Page 3 of 4 [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

MindSlinger
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 6

17 Sep 2012, 4:19 pm

Hi Lostgirl,
Here is my opinion, for what it's worth to you.

I was raised in a Christian back ground too.
And, like you, I do not believe in the God they paint in their stories.
But, I do feel something.
Some niggling presence in the neck hairs of my mind.
After the horrible experiences (which I won't go into here.) I had with Christian churches, I ran away from that feeling of presence. Many years later, as an adult, I realized that I could stop running.
I could imagine.
I imagine that God is pure mind. I also imagine that God is other things. In fact, imagining different ways to imagine God is one of my favorite things to imagine.
But here are the facts as I see them:

If there is an afterlife, then I will find the truth of it soon enough.
(I can wait to find out.)
But since there is no way, so far, to know one way or the other, I feel free to keep imagining.
Furthermore, imagining that there is an afterlife is good for me.
On the other hand, if there is no afterlife, then I will never know that there is no afterlife, and that also makes me free to imagine what I like.

So, I imagine that my job is to imagine.
Let the truth take care of itself.

Thanx,
MindSlinger



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,605
Location: the island of defective toy santas

17 Sep 2012, 11:50 pm

robert monroe wrote 3 books about the subject, and his daughter laurie runs the monroe institute to this day, which is devoted to learning more about "journeys out of the body."



FMX
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,319

18 Sep 2012, 11:03 am

TallyMan wrote:
Sometimes I use the "pattern and flow" based thinking for debugging certain types of program code. If I have a loop processing a range of numbers and do various manipulations with those numbers within the loop, sometimes an image presents itself in my mind - I see what can best be described as a river with the flow moving and sometimes widening, narrowing, splitting or converging - a trickle falling over the edge literally means there is a boundary error in the code e.g. ending up with trying to evaluate something like 1/0.


Wow. That sounds awesome. You must be able to write some pretty reliable code if you can visualise it and detect bugs like that. I wish I could!



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Sep 2012, 11:17 am

FMX wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Sometimes I use the "pattern and flow" based thinking for debugging certain types of program code. If I have a loop processing a range of numbers and do various manipulations with those numbers within the loop, sometimes an image presents itself in my mind - I see what can best be described as a river with the flow moving and sometimes widening, narrowing, splitting or converging - a trickle falling over the edge literally means there is a boundary error in the code e.g. ending up with trying to evaluate something like 1/0.


Wow. That sounds awesome. You must be able to write some pretty reliable code if you can visualise it and detect bugs like that. I wish I could!


Groking the code is the best way of writing reliable code.

ruveyn



JNathanK
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,177

18 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

Kurgan wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
For better and for worse. I think its the same thing over and over again. Your consciousness will have plenty of new input I think, or at least a rehash of the same stuff, over and over again, throughout eternity. I don't think you'll just float around in a void of darkness forever. I think everything is cyclical and linearity is an illusion. Just like we thought the earth was flat because we didn't have enough foresight and perspective to see that the earth was in fact a round globe, I think time and existential reality is the same exact way.


Actually, the flat earth myth was popularized by fiction. Apart from the peasants, scholars, priests and sailors in the middle-age were perfectly aware of it's spherical shape.


It depends on the era. When Genesis was written, the writers of the myth ascribed ti a flat earth view. In the late middle ages and renaissance, it wasn't so much the case though as has been assumed. Yes Colombus didn't discover the shape of the planet, but it still is one of the more primitive assumptions. There's even people today who assert the world is flat, though the number is way lower than it used to be thousands of years ago.

I never even claimed that people in the middle ages believed it was flat. i was just saying that this was a perception in the general past, which is true. Even for many of those who believed in a round earth, the antipodes was a very common view, which is sort of a flat earth view or semi-flat earth view by default, since its the idea that the earth is like a marble but affixed to the floor of the universe, rendering the southern hemisphere of the planet uninhabitable, since you'd obviously fall off past a certain point.

I see this fear of eternal hell or eternal death as a modern antipodes. There's a general acknowledgement of the cyclical nature of time, but still an irrational fear that after we venture out too far into the unknown of the bardo, that we'll fall into an endless abyss. I think we are the endless abyss itself and that consciousness and the universe organizes itself into the present form we find ourselves just like how waves form on an ocean. I really don't think this is anything all that unusual, but maybe the unusual feeling of the experience is an intrinsic apart of it all.



Rudywalsh
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 347
Location: Spain (Born uk)

19 Sep 2012, 1:32 pm

I believe we have a conscience conditioned from birth, our life. I also believe our spirit has its own conscience. Why do you think we have so many mental condition the scientist can’t work out, conditions with dual personalities such as Bi-polar and Terrace Syndrome?

I’m not religious, so I’m not speaking from any books. I have had out of body experiences most of my life, something no Doctor can explain.

