Feeling disconnected and out-of-sync with people

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feenie
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26 Nov 2012, 7:44 pm

TL;DR-ish. I just went on a date a couple days ago with a girl I met on OkCupid. And came out of that date feeling as if I'm on a totally different planet as usual. This whole dating process is like navigating through a labyrinth for me. She's a pretty girl (though not quite my physical type. I like sweet, girl-next-door bubbly brunettes with eyes and smiles that light up the soul. Girl-next-door, sweet redheads will work too. I tend to not be into blondes all that much). And she seems to be the extroverted, party-going type. I liked the fact that she was more than willing to talk a lot. Less awkward silences that way. My concern though is that it feels like with every date, I feel lost. Trying to figure out what I'm looking for and knowing how to navigate my way through the labyrinth to get there. At the end of the date, she gave me a hug. I didn't go for a kiss because it just didn't "feel right". A kiss would have felt forced. But it's like this with every date for me. I just don't connect and have that spark with people. And the sexual tension doesn't build up either (though apparently there isn't supposed to be sexual tension in a casual coffee first date). It's easy to write it off as there being no potential with her. But it's like this with every girl! lol. I'm an alien. And the thing I notice is that with dates, I find myself asking more questions than I usually do when socializing with people. Because quite frankly, I really don't care to ask my friends'/acquaintances' about their lives. Whenever I feel the urge to socialize, it is a one-sided desire. I want to talk about what I want to talk about. With dates, however, I know instinctively that I shouldn't just talk about myself or talk about subjects that I want to talk about. I have to be mindful, considerate and inclusive. And the only reason why I bother to put in the effort is because I hold onto this hope that a long-term relationship or to a lesser extent, friend with benefits, is going to bring me happiness.

I have little relationship experience. A lot of girls have said that I'm cute. But I've barely made approaches. And when I have or they have, I usually messed them up somehow. lol. I had an online relationship with this girl in my high school years and we met up. When we met online, we started flirting with each other and somehow I guess we built rapport and we "fell in love" while chatting online. But it was what was likely an immature teenage love kind of deal. Like Romeo and Juliet. She was my first love, kiss and sexual experience. When I first attempted to have sex, I couldn't get it up. I knew something was "different" about me. As if I was some sort of alien. It wasn't until years later where I considered whether this could be an autistic spectrum-related issue. I've heard this issue isn't uncommon among men on the spectrum. At the time I just chalked it up to nerves. When she broke up with me (she said it was because it was a long-distance relationship. She lived 85 km away from me and I didn't own a car. I had to Greyhound it back then), I felt devastated. I miss the feeling of holding the woman I "love" close in my arms, showering her with kisses, lying with her naked in bed overnight, telling her I love her and hearing her tell me that she loves me. Her and I were so different though. She was an extroverted party girl (part of me liked the fact that she was extroverted, because this made it easier for us to have conversations) and I was overwhelmed with having to socialize around her friends and what not. And she wanted to go out and do stuff but I just wanted to stay in and spend time together away from the world cuddling, watching movies, whatever.

Then fast forward 8 years later I hooked up with a girl I met on a dating site that I wasn't even attracted to because I was desperate. She was obese and unattractive facially. I actually ordered generic Cialis from an online pharmacy and popped a pill beforehand (this girl came on so strong that I was confident that it would lead to sex on the first date). We had sex on the first date. And we had went on a few more dates and had sex a few more times. I was able to perform. But not consistently. I'd have an erection, then lose it, get it again, lose it, etc. Especially when you factor in the condom use. This happened whether or not I used the Cialis. The generic Cialis seemed to help to an extent. But I think this was a placebo effect. And I absolutely could not cum. One time I managed to stay hard for 30+ mins straight without the Cialis and couldn't come anywhere close to cumming. Then after her, I started seeing escorts (about six of them. I saw the last one five times). I had erectile inconsistencies with them too (alternating between rock hard and soft, sometimes not getting hard at all. I went at it for 30+ minutes straight with this one hot escort and she praised my stamina (lol). But then when we took a break and then she tried performing orally on me after, I couldn't get hard again. And ultimately I couldn't cum with any of them even though these girls are pros who know what they are doing. I saw my doctor about the erectile and delayed ejaculation issues and she's largely useless. She gave me a referral to an endocrinologist. But I'm starting to suspect that my weirdness and general disconnect with humanity is the real reason behind why I have these sexual issues (years of being accustomed to masturbation doesn't help either). When I fantasize or watch porn while masturbating, I can get hard and finish just fine. The fleshlight (I got it thinking it would train my body to prefer vagina over my hand) works too but it's too much hassle.

