the secret in why women play games with men

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Wolfheart
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22 Aug 2012, 9:57 am

spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.


That is the p**** footing way of doing things, just go up to a girl and tell her straight, a good line to use is "I'm out to talk to some beautiful girls tonight" or "I'm out to talk to a beautiful girl today".



aSKperger
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22 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm

yellowtamarin - As I said, you have to tell him directly. You know he is interested, he doesn't know you are not. Leaving means nothing. NO is something they would understand. If not, scream and run.


Quote:
I came up with those because they are things I do.
Personally I'd prefer if he would just tell me.


And we would prefer if you tell us, so we don't need to touch/look/do other crap and be accused of it later ;)



hyperlexian
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22 Aug 2012, 1:02 pm

spongy wrote:
FMX wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
If I was interested in continuing things further I should say so (e.g. "I'm just going to see how my friend is doing but I'd like to continue this conversation later on"), just as he ought to really let me know he is interested.


So what is the way that a man can let a woman know he's interested? Not that I'm likely to actually do it, but still, could be a handy thing to know. :) I honestly don't understand how people do this. It seems to "just happen". But how?

One of the many books Ive read lately has a simple principle: you dont approach anyone without a motive.
Make sure that you have a plausible explanation for approaching someone ready before you do anything and make a point to tell your reason to be there verbally/non verbally within the first minutes.

If you dont do this the other person is likely to start being concerned about why you approached them and chances are they´ll find a reason to end the conversation rather soon.

The book says I dont care if your reason is that you were attracted to the other person or whatever but you´ll find that there are some times when its better to let them guess your intentions rather than outright say: I have no reason for approaching you I just think you are hot.

a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


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TallyMan
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22 Aug 2012, 1:07 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


So he didn't put his foot in it then? But if the shoe had been on the other foot?



hyperlexian
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22 Aug 2012, 1:08 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Personally I'd prefer if he would just tell me. Something like "I'm really enjoying chatting with you, you are really interesting". Generally I don't think a guy would tend to say something like that if he was only up for a friendly chat, though I could be wrong?

i regularly advise people on the forum to say something similar, regardless of gender. it's a sort of "bridge" that can be used to continue an initial conversation. something similar also works when crossing over from friendship to relationship. it is an awkward and shaky bridge, but it's better than the alternative of getting stuck and either never seeing the person again or losing the moment.


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hyperlexian
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22 Aug 2012, 1:10 pm

TallyMan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


So he didn't put his foot in it then? But if the shoe had been on the other foot?

:lol: i see what you did there. you're one step ahead of me as i almost answered you seriously


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Stalk
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22 Aug 2012, 3:14 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
That is the p**** footing way of doing things, just go up to a girl and tell her straight, a good line to use is "I'm out to talk to some beautiful girls tonight" or "I'm out to talk to a beautiful girl today".


Now that is something I understand and can mirror.



Stalk
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22 Aug 2012, 3:18 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


That's the only part that justifies the effort I think. Off to go talk about women with their shoes.



knowbody15
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22 Aug 2012, 5:36 pm

Stalk wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
That is the p**** footing way of doing things, just go up to a girl and tell her straight, a good line to use is "I'm out to talk to some beautiful girls tonight" or "I'm out to talk to a beautiful girl today".


Now that is something I understand and can mirror.


The problem with this line is that it translates to "I am only interested in your lady parts, let me know if you'll show them to me, otherwise, I'm gonna move on." lol


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yellowtamarin
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22 Aug 2012, 5:39 pm

aSKperger wrote:
Leaving means nothing.

And this I find slightly troubling, why does leaving mean nothing? I'm ending the conversation, walking away, and giving no indication that that means he should follow after me. There's no game playing going on here (if it was me), it's frustrating that a man would have to assume I might be playing hard to get, because that's what the typical woman would do. I don't like that I have to modify what I consider to be straight-forward behaviour, just because other people play games.

It seems logical to me that if I walk away, I will come back to him if I'm interested, just as if a man walked away from me, I'd wait to see if he came back (i.e. I'd get on with my life) rather than chasing after him and potentially hassling him. It should be very easy to do, and avoids "thanks for the chat but I'm not interested in pursuing anything" "oh that's good because I was just chatting while my girlfriend is in the bathroom, get over yourself". Again remember I'm talking here about when no nobody has made a clear indication that they are interested.



yellowtamarin
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22 Aug 2012, 5:55 pm

aSKperger wrote:
yellowtamarin - As I said, you have to tell him directly. You know he is interested, he doesn't know you are not. Leaving means nothing. NO is something they would understand. If not, scream and run.


Quote:
I came up with those because they are things I do.
Personally I'd prefer if he would just tell me.


And we would prefer if you tell us, so we don't need to touch/look/do other crap and be accused of it later ;)

Yes, if I know he's interested, I agree. But men don't always make it clear. The things I'm saying only apply when it's not clear.

Oh those thing I said I do, if I think they haven't worked in letting him know, I will tell him in words. But generally when I'm touching a guys leg while we are talking, he gets the hint ;) Flirting is fun, I think it's good to do some of that before saying it in words. I just don't think that if I'm not flirting, that I should have to tell him in words that I'm not interested. If I was just chatting, I should be able to just walk away. (Actually even if I was flirting, I should be able to just walk away. If I'm into the guy, I'm only walking away cos I need to pee or something. I'll come back.)

