not indicative of everyone elses. Can people with so-called 'Low Functioning Autism' understand 'wrong doing' ? Ofcourse, many can. This is not my arguement. As a matter of fact, quite a few Autists who have indentified themselves as "low functioning Autistics" on this site express themselves far more articulate than ANYONE regardless of neurology.

What I am stating is THAT there is the possibility ,do to a condition that can greatly impair socialization(with co-morbids that are not easily separable), that Autistics judgement can be effected....(and i'm not willing to put a limit on the extent of a crime)....

TheSunAlsoRises

I'm not strictly disagreeing with you, I just think that FOR THE MOST PART, autistics, bar those with other unrelated mental and/or neurological issues across the functional spectrum understand that murder is wrong.

Then on the other hand some may have their own political or philosophical reasons for commiting such crimes. Some people may know the crime is wrong, but simply don't care. Understanding of right and wrong and the ability to refrain do not necessarilly mutually assume each other.Sometimes its difficult to paint all cases with the same moral yardstick, regardless of the persons neurology or awareness of actions.



TheSunAlsoRises
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29 Jul 2012, 5:20 pm

thomas81 wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Let me iterate your Autism, your relatives Autism, your friends Autism, your neighbors Autism, etc is not indicative of everyone elses. Can people with so-called 'Low Functioning Autism' understand 'wrong doing' ? Ofcourse, many can. This is not my arguement. As a matter of fact, quite a few Autists who have indentified themselves as "low functioning Autistics" on this site express themselves far more articulate than ANYONE regardless of neurology.

What I am stating is THAT there is the possibility ,do to a condition that can greatly impair socialization(with co-morbids that are not easily separable), that Autistics judgement can be effected....(and i'm not willing to put a limit on the extent of a crime)....

TheSunAlsoRises


I'm not strictly disagreeing with you, I just think that FOR THE MOST PART, autistics, bar those with other unrelated mental and/or neurological issues across the functional spectrum understand that murder is wrong.

Then on the other hand some may have their own political or philosophical reasons for commiting such crimes. Some people may know the crime is wrong, but simply don't care. Understanding of right and wrong and the ability to refrain do not necessarilly mutually assume each other.Sometimes its difficult to paint all cases with the same moral yardstick, regardless of the persons neurology or awareness of actions.


I'm not so sure. I would have to see cases where there were no co-morbids. These cases would have to include ONLY the three main components of Autism (1) impairment in social interaction (2) impairment in communication and (3) restrictive and repetitive behavior. I'm not sure BUT i'm of the belief THAT these cases are extremely difficult to find.

I can SEE how a combination of the three could have an affect on judgement in knowing the difference between right from wrong without co-morbids.

I can understand your position as well. BUT, i have to consider possibilities regardless IF the probability is less.....

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playgroundlover
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29 Jul 2012, 9:37 pm

Surfman Wrote:
I had an undiagnosed aspie rugby friend years ago who was an alcoholic

He went to the local petrol station @2am and stole 2 loaves of bread, walking up to the video survelliance camera, laughing like mad man with the loaves in hand, then running off into the night

In cases like this, I think autism or 'mental health' issues should used as an excuse for some crimes
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Now no offense to your friend but as an aspie, I disagree. My parents raised me right and taught me not to steal. So I don't; case closed. There's no excuses for it. I'd imagine his parents taught him not to steal too. I'm almost certain that he knew what he was doing. As I said in my last post, asperger's can be used as an excuse for certain things such as poor motor skills/poor social skills but it can't be used as an excuse to break the law.



philippepetit
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30 Jul 2012, 10:44 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
mmcool wrote:
i think that aspergers is used as excuse too much. will killers and computer hackers using it as a way to get out of trouble
aspergers is not that major of a thing people with it should still know the diffences between right and wrong.
people with aspergers should still be done under the extent of the law.


do you agree ?


It's a spectrum. It depends on how Autism and any co-morbids are expressed in the indivdual.

An ethical question would be: IS it humane to place a person with social impairments(due to a medical condition) amongst a general prison population...

I think there is a reason they are holding off on closing the Judge Rotenberg Center.

TheSunAlsoRises
it's not ethical to put anybody in a us prison, lol
barbaric



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31 Jul 2012, 4:52 am

mmcool wrote:
i do understand it
and yes i do know what meltdows are( a compleat lose of the persons emosans leading to a uncontrallable temper tamtem)


Two different things.



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04 Aug 2012, 7:42 am

mmcool wrote:

aspergers is so mild on the asd it should never be used in any cases
a person with aspergers understands what they doing is wrong



yes someone with AS will likely have a sense of right/wrong but it is also unlikely to be the same as everyone else and therefore it is unlikely to be fully compatible with the law of a given nation..

as I have stated previously..

the law of a nation is the direct result of the culture of that nation.. culture is a by- product of social integration.. so how can you expect people with ASDs to fully understand it.. or dare I say care about it?


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