I also had an online relationship with a single mom of 2 (she is a year younger than me. I'm 27, she's 26) whom I met off a social anxiety site. I don't know how it happened but we were instant messaging and the stars aligned. She was extroverted and chatty too. She was so intense too. Then she started flirting with me and I was flirting with her and I started getting all sexual with my comments and everything and she did too. The tension built up very strongly. Then we started camming. By day 3, she was sharing some deep dark secrets about her past. She was abused by her kids' father, she was raped at 17 by 2 guys and also by her kids' father. She has Borderline Personality Disorder. I felt really close to her because she was sharing all this stuff with me. She told me that she started developing feelings for me and I was falling for her too. I have a White Knight Complex, sue me. We talked on the phone too. For the first week or so things were going great. She made me feel ALIVE and happy. But then things started going downhill when she was making up excuses to avoid meeting up. About a month and a half in of chatting, she told me that she loved me. And while I never told her that I loved her back, I was definitely bit by the love bug neurobiologically at least. But I grew frustrated because she'd make excuse after excuse to not meet with me.

Fastforward to 6 and a half months after meeting her online and I find out that her "ex" (kids' father) is actually not her ex. He was her boyfriend the entire time. And the first kid is from a previous father. And the bf was abusive towards her. But she wouldn't leave the as*hole. Apparently her and her bf had a falling out a month after that and she was telling me that she was going to leave her bf then go to University in my city (she lives in the boonies, I'm in the Toronto area) and be with me. She never left the as*hole. After giving up on her, she contacted me 7 months later and told me that her bf is "reformed" now. He's a loving bf and father. They bought a house together. She stayed with a wife-beater and wife-rapist. I can't understand that.

So yeah I've fallen "in love" before. But the first relationship started online and then transitioned offline. Only for me to discover that it was a difficult transition due to our lifestyle clashes and my sexual issues. And the second was completely online-based. And she was mentally unstable. A cute girl fed my "love fantasy" and my White Knight Complex. There was no real stable foundation there. So yeah, I'm "lost". I don't know what I'm looking for. I want to love and be loved again. But I need to arrive at this sort of thing in a "healthy" way. It seems like in the past I was in love with the idea of being in love and not with the actual girls. I need to discover what a real healthy love is. What it looks like. How to recognize it. How to find it. Whether I'm actually capable of it.

The way I see it, if I don't even care to listen to my friends and family members talk about what's going on in their lives, I question whether I'm able to even truly be in love with a woman. I think it's more about falling in love with the idea of being in love. Wanting what I see in fictional love stories. Wanting that "high", to feel the butterflies, to feel "alive". What's my deal? Am I even capable of love? Do I just chase a fantasy? If I'm too much of a selfish prick to love someone, how do I train myself to genuinely not want to be a selfish prick? I find myself doing favours for people out of obligation, not because I actually want to. I hate listening to my friends and family talk about their lives for one. I am more willing to do favours for girls and listen to girls only because a couple girls in the past bit me with the love bug and it felt really amazing and I'm chasing after the next hit. But that's not what love is about right?



Last edited by feenie on 26 Nov 2012, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JanuaryMan
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26 Nov 2012, 7:51 pm

I'll agree that you are chasing a dream and perhaps branching love and sex into 2 separate entities which is why you might be having great sex some times and performance issues at other times.
The thing is you will not develop feelings without at least some compassion for others. Try and involve yourself in people's lives, help them out for no reward or merit, talk to more people, say yes to those things you usually say no to and see if that builds your connection with others. It will also bolster your chances of meeting a girl you genuinely do love rather than "want to love" in the way that it happens in the movies as not only will you meet more people you will learn about how they work, too.



feenie
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26 Nov 2012, 8:42 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:
I'll agree that you are chasing a dream and perhaps branching love and sex into 2 separate entities which is why you might be having great sex some times and performance issues at other times.
The thing is you will not develop feelings without at least some compassion for others. Try and involve yourself in people's lives, help them out for no reward or merit, talk to more people, say yes to those things you usually say no to and see if that builds your connection with others. It will also bolster your chances of meeting a girl you genuinely do love rather than "want to love" in the way that it happens in the movies as not only will you meet more people you will learn about how they work, too.
I have forced myself to be more social within the last year (it was my 2012 new year's resolution). I used to be a total loner from 19-25 and in high school I was social in classes but rarely went out with friends. The last year is when I've made the most drastic change in my lifestyle. Including going out on dates. I can probably count on only one hand the number of weeks where I didn't go out with friends at least once a week. I'm definitely a selfish friend though. I know that Aspies struggle with two-way conversation and have the tendency towards one-way conversation. But is it also typical of Aspies to actually not care to make things two-way? To actually not care about what's going on in the lives of others? That's definitely an issue I have. And if this is a common issue with Aspies, I take it that it can be overcome? That Aspies can grow to actually have genuine two-way interest in conversations and actually care about what goes on in the lives of others and not just fake it with some social skills training. This aspect of my personality has made me wonder if I'm schizoid. But I'm not indifferent enough to be a schizoid.

