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paxfilosoof
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29 Jul 2012, 10:35 am

Hey everyone,

I've a question: Is feminism more common in autistic females?

thanks



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29 Jul 2012, 10:38 am

Please define "feminism."

It's not a monolithic entity.

Thanks.


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paxfilosoof
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29 Jul 2012, 10:49 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Please define "feminism."

It's not a monolithic entity.

Thanks.


Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.

But I take it even further: Feminism is the dominance of the females over the males. what males did with females. (just a different mating system I guess)



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29 Jul 2012, 10:54 am

paxfilosoof wrote:
Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.


Correct.

Quote:
But I take it even further: Feminism is the dominance of the females over the males. what males did with females. (just a different mating system I guess)


*sigh* No, that what some feminists might want, but it does not define "feminism" as a whole.

In any case, no, I really have no idea if AS females are any more or less likely to be "feminists."


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29 Jul 2012, 10:57 am

Wanting equal rights for women? Of course.

Thinking females should be dominant? Heck no. That's as bad as males being dominant. What I want is for gender to be irrelevant when it comes to deciding who ought to call the shots--we should depend on those who have the best leadership ability and are best able to pull together information from all kinds of sources, who can listen to experts while not being experts themselves, who can understand and care about those who are not like themselves, who can make tough decisions in tight situations... and none of that has anything to do with what you've got in your underpants.

But, by any definition other than "I think females are better", I'm a feminist. I understand that women still have to deal with some stereotypes and that women are still underrepresented in many fields where their natural ability does not limit them (ex., it makes more sense for there to be more male firefighters because males have higher physical strength; it does not make sense for there to be more male laywers, because there is no fundamental difference between the genders' ability to understand and communicate legal concepts). But just as I support the inclusion of females into areas where they are traditionally excluded, I believe we ought to be careful not to limit men's opportunities in an attempt to support female equality. Men often come off worst in child custody and divorce proceedings. Our culture disapproves of men who like "traditionally female" activities like taking care of young children, being a home-maker, or engaging in "feminine" hobbies like quilting and cooking. We should work toward equality in those areas as well.


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29 Jul 2012, 11:06 am

paxfilosoof wrote:
Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.



Probably. At least I imagine AS women are more likely to notice the problems with mainstream society, because we are less embedded in it. That might not only mean awareness of the toll of sexism on women, but also on men (something you "just don't talk about" in many circles because of the adversarial way the whole topic is set up).
I, at least, am inclined to believe traditional gender roles can be damaging to people of all genders.

paxfilosoof wrote:
But I take it even further: Feminism is the dominance of the females over the males. what males did with females. (just a different mating system I guess)


That is only feminism as defined by anti-feminists and a handful on the extreme fringe. I doubt it. I do think there is a tendency for some women to behave as though this is what they believe even though they claim to promote equality, but that's hypocrisy. You know who's really into hypocrisy? NT's.



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29 Jul 2012, 11:11 am

I don't believe anyone on the autistic spectrum is more or less likely to hold problematic sexist (among other -isms) views, or that being autistic necessarily grants one special insight into existing patterns of oppression.



paxfilosoof
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29 Jul 2012, 11:11 am

Callista wrote:
Wanting equal rights for women? Of course.

Thinking females should be dominant? Heck no. That's as bad as males being dominant. What I want is for gender to be irrelevant when it comes to deciding who ought to call the shots--we should depend on those who have the best leadership ability and are best able to pull together information from all kinds of sources, who can listen to experts while not being experts themselves, who can understand and care about those who are not like themselves, who can make tough decisions in tight situations... and none of that has anything to do with what you've got in your underpants.

But, by any definition other than "I think females are better", I'm a feminist. I understand that women still have to deal with some stereotypes and that women are still underrepresented in many fields where their natural ability does not limit them (ex., it makes more sense for there to be more male firefighters because males have higher physical strength; it does not make sense for there to be more male laywers, because there is no fundamental difference between the genders' ability to understand and communicate legal concepts). But just as I support the inclusion of females into areas where they are traditionally excluded, I believe we ought to be careful not to limit men's opportunities in an attempt to support female equality. Men often come off worst in child custody and divorce proceedings. Our culture disapproves of men who like "traditionally female" activities like taking care of young children, being a home-maker, or engaging in "feminine" hobbies like quilting and cooking. We should work toward equality in those areas as well.


Interesting. I personally have some 'girly' activities aswell. Like you said cooking, I love to make vegan food.

I was just wondering. The female aspies (I don't want to generalise) I met, are what I would say: "they want to dominate their male(s)". They are very good in handling couple of males at the same time.
And it seems to me that many aspie males are more passive. They have some "girly" interest (what our society say is girly) too.

So I was just wondering



paxfilosoof
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29 Jul 2012, 11:13 am

Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe anyone on the autistic spectrum is more or less likely to hold problematic sexist (among other -isms) views, or that being autistic necessarily grants one special insight into existing patterns of oppression.


I never said sexist or porblematic views autistic people have. I just noticed a couple of aspie-friends I have, also are feminists.



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29 Jul 2012, 11:27 am

I doubt there are more autistic feminists than non-autistic feminists. I would imagine that a higher level of education might well make women more interested in wider issues in society (including the issues around feminism) although that is not the case for me as I have little education and would describe myself as a feminist.

