What is more acceptable to 'heteronormative people'?

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There is a problem that MtFs often go to extremes to embody the feminine stereotypes that radical feminists fight against. They attribute this to the wrong source, however. MtFs do all that preening sh** because they are under pressure to do so in order to pass, not because they are part of the patriarchal conspiracy.

I wonder how that statement would fare in the LGBT Discussion thread...

I admit it was too general; not all MtFs (or even most) try to do hyperfemininity. The ones that do, stand out, however - so they are the target of radical feminist scorn. I mean, some people probably do hyperfemininity because they just want to, but that mystifies me. I usually just see it as a social pressure rather than a thing that occurs on its own. I'm talking crippling shoes, restrictive clothing, constant use of cosmetics and fake submissive behaviour here. If you say that women naturally make sacrifices in terms of time, health and sanity in order to increase their attractiveness and this is something hardwired into them - I'm talking actually doing things like maiming your own feet and putting harsh chemicals on your skin or hair. I don't think those behaviours are hardwired.

The stereotype of an MtF is that they do all these things, and whilst all stereotypes are inaccurate and harmful there is a grain of truth in them. I don't think MtFs do it because they are misogynistic (which is what rad fems think), I think they do it because society is misogynistic. Some of them seem to think being female depends on doing those things, or they think that that's what society expects of them.

Most of transgender people's problems come not from radical feminists, but from the gender norms of patriarchal society. which is what leads to their isolation and violent attacks that are made upon them. I do think they have every reason to be as concerned about patriarchy as I am.

That's funny. *My* initial guess would be that the problems of transgender individuals are caused by the fact that their biological gender does not match their psychological gender... which my previously posted studies of brain structure document...

That is also the conclusion I arrive at after going through the threads on transsexualism in the LGBT Discussion thread. But apparently your expertise in the field is superior to those who are actually transgender, have a formal diagnosis, and have transitioned.

The gender norms of patriarchal society, on the other hand, seem unconvincing to me, however. Perhaps this is due to the complete lack of evidence?

Being homosexual, or being transsexual? I ask this because I have no idea (I'm not straight).

I'm a radical feminist myself, but I don't know how accurate the claim is that other rad fems make. They claim that trans is more acceptable to the general population or 'heteronormative people', hence the whole phenomenon of parents giving hormones to their young children who exhibit gender dysphoria. The argument runs that it's feared that those children who are not gender-conforming will grow up to be homosexual or otherwise queer, and parents fear that more than the idea that their child has a medical condition that can be 'treated' by early transition. They argue that what homophobes really object to about about homosexuality isn't so much the gay sex part of it, but the perceived or actual gender nonconformance. Medicalising this behaviour as 'trans' makes it easier to deal with.

Now, I'm not saying I buy this argument. I'm very sceptical of it because of what the trans people I've known have said. I differ from other radical feminists in that I believe trans is seriously 'for real' and not, in itself, a plot from the patriarchy. Violence and discrimination against trans people is just as shocking as it is againt cis homosexuals. You can also be gay and trans.

However, I made this poll because I honestly don't know how the majority of heterosexuals see this issue. I realise that most people who are going to reply don't have homophobic or transphobic opinions, but what do you think are the thoughts of those who do? What would be harder to deal with if you were a parent: a homosexual child or a trans one? I suspect that you would accept the child in both circumstances, but there has to be a bit of discomfort in adjusting to either situation. I personally would find it more 'comfortable' (sorry about that wording) if my child was homosexual, but I think that's because I am bisexual myself. I don't know if I would see it differently if I was totally hetero.

I also realise that the concept of 'heteronormative people' is horribly vague because everyone is an individual with their own opinion and not every person who is heteronormative sometimes is heteronormative all the time.

You do have societies in this world where homosexuals are put to death, or otherwise persecuted, but they have a cultural place for their own version of 'trans' (even if it's not equivalent to the Western medicalised version). That isn't to say that the people in that 'trans' cultural niche are seen as equals in all cases. So I think, maybe on a global scale, the rad fem argument may have a grain of truth in it, but I don't see trans and gay rights as antagonistic aims as a result.

Also, not specifically related to how 'accepted' it is, I think being trans is harder to deal with 'personally' than being gay. There's a bigger community there for you and there are more role models.