And I guess I've done a decent enough job "faking it" that the guys don't notice (girls are amazing at reading people though. They can tell when you are not feeling it and forcing yourself). However one of my guy friends is definitely aware that I'm a bad listener (he hasn't said anything though but I can tell when he says things like "alright, I'll let you go" on the phone). And it's an especially bad thing because I have confided in him about my own stuff before. But when he talks about himself, I don't put in the same effort and interest he puts in with me. It's an as*hole thing to do. I wish I wasn't like that. I prefer not to waste my time on listening to other people talk about their day. And prefer to devote that time to my hobbies and introspection. But I'm probably losing out on very rich experiences being so self-absorbed. I would hope so anyway since I already know what solitude is like and I'd like to think there is more joy out there than just absorbing myself in my hobbies and living inside my own head. At this point I feel like it's impossible for me to ever have anything close to a healthy long-term relationship and it may not even be something I actually want (since I've chased after an idealized form of it. I might find that the reality of a long-term relationship isn't quite for me. But I don't have enough experience to really tell. I just know that every date is like a "WTF moment" to me. So I figure it must be that I don't really want a relationship other than some fairy tale love fantasy. In a way I feel like I'm almost using my dates because they want a guy who is going to make them happy. Meanwhile I'm just trying to figure stuff out and going on a journey of self-exploration.)



Last edited by feenie on 26 Nov 2012, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JanuaryMan
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26 Nov 2012, 8:46 pm

Well don't be too hard on yourself about dating :) how are you supposed to know what you want without dating first? What you think you want might not be so appealing when you finally get it or see it with your own eyes. Focus more on bonding with others. Not just hanging out and talking with them but actually relating to them. Maybe you should try and make friends that have similar opinions and hobbies to you. For years I struggled to fit in with even the friends I already had because I was too childish in my hobbies and they liked different bands, sports etc. and my brain refused to take it in. Start off by making friends you can relate to almost entirely and not only might you be prepared to listen to them but be more prepared to take an interest in what they are doing with their lives. The same can be said for forming intimate relationships.



biostructure
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26 Nov 2012, 11:08 pm

JanuaryMan has a point, but overcoming it is much easier said than done. For aspies (especially male--for some reason many female aspies seem escape this) reciprocity is exactly at the center of the difficult part. We want a dream, and we want the "high" of discovering another person intimately, the passion of the first kiss, the sense of accomplishment of pleasing the other person, etc. In other words, we approach relationships like they're another hobby, because that's the only way we know how to approach things.

Add to this the fact that socially and emotionally we may be many years younger than we are chronologically, so people our age don't like the same things (activities, energy level, possibly music) we do. This means that not only do we have difficulty empathizing even with those on our "level", fewer and fewer people around us actually ARE on that level. Back in high school I actually felt I had a chance, the cute girls liked me but I was in no hurry to pursue. But as time goes on, like for you, I can only meet women who I find physically unattractive, who are boring, even who have screwed-up lives etc. I wish I could find many more people at my stage of social development, so I'd have more in common, but finding women like this is surprisingly difficult.



feenie
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27 Nov 2012, 7:37 am

I've continued texting with the girl after the date. She even initiated text conversation with me the day after the day. Then I saw on OkCupid that she added a new picture to her profile. I understand that playing the field is common but I can't help but take it personally and think that she has lost interest after that date. She was definitely eager before the date. I have to be fair to myself though. Like it's not like I felt any sort of spark or whatever either. And even though she's pretty, she's not my physical type. But my ego can't help but think, "gosh darn it, I'm a cute guy, lots of girls have always told me that. But they usually lose interest after the date stage." Then it becomes about ego rather than the real purpose of dating: connecting/bonding with a person. Even if it's a friend with benefits, there has to be some sort of bonding. That's why they're called a friend. Sex with someone that you don't know very well is actually pretty awkward. And the more escorts I sleep with, the more that I kinda confirm that I'm not really a casual sex kind of guy. Or at the very least I would need to develop some sort of rapport and comfort level with a girl to sleep with her. It's more than just about physical attraction. It's just a case of another girl showing interest in me and me hoping that she'll like me. It becomes all about me (the ego) and not about the girl.

