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Drizzt
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14 Jan 2013, 1:13 pm

It's been really hard.

He thinks in pictures like Temple Grandin writes about but his are motion pictures. He has dyscalculia(dyslexia for math) so numbers are always in constant, random motion for him.

When we practice driving, I have no idea what he sees vs what I see. He asks me if he can go at an intersection and I'll say "you tell me what you think?" to which he usually replies, "I don't know."

He drives best with music he can whistle to also. When it was music he couldn't whistle to, his driving was mediocre. I popped on talk radio and he could hardly stay on the road. I asked what was wrong and he said he couldn't take all those words just coming at him.

Any advice? I'm afraid to set him off on his own.



momsparky
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14 Jan 2013, 2:44 pm

Can you use a driving simulator together for a while so that you can be sure you are both looking for the same things? Explain that the exercise has nothing to do with actually driving, but that you want to make sure you are communicating well before you are behind the wheel of a real car. (Here's one I found: http://www.ramtrucks.com/chrysler/games ... wise.html# )

There are also driving schools where the instructor has an override system; might be worth investing in provided they understand the issues.

(Took me for-freaking-ever to learn to drive - I failed my drivers' test FIVE times - but, eventually, I did learn and do drive.)



Drizzt
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14 Jan 2013, 2:48 pm

Thanks. I never thought of a simulator.



momsparky
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14 Jan 2013, 2:56 pm

Oh, and I drive best if I have the radio on SO FREAKING LOUD THAT IT NEARLY HURTS. It helps me focus, in that it gives me only one thing to screen out (needing to screen out things is both internal and external; music needs to be louder than the seven or eight conversations I am typically parsing through in my head) I do have to make sure it is loud enough for me (I drive with the windows up so as not to disturb the universe with my stero) but not so loud that I can't hear things like sirens and horns.

I wonder if the music/whistling is the same sort of thing for your son.



littlelily613
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14 Jan 2013, 3:37 pm

This probably isn't going to be too helpful, but just a bit from my own experience:

I was very difficult to teach how to drive. I meltdown easily, don't understand too many directions at once, have difficulty multi-tasking, etc. I definitely was trying my father's patience (and my Mom wouldn't even drive with me until I was experienced and fully licensed...I don't blame her lol...) Anyway, I did manage to pass my second road test (close to a decade separated them--but most of that time was spent without a learner's permit), but I only became a good driver when I was alone and with practice. I don't learn well with others teaching me, I learn well on my own. As soon as I was able to drive by myself, things got better, and now I like to think I am a good driver. I live in a small town, so I started out driving there. Once I was forced to go into the city daily for university, I finally became good at navigating the traffic and the streets there. Your son is visual as I am--once I drove enough, I am now able to visualize everything in my head, exactly how things link up, where I am supposed to go, and any alternative routes in case one is too jammed up or closed for some reason. I can see it in my head, and he might be able to too once he becomes more familiar with the area. My guess is that he will improve a lot once he is on his own...of course he has to pass the road test first, but if he can manage that, he'll do better. At least I did...


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DW_a_mom
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14 Jan 2013, 3:40 pm

Something I noticed early on after joining these forums is that a LOT of AS individuals have trouble driving. My son is about to get his permit, and him and I have been discussing that we expect this to be a long and slow process for him; I already know from seeing him on his bike how unaware he can be. I have long told him that he can expect to get his learner's permit by age, but most likely not his actual license; that could be years in the making. He is OK with that; he knows I too have issues with reaction speed, awareness, and distance judging; and understands what that translates to in a car; I've been giving a narrative on what I am doing when I drive with him in the car for the past year or so. I am glad that we've set up the expectations beforehand, or I could see not allowing him to take the driving test, or having him fail it, becoming a real issue.

Best I can think of is to stick to safe areas and add skills gradually. Let him experiment with things that might help him focus: some people with attention issues find that driving a manual transmission helps them stay on task. And so on. I have never gotten the impression that there is any one answer; each person has to feel their way through it for themselves. It is also possible that you and him may decide that some areas may never be comfortable for him to drive in; that should be OK; life can be molded around those sorts of limitations.


