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MisterCosgrove
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31 Dec 2012, 11:17 pm

A ha, so what I am trying to deal with here is being able to start lifting weights while being affected by hypotonia. I am very weak/skinny and want to start lifting and toning up. I am lifting very light at 5 lb to start out with. When I pick them up I cannot even maintain enough muscle control to practice form properly. My dumbbells are just two bars with large vinyl weights that go on each side. Do I overcome this? Does it happen after repetition without thinking about it the more I do it? Now, can I overcome this or work through it since it is a neurological brain thing I can't really control?

Examples:

When I attempted bench press on a flat (adjustable) bench, doing one arm at a time continuously until feeling tired, I felt
: like my back wasn't exactly situated right, but it was on the bench; my arms would swing a bit; I decided to spread my knees and legs outward at the end of the bench; I couldn't maintain consistent proper wrist and palm form; my movement/duration was unsteady and inconsistent; I had issues coordinating whatever else I was supposed to do like breathing and so on; am I analyzing too much?


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1000Knives
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31 Dec 2012, 11:36 pm

MisterCosgrove wrote:
A ha, so what I am trying to deal with here is being able to start lifting weights while being affected by hypotonia. I am very weak/skinny and want to start lifting and toning up. I am lifting very light at 5 lb to start out with. When I pick them up I cannot even maintain enough muscle control to practice form properly. My dumbbells are just two bars with large vinyl weights that go on each side. Do I overcome this? Does it happen after repetition without thinking about it the more I do it? Now, can I overcome this or work through it since it is a neurological brain thing I can't really control?

Examples:

When I attempted bench press on a flat (adjustable) bench, doing one arm at a time continuously until feeling tired, I felt
: like my back wasn't exactly situated right, but it was on the bench; my arms would swing a bit; I decided to spread my knees and legs outward at the end of the bench; I couldn't maintain consistent proper wrist and palm form; my movement/duration was unsteady and inconsistent; I had issues coordinating whatever else I was supposed to do like breathing and so on; am I analyzing too much?


Kurgan said something pretty wise about this. People with Aspergers have a harder time with like, bodybuilding isolation exercises for this reason. It's not even so much like, real "weakness" a lot of the time, it's just very poor control and coordination of the muscles. So doing like, an isolation exercise a lot of times will just suck, as your form will suck and you won't be "hitting" the muscle well at all, not so much due to actual "weakness" but just because your body has crap awareness of what muscles are supposed to do what. Can you like, move furniture well or something? Like for me, I'd suck in the gym and be better than my peers at a task like that. With a task like that, you don't have to think as much. It's my opinion, and some will disagree, but if you're gonna lift, stick with "big" exercises and then throw in isolation movements after you've mastered the "big" ones, squats, deadlifts, bench press (I personally don't like benching much, but some people do), overhead presses, etc. You can even do things like, farmers walks, where you just grab the biggest dumbells at the gym you can hold on to and just walk with them. Basically, with the "bigger" exercises, your body will "think" less, and yeah.

Also, honestly, with that setup there, little dumbells and vinyl weights, it's gonna be fairly hard to get strong. A barbell is a much easier tool. But I'd say make the sets as heavy as possible, and once it's heavy, you won't "think" about it, and you'll just move the weight off you because it's heavy. Go for like 5-10 reps per set, and you shouldn't need to do over like 40 reps per movement besides warming up. Also, dumbbell bench you should be doing both dumbbells at once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfZpWQNBQQ That's a fairly decent example of a dumbbell bench. It's not really rocket science, just yeah, there is an eliment of "not thinking" that needs to be done.



MisterCosgrove
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01 Jan 2013, 10:06 am

1000Knives wrote:

Kurgan said something pretty wise about this. People with Aspergers have a harder time with like, bodybuilding isolation exercises for this reason. It's not even so much like, real "weakness" a lot of the time, it's just very poor control and coordination of the muscles. So doing like, an isolation exercise a lot of times will just suck, as your form will suck and you won't be "hitting" the muscle well at all, not so much due to actual "weakness" but just because your body has crap awareness of what muscles are supposed to do what. Can you like, move furniture well or something? Like for me, I'd suck in the gym and be better than my peers at a task like that. With a task like that, you don't have to think as much. It's my opinion, and some will disagree, but if you're gonna lift, stick with "big" exercises and then throw in isolation movements after you've mastered the "big" ones, squats, deadlifts, bench press (I personally don't like benching much, but some people do), overhead presses, etc. You can even do things like, farmers walks, where you just grab the biggest dumbells at the gym you can hold on to and just walk with them. Basically, with the "bigger" exercises, your body will "think" less, and yeah.

Also, honestly, with that setup there, little dumbells and vinyl weights, it's gonna be fairly hard to get strong. A barbell is a much easier tool. But I'd say make the sets as heavy as possible, and once it's heavy, you won't "think" about it, and you'll just move the weight off you because it's heavy. Go for like 5-10 reps per set, and you shouldn't need to do over like 40 reps per movement besides warming up. Also, dumbbell bench you should be doing both dumbbells at once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfZpWQNBQQ That's a fairly decent example of a dumbbell bench. It's not really rocket science, just yeah, there is an eliment of "not thinking" that needs to be done.


But bench presses were actually where the problem was encountered. Also the dumbbells are my only option (long story okay).


