Asperger's can't explain Newtown school shooting

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Destidude
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18 Dec 2012, 8:01 am

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/natio ... story.html

Calgary Herald wrote:
“The evidence connecting Asperger’s to crimes like this is essentially zero,” said Canadian psychologist Dr. Frank Farley, a professor of psychology at Temple University in Philadelphia.

While Asperger’s may have played a role, “I don’t think there’s any way one could argue that it was a key ingredient” in the psychology that drove Lanza to allegedly gun down 20 children and seven adults.

“Asperger’s as a label or a disorder can never explain what happened in Connecticut on Friday,” added Dr. Kevin Stoddart, an adjunct professor at the University of Toronto and director of the Redpath Centre, a private agency that treats youths and adults with Asperger’s syndrome.



henry14488
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18 Dec 2012, 11:32 am

horror happens often, it's just when aspies do it, the media puts up propaganda to make them want to kill us



LabPet
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18 Dec 2012, 12:00 pm

I'm so very disappointed that this tragedy has been linked to Aspergers. Like Dr. Farley has so astutely written, AS does not equate to violent mass murderer.

Ironically, very recently, but before this tragic school shooting, there was a post about AS and whether we are (latent) mass murderers. Firstly, I am saddened that some Aspies, maybe especially those who are really young, feel they are 'bad' inside, as if they are potential killers. Of course you are not - in fact, the contrary.

Anyway, what I wrote in that post still stands true: those very few deeply disturbed individuals (AS and NTs both) who commit such a heinous act are truly beyond societal bounds. Further, they are beyond diagnostic boundaries as well. That is, any 'label' is essentially a moot point. Such a miserable killer is 'on the fringe' of our society and, in my opinion, eludes our 'normal' understanding of any given rules of assessing one's psychological state of being.

For an analogy: Vincent Van Gogh (certainly not a killer! and that's not my point here) was undoubtedly a disturbed individual. Van Gogh's art demonstrates his astounding talent as well. I think we can all agree he was a 'misunderstood' and sensitive individual who suffered in life. Now, I've read lots of compelling evidence that Vincent was likely 'on the spectrum.' And I agree - he may have been. But, regardless of autism, Vincent displayed deeply disturbed behaviour that was far and away beyond the scope of autism. Indeed, he experienced psychotic breaks - that's not autism. By consensus, those who've researched Vincent's tragic life know that he was (at least) depressed and had plenty of other problems (e.g. putatively bipolar, etc.). So, by extension, those who are violent killers, such as the Newtown school shooter, may be on the spectrum but that was not the mitigating factor. Alternatively, their deeply disturbed pathology, autonomous of autism, drove them to take the lives of those innocent victims. I am so sorry we've been sort-of 'linked' to this sickening tragedy. In all honesty, from my experience, and from most of those I know on the Wrong Planet, Aspies demonstrate a kindhearted innocence, a sweetness, that eludes most of the typical populace.

And yes, like henry14488 just posted, the media is making a mockery of this. Isn't that the tragedy? To be misunderstood?


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ruveyn
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18 Dec 2012, 12:04 pm

LabPet wrote:
I

Ironically, very recently, but before this tragic school shooting, there was a post about AS and whether we are (latent) mass murderers. Firstly, I am saddened that some Aspies, maybe especially those who are really young, feel they are 'bad' inside, as if they are potential killers. Of course you are not - in fact, the contrary.



All humans are latent or potential mass murderers. Look at what happened to Germany. The population went along with one of the most horrendous crimes in modern history. Were they always that way? I doubt it. There was a gemuetlicheit Germany filled with schnitzel, und beir und laughter. That turned into a Germany where just about everyone know murder on a grand scale was happening and no one said a word or hardly any one.

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BlueAbyss
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18 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm

LabPet wrote:
I'm so very disappointed that this tragedy has been linked to Aspergers. Like Dr. Farley has so astutely written, AS does not equate to violent mass murderer.

Ironically, very recently, but before this tragic school shooting, there was a post about AS and whether we are (latent) mass murderers. Firstly, I am saddened that some Aspies, maybe especially those who are really young, feel they are 'bad' inside, as if they are potential killers. Of course you are not - in fact, the contrary.

Anyway, what I wrote in that post still stands true: those very few deeply disturbed individuals (AS and NTs both) who commit such a heinous act are truly beyond societal bounds. Further, they are beyond diagnostic boundaries as well. That is, any 'label' is essentially a moot point. Such a miserable killer is 'on the fringe' of our society and, in my opinion, eludes our 'normal' understanding of any given rules of assessing one's psychological state of being.

