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Robdemanc
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16 Mar 2013, 9:48 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
He presented reasons for marijuana to be illegal in the USA. What are the reasons for marijuana being illegal outside the USA, where American pharmaceutical, cotton and paper companies have less leverage?


The UK has its own pharmaceutical companies.

Holland is the best example of how to deal with cannabis - an entire industry functions around it.



0_equals_true
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16 Mar 2013, 10:31 am

I was expecting a bit more from the video, ok, but not exactly insightful.

I personally would legalize it.

Having said that not all the conspiracies are the case, not because they don't have motive, but practically speaking they don't make sense. Some of them are true, some of them were true, but are not longer the case. I have heard it from my pharmacologist cousin and pharmacist friend that GPs are not insisting more and more on generic drugs, and even if not that is what the pharmacists are giving much of the time. This is down to simple economics, especially the current state. Also not all in the drug industry are bad people, much of the original research isn't done by the major players (it is easier for them to just do the product development an marketing), int is quite often universities and other institutes.

Regarding medical MJ, there is some good research on this. The most recent on breast cancer is interesting, I would like to hear more about it.

Having said then much of the "Medical MJ" industry has nothing to do with science or genuine research. it is only there because of a loophole in California. It is kind of comical really, how wide these claims are. Nothing is a cue all.

It cultivation was the only thing you would have to do to cure all alinements, they we would have cured all diseases years ago, afterall it is easy to grow personally.

People take MJ primarily because it makes them feel good, that is what makes an effective drug, if you feel good, you will generally feel better. Feeling good does help you recover from a range of ailment faster.

Personally I would advise people to avoid skunk, in favor of green.

Most of the research on mental health shows that you need a balance of THC and CBD. So avoid strains low on CBD. It is not that everyone will get psychosis, it is just you might as well minimize your chances, just like you wouldn't drink methanol.



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17 Mar 2013, 12:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Prohibition is what made organized crime very big business.


The pharmaceutical industry IS organized crime. The pharmaceutical industry does have a lot of interest in medicinal marijuana, but they want to synthesize THC in a lab, put it in pill form, patent it, and keep the plant illegal. Synthetic TCH, in my opinion, is dangerous. But it's patentable, and for a drug to be profitable for the pharmaceutical industry, it has to be patented. You can't patent a plant.

I've studied horticulture and medicinal herbs other than just marijuana, and if you isolate the active chemical from any medicinal plant, you're bound to have negative long-term side effects. What was once a perfectly safe plant has become a poison. All medicinal plants have many natural chemical compounds in them, and the chemical compounds other than the active chemical work together with the active chemical to make it more effective, safer, and to balance out most negative side effects of the active chemical. Marijuana is no different than any other medicinal plant in the respect. Cannabis contains at least 483 chemical compounds, and that's not counting the ones that haven't been discovered yet. It's far too complex of a plant to safely synthesize in a lab, and that's why synthetic THC is dangerous and smoking pot has no negative health effects.

To comment on the discussion about working and smoking pot, I've done some of my best work, including plant pruning, art, and writing, when I was high. I am my own master, not a corporate slave, so I get to use my best judgement as to whether or not I'll smoke pot while I'm working and it depends on who I'm working for. If I'm working in my friend's muscadine vineyard, I'll smoke pot with him, and if I'm working for myself at home I'll smoke pot sometimes, but if I'm working for someone who I think might have a problem with it, I'll be respectful of them and stay straight when I'm working for them. Like 0_equals_true mentioned, there are different types of Cannabis. Cannabis sativa and sativa-dominant hybrids are better for working, and Cannabis indica and indica-dominant hybrids are better for zoning out and relaxing.

I just figured since I'm high right now, I might as well join in this discussion.


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17 Mar 2013, 5:19 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
I'm not sure that it makes people apathetic, paranoid and antisocial. Just based on observation, someone who is highly driven, trusting, and social will remain so even if they smoke all the time. Someone who is already apathetic, paranoid and antisocial by nature will likely remain so while smoking as well. The difference is that in the latter case, people will point to the weed and assume that is the cause.
it actually makes me not anxious and paranoid so I can go outside and actually not freak out seeing so many people. :S


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17 Mar 2013, 5:33 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Interesting about the pharmaceutical companies. I never thought about how motivated they would be to keep the medical properties of cannabis from being explored.
If anything big pharma got interest of a population smoking cannabis, as it raise the risks of scizophrenia and depression (Particullary if smoked during adolescence), as well as cancer. (Similar to cigarets, only possibly worse.) All that have been showed by scientific studies.


No scientific studies support those claims.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous. Smoking cannabis leading to cancer isn't something you can choose to be in denial about. There is a lot of science linking smoking to lung disease. Denying the existence of any studies that support links with mental illness is silly too.