If you perceived yourself in two different places at the same time, aware of your surroundings from two states of mind, what would anybody think?
We have two consciences, one for this life, conditioned, and one for the afterlife. our mind (The Spirit)



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

19 Sep 2012, 1:53 pm

Rudywalsh wrote:
I believe we have a conscience conditioned from birth, our life. I also believe our spirit has its own conscience. Why do you think we have so many mental condition the scientist can’t work out, conditions with dual personalities such as Bi-polar and Terrace Syndrome?

I’m not religious, so I’m not speaking from any books. I have had out of body experiences most of my life, something no Doctor can explain.

If you perceived yourself in two different places at the same time, aware of your surroundings from two states of mind, what would anybody think?
We have two consciences, one for this life, conditioned, and one for the afterlife. our mind (The Spirit)


Bipolar is due to an imbalance of neurotransmitters. People who are bipolar do not have two spirits! :lol: I'm cyclothymic myself - a very mild form of bipolar. Not heard of Terrace Syndrom. Most people have what are described as out of body experiences at some point in their lives but again they have a rational explanation due to part of the brain not working normally which messes up our sense of location. I understand they can even be triggered artificially nowadays with electrical stimulation of various parts of the brain and people can even be made to feel they are standing in front or behind themselves. There is nothing "magical" about this - certainly nothing that points to having an independent spirit; just temporarily messed up brain functioning.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


MaplePlatoon
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 27

19 Sep 2012, 2:15 pm

CloudLayer wrote:
there better be another life.


'Else, we're suing.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

19 Sep 2012, 2:18 pm

JNathanK wrote:
It depends on the era. When Genesis was written, the writers of the myth ascribed ti a flat earth view. In the late middle ages and renaissance, it wasn't so much the case though as has been assumed. Yes Colombus didn't discover the shape of the planet, but it still is one of the more primitive assumptions. There's even people today who assert the world is flat, though the number is way lower than it used to be thousands of years ago.


Genesis say nothing about a flat earth. The first person who claimed that the earth was flat was Lactantius, probably out of spite for the Greek philosophers who knew that the earth was spherical. Many priests actually considered his flat earth hypothesis as heresy.

The four corners of the earth, refers to the four cardinal directions.

The myth on how "everyone" believed that the earth was flat, stems from 19th century writers and historians who wanted to promote Columbus as something he was not. A few protestant scholars also used this to straw man catholics in the 17th century, by claiming that "this is what the catholics actually believe!".

Quote:
I never even claimed that people in the middle ages believed it was flat. i was just saying that this was a perception in the general past, which is true. Even for many of those who believed in a round earth, the antipodes was a very common view, which is sort of a flat earth view or semi-flat earth view by default, since its the idea that the earth is like a marble but affixed to the floor of the universe, rendering the southern hemisphere of the planet uninhabitable, since you'd obviously fall off past a certain point.


I'd like to see proof that this is what people actually believed. :P Everyone has heard the stories, but they're exaggerated to paint a picture of the people of the Middle Ages as uncivilized. I think it's a misconception similar to the myth on how Columbus discovered what is now the US, while he never really got further than the Bahamas.

Quote:
I see this fear of eternal hell or eternal death as a modern antipodes. There's a general acknowledgement of the cyclical nature of time, but still an irrational fear that after we venture out too far into the unknown of the bardo, that we'll fall into an endless abyss. I think we are the endless abyss itself and that consciousness and the universe organizes itself into the present form we find ourselves just like how waves form on an ocean. I really don't think this is anything all that unusual, but maybe the unusual feeling of the experience is an intrinsic apart of it all.


Fear of death implies no more than abstract thinking. Both the Torah, the Bible and the Qur'an say very little about Hell; the former almost avoids the subject of the afterlife altogether.



TheBicyclingGuitarist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,332

19 Sep 2012, 2:35 pm

Um, no Kurgan. The writers of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, leave many clues throughout the whole Bible that they believed in a flat-earth cosmology. Check out the web site of The Flat-Earth Bible to see why I make this claim.

There's nothing wrong with that by the way. A mythology is written by and for people of a particular culture and uses the terms and worldview of the people of that culture to get its points across. Archaeological evidence makes it pretty clear that the peoples of the ancient Near East had a flat-earth cosmology, and the Hebrews incorporated that into their mythology that was later appropriated and in some ways re-interpreted by Christians.

If we were to create a new religion, it would be in accordance with the findings of modern science. The thing about Christianity is that the people who wrote it only knew the science of 2000 B.C. instead of the science of 2000 A.D. That doesn't mean that the lessons of the Bible aren't still true. Some of the details of the stories used to communicate those lessons are out of touch with reality though. We know a bit more about the physical universe than the people did who wrote the Bible. Even if they were inspired by God to tell and write these stories, they could only use the words and ideas available to them from their culture in order to express them.


