Inappropriate Affection toward Young Girls

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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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21 Aug 2012, 5:15 pm

A male can sometimes get an erection from over-energy or from purely physiological causes. In a similar way, I remember reading in a book of memoirs that a woman experienced unexpected sexual arousal when her cat walked across her breasts.

But . . .

feen wrote:
. . . It doesn't appear that she [Joe's mom] has any idea of the inappropriate affection issues I'm describing here, for one, or both, of the following reasons: 1) She is blinded by her love for her son, and/or 2) He does not display this behavior when she is present.

Joe's dad is also loved by all of us, but also appears to "not get" the extent of Joe's differences. . .


If Joe is in fact hiding it from his parents, that kind of tips the scales toward abuse.


PS I AM NOT A PARENT. I do live the life of a person on the Spectrum. And I do have two nieces who I love and care about their welfare.



thewhitrbbit
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21 Aug 2012, 7:16 pm

That is interesting. Hiding the behavior would demonstrate that he knows it's wrong.

I think action must be taken before he does something bad.



momsparky
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21 Aug 2012, 8:12 pm

Not in any way trying to diminish the importance and urgency of this matter, but I wanted to recommend the book "A 5 Is Against The Law." http://www.amazon.com/Is-Against-Law-So ... st+the+law It goes into specific detail about many social behaviors that might be construed as sexual advances towards people who don't want that kind of attention, why that is not acceptable, and the possible consequences of it. It doesn't specify children, but it does tell the reader in no uncertain terms that there are behaviors that will put you in jail, and offers samples of some of those behaviors.

You are right, your nephew may have no awareness that this kind of behavior is inappropriate and unwanted. Spelling it out for him may be an important first step. I think you or the childrens' parents are well within your rights to tell this young man's parents that they either need to put a stop to this behavior (armed with a copy of the book as a gift) or that either he or the children will not be coming to family gatherings - and if it's not your children, I would recommend that the parents present this information/ultimatum.

Another step is to have a discussion with the children about "safe" touch and "unsafe" touch, and let them know it is ALWAYS ok to refuse hugs and kisses from anyone for any reason, and that anything that makes them feel uncomfortable is NOT their fault, that you saw something happening that you thought should stop and wanted to let them know they will be protected.

From what I gather from your post, it isn't clear exactly what is happening with this young man, but I think his parents need an intervention to make them realize this is an issue requiring professional oversight.



Chronos
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21 Aug 2012, 9:04 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
A male can sometimes get an erection from over-energy or from purely physiological causes. In a similar way, I remember reading in a book of memoirs that a woman experienced unexpected sexual arousal when her cat walked across her breasts.


It's true that boys and men might occasionally experience unwanted erections due to stimulus that isn't actually sexually arousing in a psychological way, but causes an erection none the less. But most take measures to hide or stop this when it begins to happen, and most don't engage in questionable "affectionate" behavior.



The_Perfect_Storm
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22 Aug 2012, 2:18 am

Confront the boy, get his side of the story.

It may be one big misunderstanding or there may be a genuine problem.

I find it strange that he wouldn't know that the behaviour is wrong (if sexual).

If he admits to liking young girls, keep him the f**k away at all times. After all if he does have this kind of sexual attraction his behaviour is already too dangerous to allow it to continue imo.

Speak to the parents beforehand, or not. Keep calm and see what info you can get out of him. No need for any aggressiveness or accusations. As far as you know he's done nothing wrong so far and as far as you know he may not even understand it's wrong (which honestly I find unlikely, but who knows).

In any case it needs to be made clear that his behaviour is unacceptable. It may not be quick and easy to change his behaviour but if you constantly drill it into him when it's appropriate I'm sure he'll get the message. Ultimately though if you've been thorough and nothing is working, you may have to exclude him from certain events. If he's freaking people out it's just not worth the trouble.

If the parents refuse to cooperate at all... well that's not good enough. Obviously you and others don't trust this boy any more.



aann
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22 Aug 2012, 6:58 am

You said he seems to hide this from his mom. This might indicate he doesn't get affection from his mom and he is seeking it elsewhere. He had not sought it originally for the sexual response, but that is a secondary consequense. Then, since he got that response, he's kinda hooked.

I don't think he is aware - he's being too obvious.

I don't know if you pray, but I would pray for devine wisdom. You don't want to rush in too quickly or harshly with parent or young adult b/c they are not aware and will only get defensive, hardened, and worse. You will not be heard. On the other hand, you and your wife must be firm and take whatever guff they give you.

Your wife might be aware or can find out if law allows her to talk with your nephew before you approach his parents. I assume the parents might be more defensive than the young man.



The_Perfect_Storm
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22 Aug 2012, 7:15 am

aann wrote:
A) You said he seems to hide this from his mom. This might indicate he doesn't get affection from his mom and he is seeking it elsewhere. He had not sought it originally for the sexual response, but that is a secondary consequense. Then, since he got that response, he's kinda hooked.

B) I don't think he is aware - he's being too obvious.

C) I don't know if you pray, but I would pray for devine wisdom. You don't want to rush in too quickly or harshly with parent or young adult b/c they are not aware and will only get defensive, hardened, and worse. You will not be heard. On the other hand, you and your wife must be firm and take whatever guff they give you.

D) Your wife might be aware or can find out if law allows her to talk with your nephew before you approach his parents. I assume the parents might be more defensive than the young man.


A) The reason is irrelevant. If he is using children for his own sexual gratification it needs to stop.

B) This is probably true. You'd have to be a real moron to knowingly do something like that around your family.