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demeus
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14 Jan 2013, 4:50 pm

One option you can do is have your son tell you what he is seeing while he is driving. This is what they do with those getting licenses for larger vehicles where there is less control with the instructor.



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14 Jan 2013, 5:12 pm

I can help with a couple of things:


Quote:
When we practice driving, I have no idea what he sees vs what I see. He asks me if he can go at an intersection and I'll say "you tell me what you think?" to which he usually replies, "I don't know."


If he's like me; he's not asking to reinforce a decision that he's already made. He's asking because he doesn't know what he should do. Asking him what he thinks is useless. Just tell him, and eventually he'll build a library of example situations that he can refer to to make his own judgement from.

Quote:
He drives best with music he can whistle to also. When it was music he couldn't whistle to, his driving was mediocre. I popped on talk radio and he could hardly stay on the road. I asked what was wrong and he said he couldn't take all those words just coming at him.


This one is easy: don't put talk radio on when he's driving.
Imagine people shouting in your ears and tapping you constantly on the back when you're driving: that's how distracting the talk radio is for him.


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DW_a_mom
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14 Jan 2013, 6:08 pm

Also, isn't "what do you think?" considered a vague question by many Aspies, the kind of question they often do not know how to answer?

I like the data base comment. That is what has to be done: building a data base of experiences.


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littlelily613
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14 Jan 2013, 6:54 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Also, isn't "what do you think?" considered a vague question by many Aspies, the kind of question they often do not know how to answer?


Yes! And one that might lead to a bit of panic when you are blocking traffic and trying to get into heavier traffic.


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chris5000
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14 Jan 2013, 10:13 pm

I waited till I was 18 to learn to drive, I was not ready at 16. maybe he should wait and try again down the road.



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15 Jan 2013, 12:50 am

One great tip I got from Young Drivers is to Plan your route, That entails knowing where your going to before leaving the driveway, what roads your going to be on to get there, knowing what lane to be on in advance, what road choices may be more friendly, all speedlimits(here its 40, 50 or 60 in town)etc.

I can have a tough time reading and navigating too, I do best on local roads I know and by knowing/planing my route I don't really have to read anything or think much. By far the best advise I got as driving on the fly isn't in most AS peoples best intrests in my opinion.

Part of why I failed my first learner permit exit test was that I had to take it in another city I did not know and got easily disoriented and confused. I also failed 2 witten tests and was 22 when I finally got my full permit, could drive alone since 18 though, love to crank up some classic rock when I drive, don't do well talking to passengers though. Driving time really isn't learning time for me, thats a good job for a parking lot. I wound not focus no much on the insterments to much either, I do better listening to the RPM and the shifts sometimes in addition to reading the guages, its about knowing your car and feeling it and driving by instinct. And my record is clean.



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15 Jan 2013, 5:10 am

I dont think, that a driving simulator helps much. Driving Simulator is easy and like an Computer game: Relaxing.

Reality are thousend of sounds, some belonging to the car and important, some belonging to traffic: Important, 1000 more belonging to everything else, unimportant....

Also streets dont match simulators. On simulator streets streets dont have thousend different broads, no oil spots, no water spots, no people making their house sale half on the street and so on...

From my oppinion: Practice, practice, practice...in reality. The more movements, you can do automatic without thinking the more ressources you have for watching your surrounding.

As long as you are still focused on driving at the right distance to the right street side and handling of the car itself, the less you can concentrate on your surroundings.

And dont give up. When i learned driving in driving school I even cried one time, because it was really, really too much for me the first days and you have to watch for everything, because your brain dont now until now whats important, and whats not, so you have to look and hear for everything.

The more you drive, the more experienced your brain becomes, so the handling of the car becomes intuitive. Also your brain becomes more and more experienced from deciding whats important while driving and whats not.

Whats really important: Do not push! For example; You should only drive over a crossing if you as driver have the feeling, that you are fully aware of everything that goes on at the crossing. Maybe that can be 15 seconds longer at the start, and maybe an NT-driving beginner can decide much faster, that he now has seen everything going on at the crossing, so he can drive through it now. Specially at the beginning, Asperger can need much more time, because the brain is not trained on filtering the important from the unimportant stuff, so they must concentrate on everything as driving starter while NT driver get at least some of the information already filtered.