_________________
"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008


Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

19 Sep 2012, 3:30 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
Um, no Kurgan. The writers of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, leave many clues throughout the whole Bible that they believed in a flat-earth cosmology. Check out the web site of The Flat-Earth Bible to see why I make this claim.

Quote:
There's nothing wrong with that by the way. A mythology is written by and for people of a particular culture and uses the terms and worldview of the people of that culture to get its points across. Archaeological evidence makes it pretty clear that the peoples of the ancient Near East had a flat-earth cosmology, and the Hebrews incorporated that into their mythology that was later appropriated and in some ways re-interpreted by Christians.


Peasants of the middle east believed that the earth was located between a heaven and a hell, as well as flat. There are very few scholars from after the 5th century BC who actually describe it as flat. The book of Job and the book of Isaiah actually describes the shape as spherical.

While the common man in Ancient Egypt believed that the earth was flat, there are theories about Egyptian astronomers knowing that the earth was spherical before 1400 BC.

Quote:
Some of the details of the stories used to communicate those lessons are out of touch with reality though. We know a bit more about the physical universe than the people did who wrote the Bible.


True.

Quote:
Even if they were inspired by God to tell and write these stories, they could only use the words and ideas available to them from their culture in order to express them.


Good point.



TheBicyclingGuitarist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,332

19 Sep 2012, 3:38 pm

Kurgan wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
Even if they were inspired by God to tell and write these stories, they could only use the words and ideas available to them from their culture in order to express them.


Good point.


thank you! :D

I'm glad that point makes sense to you. Some people think that God didn't inspire the Bible so much as dictate it. The difference would be of course that then omniscience would be expressing divine knowledge with perfect details and of course would be inerrant. I (and many others) though think that receiving divine inspiration is something different than receiving dictation. Oh well! Those dang humans!

btw, I must give credit to the 20th century philosopher and "spiritual entertainer" Alan Watts for these ideas. He probably wasn't the first person to come up with these thoughts either, but he's the one I heard them from.


_________________
"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008


Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

19 Sep 2012, 3:56 pm

Most of my life I have been a tough materialist and assumed its one life and thats that. But lately I have been entertaining weird ideas.

What you describe about sleep paralysis is interesting because it does seem like you are aware but not physically connected so if a spirit exists it may be like that but we are no longer tied to a body.

I would like to think there is something but I don't know where to start when thinking what that may be. So its always been easiest to say "there is nothing." But the fact is that there is something now and I am experiencing it, so why would there not be anything to experience after this life? It makes me think that there will be something sometimes but I will have little control over what it is.

I think a lot about time with this question. As you get older your sense of time changes, times seems to run faster, you have a greater awareness of timescales. It makes me wonder if old people just before they die have a sudden awareness of all time in our universe, and then suddenly they are gone and have to start over in some other universe from square one.

But on the other hand, if its nothing then that doesn't matter either because I will not know and neither will anyone else.



Rudywalsh
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 347
Location: Spain (Born uk)

19 Sep 2012, 4:34 pm

People who are bipolar do not have two spirits!

I didn’t say people with bi-polar had two spirits. I said the human condition has a conscience, and our mind the spirit has a conscience, two separate beings.
Why I referred to bi-polar as an example is because I have a few friends with the condition. It seems to change from one being into another, night and day.
If it’s to do with the mind, why does everything come down to neurons, it seems to be the new escape goat for all matters of the mind. Yes we can delve into our biological make up and put the pieces together that make up the brain, but that still doesn’t explain where a conscience comes from, or why a drunken person who has blacked out, somehow finds his way home safely with no recollection of the journey home at all.

When I have an out of body experience, it comes in different forms, different ways, either a vision accompanied by sleep paralyzes, then my spirit comes out.
I have intense feelings in my arms legs and chest, then an out of body experience might take place when I’m lying down.

I was born with high functioning autism, my mind speeds up and I can’t stop expressing what’s on my mind.
When I’m stressed my mind goes to the other end of the spectrum, it slows down. It becomes so bad I can’t talk anymore. When this happens and I lie down, I can have what they call a Bi-locational out of body experience; I’m literally in two places at the same time, aware of everything. This takes place before my head hits the pillow.

Yes we know that a chemical imbalance in our brain causes depression, the little brother to bi-polar, but that still doesn’t explain the extreme character change in people who live with the condition bi-polar.

My mind goes from one end of the spectrum to the other, this is quite unique so I have been told.

How does a drunken person find their way home if they have blacked out? If our animal conscience fails (We are animals) then our mind the spirit takes over. How, because it holds our senses, senses we have yet to understand. One of our senses the mind our spirit controls is a sense of direction, call it inner guidance if you want.

Do we think about every step we make, everywhere we go? Do we always pay attention to where we are going? No we don’t. Whilst we are walking along pondering with our thoughts, something else guides us, a sense of direction.

What about intuition, neurons again I suppose.

Nobody knows what causes bi-polar, it’s the same with autism. The truth is we don’t have a clue how the mind really works.