As for being young mentally and physically chronologically, I often feel like that yes. The girl I went on a date with is 22. And I find that dating younger women is more to my speed. This girl has actually never been in a relationship. But has sexual experience (kind of in my boat except I have a bit more relationship experience than she does. Except she hasn't had to pay for any of her sexual encounters. To be fair though, I turned down free sex from an unattractive, obese woman. And if I kept my standards low and put in the effort, I would have continued to get laid. But why should I do that when for $200-240/h, I can have sex with a woman that I'm really attracted to? Aside from the fact that it's impossible for me to cum from sex, the best sex I had was with a hot escort who provided the "girlfriend experience" (I can't see an escort who doesn't kiss. I can't get into it mentally if I'm not allowed to kiss an escort). No one has to know that I pay for sex. People may think that I'm a virgin based simply on how socially awkward I am anyway (one girl even asked me if I was a virgin last year. lol). The whole "stranger sex" aspect of escorts makes it awkward for me though.

This whole process is annoying. And whenever a guy turns to others for advice, he gets all of this PUA advice that teaches guys that you have to be someone else and try to "game" a woman into bed with you. Or you have these dating coaches that also teach you that you can't be yourself. The whole point is not to get a girlfriend or to get laid. The point is to find someone that will make me happy. Whether it be a long-term or short-term thing. When I feel like I have to be someone else, it's like putting in another shift at work. I would like to be more confident and have higher self-esteem in general in my life (confidence makes it easier to cope with the stressors of life) and learn how to genuinely want to reciprocate with other people and be less one-way in my interactions with others. But I don't want to change who I am at the core. I want someone who I actually like beyond their vagina or what they could do for me socially ("yay I have a girlfriend, I'm no longer a loser"). And I want someone that likes me for me. And not some fake character that PUA and dating gurus tell you to be.



feenie
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29 Nov 2012, 6:28 pm

We have a second date! I asked her if she'd like to have a second date on the weekend. She said that she's busy on the weekend but how about next week Tuesday? I said that's fine. Said that I can only do it in the evening (she's a University student and I work a standard M-F 9-5). She's fine with that. I expressed a concern as to whether it would be ok in the evening since I know she has a visual impairment and it's tedious for her to drive at night (she had post-poned the first date for the afternoon the day after because of this). She said that it's only a bother when it's raining or snowing. Then she suggested we go to this restaurant near her apartment but she was concerned this would be too far for me. I said that it's not an issue. It would be worth the drive. ;) (I figured I might as well get some flirting in. I didn't on the date because it just didn't feel right to). She replied. "Haha k. :)"

Based on her OkCupid match answers, I wonder if her inviting me to a restaurant near her apartment means that she's planning on things getting sexual on the second date. She's never been in a relationship but yet she answered on OkCupid that she has an above average sex drive and loves oral sex. So she's been hooking up with guys but not getting into relationships with them. And she answered that she's not looking to settle down anytime soon (22 and University student). And she's said that I'm cute. lol.

A part of me would want to sleep with her if the sexual tension was there (I can only see it developing if we went to her place. I find it hard to believe how people can even kiss after a simple coffee or bar/restaurant date. There needs to be some physical closeness. I need to be "warmed up" to be in the mood to kiss a girl). But a part of me would also be scared beyond belief because of my so-called "performance issues". Particularly when girls have used them against me in the past (my ex referred to me as "Viagara Boy" to her cousin. The girl I hooked up mocked my tendency to get soft during sex while drunk dialing me because she was pissed that I didn't love her. She threatened to kill herself while drunkenly saying "because you don't love meeee!!". Story of my life.) And an escort (worst escort ever, total b***h) once said, "what the f**k is wrong with you?" when I couldn't get it up (she was a total b***h to me and I was turned off by her prissy, "I think I'm the s**t" duck-faced airhead girl attitude. But I couldn't get a refund so it was too late). I don't know if this is an issue that is common with Aspies but sex is underwhelming, awkward and uncomfortable for me. Sometimes sex is good (though I've never been able to cum from sex unfortunately) and I'll go at it for like 30+ minutes no problem. But a lot of the time, I'll lose it or not even get it up at all. It's not like masturbating at home while fantasizing or watching porn.

This current girl seems nice though. She doesn't seem like a b***h like some of the other girls I've encountered in my life.



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29 Nov 2012, 7:33 pm

@the title: how i feel a lot of the times

wish i had something to offer but nice thread anyways...


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