C) lol @ the prayer stuff. I agree that any intervention is unlikely to be easy though.

D) Why would there be a law? The guy is an adult now and talk is just talk. Plus, hey, they're not going to get law enforcement involved unless they want to broadcast the fact that the whole neighbourhood suspects this kid is a pedophile.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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22 Aug 2012, 1:50 pm

momsparky wrote:
. . . Another step is to have a discussion with the children about "safe" touch and "unsafe" touch, and let them know it is ALWAYS ok to refuse hugs and kisses from anyone for any reason, and that anything that makes them feel uncomfortable is NOT their fault, that you saw something happening that you thought should stop and wanted to let them know they will be protected. . .

Parents do make their kids hug relatives they don't want to hug. As an alternative, maybe parents could teach the easy back pat as a way to bring a hug to a gracious end.

And I quite agree about good touch, bad touch. Now, it sure seems to me---and again I am not a parent---that if parents emphasize stranger danger, they may well be doing their children a disservice. That it could be an adult or teenager known and trusted by the family who tries to do something sexual with the child, in whatever age appropriate way the parent thinks best to communicate this information.



momsparky
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22 Aug 2012, 3:54 pm

We don't. We've told DS that if he doesn't want to hug or kiss someone, to let us know and we'll help protect him from that.

There are many psychologists who suggest that one should not require kids to hug or use other affectionate physical gestures beyond a handshake from anyone unless they feel comfortable doing it - for this very reason. I think in a situation where this is a specific problem in the family, the other relatives will understand if parents want to err on the side of protecting their children.



The_Perfect_Storm
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22 Aug 2012, 8:45 pm

momsparky wrote:
We don't. We've told DS that if he doesn't want to hug or kiss someone, to let us know and we'll help protect him from that.


Don't people get offended? Personally I like the idea but I tended to get a fair bit of backlash whenever I tried to back out of things I wasn't comfortable with.



momsparky
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22 Aug 2012, 9:53 pm

Yes, they do - and we explain that we are teaching him that he is in charge of his own body, and that they need to respect that. We sometimes follow up hard cases with an explanation that kids who are allowed to make their own choices about physical contact are safer: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/living/gi ... index.html

Plus, since he has AS, those kinds of forced social contacts are excruciating for him. We do ask him to politely shake hands, and we try to let it go at that.



The_Perfect_Storm
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23 Aug 2012, 9:29 am

momsparky wrote:
Yes, they do - and we explain that we are teaching him that he is in charge of his own body, and that they need to respect that. We sometimes follow up hard cases with an explanation that kids who are allowed to make their own choices about physical contact are safer: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/living/gi ... index.html

Plus, since he has AS, those kinds of forced social contacts are excruciating for him. We do ask him to politely shake hands, and we try to let it go at that.


Fair enough. Have you thought about the next step though? Do you intend to try and make him get used to it eventually or allow him to avoid it forever and ever?

Just seems to me that the older you get the more pressure there is to conform to these things.



feen
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23 Aug 2012, 11:35 am

Thx to ALL for their feedback. Very helpful. If nothing else, it has strengthened my resolve to address this as soon as possible.

One minor adjustment to my original post...

Regarding not displaying this behavior in front of his mom... I did *not* mean to imply that he definitely does not do this in front of her. I actually do not know one way or the other. I was actually theorizing why she *may* be oblivious to this issue. It may be that consciously, unconsciously, or coincidentally, he has not done it in her presence. He is pretty autonomous - he drives his own car, and often visits our many relatives by himself, so it is quite possible that she has never seen this inappropriate behavior.

In any event, it's a minor point. What is important is that we need to make Joe unequivocally understand the inappropriateness, and danger, of this behavior. You all have helped me get even clearer on this point, and I thank you.



momsparky
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23 Aug 2012, 2:35 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
Fair enough. Have you thought about the next step though? Do you intend to try and make him get used to it eventually or allow him to avoid it forever and ever?

Just seems to me that the older you get the more pressure there is to conform to these things.


DS does not always refuse to hug someone, he simply chooses the when and where himself. If he doesn't feel like a hug, he either says "No, thank you," or "I don't feel like hugging, thank you." (When he was younger, I would step in and say "I don't think he feels like a hug right now.") I don't see this as a negative in any situation, no matter how old he is.

My point is that the "pressure to conform" is exactly the tool used by individuals who take advantage of people. I am not saying that everyone who forces a hug is a predator, but one does wonder about the motives of those who would force an unwilling child to hug or kiss them.



keiko
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23 Aug 2012, 10:10 pm

One other thing I wanted to add to everyone's thoughtful advice.

As someone who works in mental health I've had some experience with this. I helped run a weekly group therapy session with teenagers who were sexual abusers of children. All of the teens had been abused themselves. Hopefully, your nephew became inappropriately aroused on one occasion and there is no larger problem. But, if he is sexually attracted to young kids in general, then I would recommend that, after you get Joe and any potential victims out of harms way, you gently explore whether he was ever victimized. Regardless of the course you and your sister take I think it would be helpful to involve a therapist/psychiatrist/social worker, whoever, just someone he could speak openly with. I know it may not be possible but obviously this is very very heavy stuff you're dealing with. good luck



Shellfish
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28 Aug 2012, 2:48 am

League_Girl wrote:
If he is having an erection because he is around kids, that means he is a pedophile. Sure that doesn't mean he will touch them wrong because not all pedophiles do that and only 20% of them actually do it.
Only?? surely it should be, 20% of paedophiles act on it!!


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