You know I think the main problem here is not that I'm not a game player, but that I'm not really into being physically pursued, or is that a game in itself? Anyhow as the minority, I suppose I do have to modify my behaviour to make it clear I'm not a game player. I just find it frustrating that I have to do this.



aSKperger
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22 Aug 2012, 6:36 pm

Hmmmm... The problem is, you suppose.
You admit you like to flirt, to use body language, not to be absolutely straightforward. It is ok. But don't forget to use empathy. Don't forget to ask yourself "does he understand? What does he feel/see/hear/think?"
Because YOU SUPPOSE he knows. But does he? You never know until you ask directly or declare your position directly. That's the only safe way.

Quote:
I suppose I do have to modify my behaviour to make it clear I'm not a game player. I just find it frustrating that I have to do this.

I would say we all shoud change our behaviour to become more open and frank. But we are afraid too much.



yellowtamarin
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22 Aug 2012, 6:50 pm

aSKperger wrote:
Hmmmm... The problem is, you suppose.
You admit you like to flirt, to use body language, not to be absolutely straightforward. It is ok. But don't forget to use empathy. Don't forget to ask yourself "does he understand? What does he feel/see/hear/think?"
Because YOU SUPPOSE he knows. But does he? You never know until you ask directly or declare your position directly. That's the only safe way.

Quote:
I suppose I do have to modify my behaviour to make it clear I'm not a game player. I just find it frustrating that I have to do this.

I would say we all shoud change our behaviour to become more open and frank. But we are afraid too much.

Hm. I see what you are saying, and I'm trying to picture this kind of situation. I think when I'm flirting a bit with a guy, in the early stages of a conversation, I probably haven't fully made up my mind as to where I see it going, just that so far he seems worth flirting with. To say something out loud at this point would kind of ruin the moment, no? What would I say? I say how I feel once I know how I feel (actually not always, I might just kiss him. Should I have used words instead?). No matter what anyone says, thinks, feels, does during the conversation though, I still want to be able to walk away without being chased. Even if he is the guy of my dreams. Even if I have told him so. If I walk away, I still think it's up to me to come back. Am I missing out on opportunities when a guy walks away from me and I don't follow him? That's a disturbing thought.

My default stance is, if it isn't clear he likes me, I'm going to assume he doesn't, til he makes it clear. I would like guys to take that stance with me also. It makes sense, probability-wise, to take this stance.



yellowtamarin
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22 Aug 2012, 7:20 pm

Sorry, I'm flooding this thread with my posts. I hope I'm not getting off-topic but I'm having fun nutting this out :)

aSKperger, you have mentioned "you know he's interested". I just want to comment on that.

How do I know?

Do I know because he told me? If he told me, explicitly, I certainly would have returned the favour and told him how I felt. Problem solved.
Do I know because he is flirting with me? Well if I'm supposed to know by his "non-straightforward" methods, then perhaps he is supposed to know by mine? Why do I need to be explicit in this case, if he is not? If he's using body language, etc., then I'm going to assume he feels he can read mine.
Do I know because HE is the one who approached ME? If that's all he needs to do to show me he is interested, then all I should need to do to show him I'm not is WALK AWAY. Seems like the appropriate response?



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22 Aug 2012, 10:18 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately it does usually "just happen" which makes it harder for us clueless people. I'm not your standard girl you might meet at a bar, but anyway I'm trying to think of what might work for me as good signals, other than saying "hey I like you!". Touches (like touching my arm or leg) while we are talking, more eye contact that your average conversation, "the look"...that's all I've got for now. I came up with those because they are things I do. I'm lucky I suppose because I don't have eye contact problems when looking at someone I'm attracted to.

Personally I'd prefer if he would just tell me. Something like "I'm really enjoying chatting with you, you are really interesting". Generally I don't think a guy would tend to say something like that if he was only up for a friendly chat, though I could be wrong?


Thanks, that's good to know. I don't really have a problem with eye contact either, so I guess that's something I could actually do - but I might have to consciously remind myself to do it. Touching her leg is a bit of a stretch - that just seems inappropriate to me, but what do I know? Arm - maybe. Or maybe just saying it would be the best way for an aspie after all, even when talking to an NT? Who knows. I'd like to see what reactions that would get from NTs, but I'm not going to be the one to run this particular social experiment!

It's interesting that you include yourself in "clueless people", even though you seem to know quite a bit about this stuff. Or maybe you didn't really mean that and were just trying to avoid insulting others by saying "you clueless people". ;)

hyperlexian wrote:
a friend of mine once sparked up a conversation with a woman because he said something along the lines of, "my sister has the same shoes as you." i am not sure if that qualifies as a reason for a conversation, but it stuck in my mind as a brilliant way to get a conversation going. to me it was effective because the comment:

1. focused on her accessory, not her body
2. showed he had noticed something about her
3. showed that he might have a decent enough relationship with another female in his life as he paid attention
4. had a logical conclusion, so if the conversation didn't go anywhere he could exit gracefully

EDIT: i should add, the conversation "went" somewhere :wink:


There's a reason why I wouldn't approach someone in a bar, right there. See, to me, that sounds like a totally stupid thing to say. Clearly it wasn't in this case - but I just don't see how that conversation would proceed. "Erm... OK... thanks for letting me know :?" followed by a muttered "what the hell?" So how did it actually proceed, if you know? What was the her reply and what was the very next thing he said?

This is also the first time I hear of a guy not only noticing, but remembering women's shoes so well - unless, of course, he was just making that up.



hyperlexian
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23 Aug 2012, 4:11 am

i don't know the conversation that ensued in between the compliment about the shoes and the bedroom, FMX. i have my own ideas (i talk a lot and can often get people talking as well), but i am not sure what my friend actually said next.


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