So at the beginning I was a very slow driver and when i got my driving license, my father (driving trucks and busses) wanted to get me more experience, so whenever he wanted to drive somewhere or we drove as family, he let me drive. So he didnt comment anything, or talk to me or anything (if it was no emergency), he just sat beside me, and watching and only commented AFTER i was ready with driving. So technically I drove ok, i was just a bit slow and needed more experience, so my father cared that i had the chance to get the experience. The only thing he told me, that as long as I drive really slow, I shall drive at the right side from time to time, so the cars behind me can pass. ^^

First year I also couldnt drive with the radio on, so silent music on an empty highway was ok, but not more.

When driving or talking about traffic situations, i can only say from my oppinion, but you should avoid about talking of too much details. So the more i had experience with driving, the less I care for every detail and I only get the important one. So if I have a traffic situation there is no blond woman with pink cloths, no red limousine, and so on and so on... There is parking car, driving car, parking SUV, driving SUV, solid walker walking in the middle of the sidewalk, deflected walker tumbling aroung, child on mothers hand, child going on his own next to his mother, dog walking free, dog walking with short leash, dog walking with long leash... and so on. I know that NTs see much more from traffic then I do, but I need to focus on the important and the more driving experience I have, the more my brain does this on his own. So when I drive with my partner, and I see a child walking the sidewalk, jumping a little bit around or driving with a bicycle on the sideway, I see him directly, I drove slower, see to have a bit more distance form the right side, so that nothing happens if the child falls down... so I absolutely react to the important details of the situations without thinking...but if my partner asks me one second after passing the child if I also found the clothing of the child cute, I cant answer. So talking around with NTs while driving, dont help me much, because most time they talk about the "silver car" and so on. Which forces me to unfocus from the important things, look for all cars, driving around, filtering the ones that are silver, and then trying to find out which could be the one that fits in the situation....Sorry, but this is useless for me.

I am now 33 years old, and I only got in two accidents. So one car hit me while driving over a crossing, ignoring the red traffic light he had. (I had green.) and one minor parking damage I was responsible for, which would have been nothing if i hadnt got a damned trailor coupling on my car, and actually I am having since 6 years a job with outside service. I even managed to get some bills because of driving to fast in the last years. So i am not proud of that, but in earlier times I never had to spend attention if I am driving too fast, so it shows me that I am more and more used to driving.

So from my oppinion: Practice, practice, practice... and silence. ^^ Theres no need to tell someone, that he should be getting faster, because the one who is driving is responsible for driving only when HE himself feels its safe to drive and he will start driving faster on his own, the more practice he has. If there are real failures like misinterpreting traffic signs and so on, sure you should say that. But everything thats about getting more routine needs no talking, its just needs practice.



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15 Jan 2013, 10:57 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Also, isn't "what do you think?" considered a vague question by many Aspies, the kind of question they often do not know how to answer?

I like the data base comment. That is what has to be done: building a data base of experiences.


I feel that way too. The same with questions "how do you feel" or even "what do you want to eat/drink". It takes me a long time to come up with anything.
And when I was told to look to the left, I would just turn my head and sort of stare, they didn't specify what to look for and why. They should have said "check for cars who have right of way" or something like that.

Where I live we also have a theoretical exam you must pass. Like most people, I started taking lessons before doing the theoretical exam, but I noticed a big improvement after I passed the theoretical. I wasn't too sure about the rules of the road before that, so I was a very indicive driver because of it.



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15 Jan 2013, 5:45 pm

I've never been much for driving myself ;P


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18 Jan 2013, 2:50 am

Back when I was a kid, I got a game called "trafikspillet" (The traffic game), which contained several traffic problems both for kids (on a bike) and for adults (in a car). Some were simple, while others were more advanced (eg. roadworks). I used to play it a lot with my parents back then, and used the cards for practice later when I started taking my license. Try to see if you can get something similar and if it helps.

however much it pains me to say this, if nothing helps, he may never learn to drive, or it may be unwise to let him do so. Far from all situations in traffic can be scripted. What if he comes across roadworks, rush hour or an accident site? How will he react then? At least focus should be placed on these areas.
Another + would be to teach him to drive with a talking GPS. He WILL need it one day.