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NOC3
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03 Jan 2013, 5:29 pm

Try getting into yoga or seeing a PT to help with your proprioception and body awareness before you try any more lifting. Connecting your movement with your breath is a crucial starting point, the biofeedback you get from a good instructor's prompts and adjustments will further connect your mind to your body.

The point of weightlifting is to do cellular damage that will rebuild itself stronger. If for whatever reason you do serious damage to greater tissue structures you are not doing yourself any favors.

Learn where your body is in space, then make yourself aware of your body's numerous strengths and limitations.

Based on your description your muscles and ligaments are weak but flexible. You probably have some muscle imbalances as well (everyone does to some degree). Having muscle imbalances will force joints into ROMs that are not ideal for their muscle groups. Flexibility is good but you need to know how to keep your joints properly aligned in order to fully exert the muscles connected to them. Having lots of muscle and strength tends to restrict flexibility and will force joints into a more restricted range of motion (ROM). Guys will more often have that problem but its just the other side of the coin. Strong but imbalanced muscles with restricted joint ROM are just as bad as weak overly flexible muscles with "too much" ROM in joints.

Start out with some stretchy thera-bands and PT exercises to become familiar with the ROM in your joints, find where the joints are weakest. Rather than trying to strengthen weak joints, try to protect them by using perfect form and becoming familiar with the sensations you feel when the joints are just beginning to be challenged.



1000Knives
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03 Jan 2013, 6:26 pm

NOC3 wrote:
The point of weightlifting is to do cellular damage that will rebuild itself stronger. If for whatever reason you do serious damage to greater tissue structures you are not doing yourself any favors.


I see it differently. Most gains in strength are not actually from "muscles" but the central nervous system. And then also, the muscles themselves aren't totally relevant to the amount of strength the body has, the amount of strength the body will output is more based upon tendon and ligament strength, as they're your limiting points. This is how, for example, a 110lb woman can lift a car off a child. It's the mind that controls strength. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LpqPUWHH5k Those women are 48kg, but they can lift more than the average man with more muscle mass can, simply because they've trained their mind and body to work in unison with eachother. Basically hypertrophy doesn't equal strength.

Anyway, just make sure the dumbells go all the way down and all the way up. Breathe as much as you need to. Holding your breath isn't good, imo, but at the same time, you'll be able to lift more weight if you have your diaphragm fully out. You WANT to push your belly out, if you try to constrict your breathing and don't breathe deeply, you won't be able to lift as much weight. As far as your back goes, you can arch or not, it's more your choice. Some powerlifters arch a crazy amount, it will allow you to lift more weight, in general it's not great for you to do really extreme back arching if your back isn't healthy. But at the same time, you don't want to just have your back being limp either.

Basically, go on youtube, look up the exercise you wanna do, and try to copy the form and analyze what's going on the best you can. Read up how to do it, too. Then...do it. A friend helps, too, as a friend can analyze what you're doing and not doing. Don't go too ambitious for weight selection when you first try, but there's no need to stay with 5lb dumbells forever.

Lastly, "toning" is pretty much a myth. Your muscles can get stronger, or can achieve more hypertrophy. You can also lose bodyfat. Low bodyfat is what makes you look "toned" or "cut." If you have big muscles and low bodyfat, that's ideal. But lots of muscle mass doesn't mean you'll be "toned" nor does having a low bodyfat make you have lots of muscles. http://vikingstrength.com/wp-content/up ... 8570_n.jpg For example, both those guys have tons of muscle, they have the world records in the deadlift in powerlifting. They're also fat. http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_ ... /image.jpg That's the pop star Aaron Carter. He's like 130lbs or something. Very cut up, very low bodyfat, very "toned" but has significantly less muscle mass than said powerlifters above. Obviously these are extremes, but yeah. It's useful doing some lifting during weight loss, so your body knows not to lose muscular weight along with fat, but like, doing a gazillion reps of a weightlifting movement will only "tone" in as far that it'll become aerobic, you likely won't get much hypertrophy or strength increases simply because the body's not taxed enough. It's hormones that cause muscle gain for the most part. The amount of "pump" or burn is almost irrelevant. Look at marathon runners, I'm sure all their muscles ache after a race, but the activity just isn't conducive to building muscles. On the other hand, sprinters are quite jacked looking. Because (aside from weightlifting which most do) they apply max effort, and are training to apply even more max effort, thus the body has to adapt by making more muscles to apply more maximum effort.

Anyway, benching isn't really a "useful" movement anyway. It doesn't imitate any real life activities. Try overhead pressing and see if you like that more. You can just do it while standing.

EDIT:
That said, along the lines of what NOC3 said, regarding the hypotonia and poor motor control, if you go to a gym, go through the machines, do some reps, doesn't really matter the weight you use, probably go lower weight and higher reps to get a "pump" going, and then you can know what muscle does what. The machines have all the muscles used on them labeled, so you should do enough reps to feel a "pump" and identify what muscles are used whenever you do the exercise. Then you can know when you do stuff what muscles you're using and get an idea in your head. The reason I said basically "just lift heavy and don't get OCD about form" is because with Aspergers, it's sorta better that way, because you won't have to consciously "think" when lifting heavy, so it basically gets your brain out of the way, and lets your body do its thing. I mean injuries can happen and whatever, but a dumbbell bench isn't like, an Olympic snatch or a gymnastic movement. Just bring it down and bring it back up, you don't gotta make it more complicated.