Feminism at it's most basic is (and should be) about equality, which we have to varying degrees in the West. Feminism is a movement that encompasses people with all sort of different views and influences so there will be a wide variety of different expressions of feminism. Feminism should have nothing to do with dominating men, and men who believe in equality can also be described as feminists. As a feminist I would support things such as equal pay for women, equal rights when it comes to education, inheritance and suffrage as well as women being able to make free choices about their use of contraception, choose when and to whom they get married and gain legal protection against domestic violence, sexual exploitation and abuse. These are not big things to ask for.

In my personal life I am quite traditional: my (male) partner makes all the major decisions about our life, pays the bills (I contribute but I don't deal with the payments), I do the majority of the housework and when we are married I will give up work to look after our family. I simply want other women, all over the world to be able to choose how they want to live their lives, just as I have been able to do.



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29 Jul 2012, 11:35 am

paxfilosoof wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe anyone on the autistic spectrum is more or less likely to hold problematic sexist (among other -isms) views, or that being autistic necessarily grants one special insight into existing patterns of oppression.


I never said sexist or porblematic views autistic people have. I just noticed a couple of aspie-friends I have, also are feminists.


That was a response to the post directly above mine, not to you.

However, I would say your assertion that feminism being about female supremacy is an all-too-common sexist belief many men have about feminism as a movement. I don't know how you drew your conclusions, but in general it seems to be anxiety about the problem of women possibly being on equal footing. One example that comes to mind was when Michael Buerk noticed that women were making headway into the BBC. Although they did not hold the majority of positions available in the BBC, the increased visibility of women in broadcasting led him to claim that women were taking over.



paxfilosoof
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29 Jul 2012, 11:51 am

Verdandi wrote:
paxfilosoof wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe anyone on the autistic spectrum is more or less likely to hold problematic sexist (among other -isms) views, or that being autistic necessarily grants one special insight into existing patterns of oppression.


I never said sexist or porblematic views autistic people have. I just noticed a couple of aspie-friends I have, also are feminists.


That was a response to the post directly above mine, not to you.

However, I would say your assertion that feminism being about female supremacy is an all-too-common sexist belief many men have about feminism as a movement. I don't know how you drew your conclusions, but in general it seems to be anxiety about the problem of women possibly being on equal footing. One example that comes to mind was when Michael Buerk noticed that women were making headway into the BBC. Although they did not hold the majority of positions available in the BBC, the increased visibility of women in broadcasting led him to claim that women were taking over.


Lol, I'm myself a sort of feminist



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29 Jul 2012, 11:52 am

SilkySifaka wrote:
I doubt there are more autistic feminists than non-autistic feminists. I would imagine that a higher level of education might well make women more interested in wider issues in society (including the issues around feminism) although that is not the case for me as I have little education and would describe myself as a feminist.

Feminism at it's most basic is (and should be) about equality, which we have to varying degrees in the West. Feminism is a movement that encompasses people with all sort of different views and influences so there will be a wide variety of different expressions of feminism. Feminism should have nothing to do with dominating men, and men who believe in equality can also be described as feminists. As a feminist I would support things such as equal pay for women, equal rights when it comes to education, inheritance and suffrage as well as women being able to make free choices about their use of contraception, choose when and to whom they get married and gain legal protection against domestic violence, sexual exploitation and abuse. These are not big things to ask for.

In my personal life I am quite traditional: my (male) partner makes all the major decisions about our life, pays the bills (I contribute but I don't deal with the payments), I do the majority of the housework and when we are married I will give up work to look after our family. I simply want other women, all over the world to be able to choose how they want to live their lives, just as I have been able to do.


Do you have a aspie male? or a neurotypical male?



Last edited by paxfilosoof on 29 Jul 2012, 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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29 Jul 2012, 11:53 am

Verdandi wrote:
I don't believe anyone on the autistic spectrum is more or less likely to hold problematic sexist (among other -isms) views, or that being autistic necessarily grants one special insight into existing patterns of oppression.


I said. I did not say that we were less likely to be sexist, but less likely to be hypocritical. Specifically, claiming one is for equality when actually one is promoting one's own interests is dishonest, and we are certainly less likely to be dishonest. A sexist person on the spectrum would likely be blunter about his/her beliefs.
I also did not say we had "special insight", however, I have observed that we seem to be more likely to hold unconventional beliefs in general and it seems reasonable to me that this stems from being less inhibited by concern for upholding norms to maintain harmony. NT's often seem more worried about whether an idea might rock the boat than whether anything can be learned from it.



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29 Jul 2012, 12:26 pm

paxfilosoof wrote:
Do you have a aspie male? or a neurotypical male?


My partner is neurotypical.



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29 Jul 2012, 2:15 pm

paxfilosoof wrote:
Interesting. I personally have some 'girly' activities aswell. Like you said cooking, I love to make vegan food.

I was just wondering. The female aspies (I don't want to generalise) I met, are what I would say: "they want to dominate their male(s)". They are very good in handling couple of males at the same time.
And it seems to me that many aspie males are more passive. They have some "girly" interest (what our society say is girly) too.

So I was just wondering
Dominate men? Why would I want to do that? Honestly, when I interact with people, I often forget their gender after a while--I'm only conscious of it to the degree that they might be attracted to me, if I am of their preferred gender, because I'm asexual and I don't want to lead them on. I certainly don't want to dominate anyone. When I choose to interact with somebody, it's because they have interesting ideas. While I might pester them with questions or lecture at them, that behavior doesn't differ by gender, and I don't think it is "dominant" behavior to begin with. It's just me being my usual overly pedantic self.


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