For an analogy: Vincent Van Gogh (certainly not a killer! and that's not my point here) was undoubtedly a disturbed individual. Van Gogh's art demonstrates his astounding talent as well. I think we can all agree he was a 'misunderstood' and sensitive individual who suffered in life. Now, I've read lots of compelling evidence that Vincent was likely 'on the spectrum.' And I agree - he may have been. But, regardless of autism, Vincent displayed deeply disturbed behaviour that was far and away beyond the scope of autism. Indeed, he experienced psychotic breaks - that's not autism. By consensus, those who've researched Vincent's tragic life know that he was (at least) depressed and had plenty of other problems (e.g. putatively bipolar, etc.). So, by extension, those who are violent killers, such as the Newtown school shooter, may be on the spectrum but that was not the mitigating factor. Alternatively, their deeply disturbed pathology, autonomous of autism, drove them to take the lives of those innocent victims. I am so sorry we've been sort-of 'linked' to this sickening tragedy. In all honesty, from my experience, and from most of those I know on the Wrong Planet, Aspies demonstrate a kindhearted innocence, a sweetness, that eludes most of the typical populace.

And yes, like henry14488 just posted, the media is making a mockery of this. Isn't that the tragedy? To be misunderstood?
Beautifully said, and thanks to Dr. Farley from me as well.

Something that happened to me as a child was being told a lot that I was selfish and anti-social (I didn't not even know what AS was until I was over 50), and that was so hurtful, because I knew I wasn't that way, not in the way that was meant. I think that a lot of people with AS are very likely told the same things or worse as children. What you hear about yourself over and over again can start to feel true. In some people I think it can morph into actually being that and acting out in that way. (Just as sexually abused children sometimes become promiscuous later, believing themselves to be the guilty parties in their abuse.) So in that respect it is possible that someone could develop a lot of anger and twisted sense of self. But that's not AS, that's other people's misunderstanding of AS causing them to abuse (not deliberately perhaps, but still abuse) the person with AS. Abuse can lead in two opposite directions, to becoming an abuser or to becoming the opposite.

I think that behind every mass murderer there is a story. I don't think that story can be boiled down to a single diagnosis. (And we do not know that this person had AS.) But I think the story, if it can be known, can explain a lot. The trouble is that in a case like this we will very likely never know the story. The two main people in that story - the shooter and his mother - are now dead.

There is an incredible and despicable amount of unprofessional reporting going on, rather grisly in its attempt to sensationalize every aspect of this tragedy.



Ela
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18 Dec 2012, 2:49 pm

Hi :D I am new to WP. I have a teenage son who is an Aspie. My heart and prayers go out the the families of the victims of this tragic event! That the shooter has been said to have AS has affected many, including my son. Yesterday one of my youngest son's teacher, in an attempt to "educate" her students stated that people with Asperger's do not have emotions and are violent. It is very sad that an educator did not take the time to educate herself before spreading misinformation. My son who has a difficult time trusting other people enough to share with them that he has Asperger's was hurt to the core, and now is even more afraid of what his peers would think of him if they find out he is an Aspie... I am very proud of who my son is! He is a smart, funny, and compassionate young man! In my experience with children and adults with Asperger's I have found that they (contrary to what the teacher stated) are very sensitive, loving and compassionate. I just wish my son could see himself as I see him, talented, sweet and amazing in every way.

~Ela



BlueAbyss
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18 Dec 2012, 4:13 pm

Ela, I'm so sorry that happened to your son - and to his class, who are now all misinformed. I hope someone will take the teacher to task for such idiocy.



Nonperson
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18 Dec 2012, 5:23 pm

I'm sure being still more ostracized, abused, traumatized and said to have "no feelings" will make aspies much less likely to "snap" and do something crazy. :roll:



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18 Dec 2012, 5:40 pm

I am willing to bet the bigotry against people with Autism or Aspergers will increase dramatically as a result of the Conneticut shooting.


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japan
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18 Dec 2012, 6:48 pm

Ela wrote:
Hi :D I am new to WP. I have a teenage son who is an Aspie. My heart and prayers go out the the families of the victims of this tragic event! That the shooter has been said to have AS has affected many, including my son. Yesterday one of my youngest son's teacher, in an attempt to "educate" her students stated that people with Asperger's do not have emotions and are violent. It is very sad that an educator did not take the time to educate herself before spreading misinformation. My son who has a difficult time trusting other people enough to share with them that he has Asperger's was hurt to the core, and now is even more afraid of what his peers would think of him if they find out he is an Aspie... I am very proud of who my son is! He is a smart, funny, and compassionate young man! In my experience with children and adults with Asperger's I have found that they (contrary to what the teacher stated) are very sensitive, loving and compassionate. I just wish my son could see himself as I see him, talented, sweet and amazing in every way.

~Ela


Sorry to hear about what happened to your son. I really can't stand when people run their mouths about things they don't have any idea about.