Lung cancer: http://www.ersj.org.uk/content/31/2/280.full

Psychosis and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC135493/
Depression: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... ated=false
Psychosis among people with an unidentified gene: http://cannabis-truth.yolasite.com/reso ... nnabis.pdf



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17 Mar 2013, 5:38 pm

I do not for the life of me remember which news station I was watching on tv, but it was reporting on a study that showed marijuana users have a higher lung complicity.. nothing to do with lung cancer but I thought it was interesting.

The comments about marijuana causing schizophrenia are false, they are based on old studies that were used to scare the public. My own mental heath nurse practitioner has shown me studies that showed that many people with mental disorders such as schizophrenia ust happen to self medicate with marijuana and that it can be helpful for some of their symptoms.


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0_equals_true
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17 Mar 2013, 7:43 pm

Marshmallows wrote:
I do not for the life of me remember which news station I was watching on tv, but it was reporting on a study that showed marijuana users have a higher lung complicity.. nothing to do with lung cancer but I thought it was interesting.

The comments about marijuana causing schizophrenia are false, they are based on old studies that were used to scare the public. My own mental heath nurse practitioner has shown me studies that showed that many people with mental disorders such as schizophrenia ust happen to self medicate with marijuana and that it can be helpful for some of their symptoms.


It can actually be very unhelpful for their symptoms, my cousin is a classic example, and he was in the belief it could be helpful, but it is directly responsible for a serious deterioration, which wouldn't have happened, without it. Because he cannot always think straight the has repeated this, and it causes the same effect every time Direct cause an effect.


MJ is not a proven cause, of schizophrenia, and I'm skeptical of that too, however people with a predisposition to psychotic episodes, it is not always advisable to take it. As far of as controlling thing is, as it is people with this illness already have disordered thinking so whatever you think they are controlling, they are not in control, you cannot know what the reaction is going to be it can be very volatile. What lessens anxiety in an average person doesn't necessarily equate to someone with schizophrenia.

I think if we are going to have a sensible debate about MJ (and I'm pro legalization), people need to stop seeing MJ through rose tinted glasses, and more something like anything that has positives and negative.

It annoys me just as much that want to ban it, those who make out that is cure all because it makes them feel good. It has some medical uses don't get me wrong.



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18 Mar 2013, 1:11 am

Yea I can agree on the rose colored glasses view of weed, not only is it a cure all, its going to save the world.
Anyways the prohibitionist view of weed is something new when you consider weeds long history. The one good thing is someone can really abuse weed and have little problems because of it. And generally most people will get tired of it and cease using it. Eventually some bad thing is going to be found about it as research goes on. Compared to most other vices it is preferable.

How toxic is weed, I reefer to LD50 that's 50% lethal dose.
The LD50 of weed (pure THC) is 1,270 mg/kg (for a 150 lbs person that is about 3 ounces of pure THC.
Than would take 189 PureGold capsules. Or 1 1/4 pounds of weed @ 15% THC, in that form it comes to an LD50 of 8466 mg/kg. Someone needs to check my math.
Aspirin LD50 200 mg/kg
Caffeine LD50 192 mg/kg
Table salt is not as toxic with an LD50 of 3,000 mg/kg but it can give you high blood pressure.

Yes you could die from too much weed but practically speaking it is not very easy to get that much of it.

I dont know if big pharma is going to jump into the weed business, it to me looks more like its following in the way of how micro breweries may work without any competition from larger competitors. It does currently look like its becoming more or less legal state by state.



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18 Mar 2013, 4:56 am

Weed is not some magical mystery wonder-plant. People can have bad reactions to it. One of my friends more or less acts like a paranoid schizophrenic if he has two or three puffs from a joint.

The majority, however, get hungry, happy, and sleepy. What horrible side effects...


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Robdemanc
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18 Mar 2013, 5:55 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Interesting about the pharmaceutical companies. I never thought about how motivated they would be to keep the medical properties of cannabis from being explored.
If anything big pharma got interest of a population smoking cannabis, as it raise the risks of scizophrenia and depression (Particullary if smoked during adolescence), as well as cancer. (Similar to cigarets, only possibly worse.) All that have been showed by scientific studies.


No scientific studies support those claims.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous. Smoking cannabis leading to cancer isn't something you can choose to be in denial about. There is a lot of science linking smoking to lung disease. Denying the existence of any studies that support links with mental illness is silly too.

Lung cancer: http://www.ersj.org.uk/content/31/2/280.full

Psychosis and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC135493/
Depression: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... ated=false
Psychosis among people with an unidentified gene: http://cannabis-truth.yolasite.com/reso ... nnabis.pdf


The evidence is confusing at best:

CanceerResearch UK

Some studies seem to indicate a risk of lung cancer from cannabis, others seem to indicate a reduced risk.

The main issue it seems is that cannabis users mix it with tobacco, which undeniably causes lung cancer in many smokers.

The mental health issues are inconclusive, too few studies have been done, and seeing as mental health is not understood well, it is impossible to say what the risk factors are.

I am not saying cannabis is a safe substance, but I think it is a much lesser evil than many other legal substances, and indeed does have some benefits.



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18 Mar 2013, 9:05 am

Marshmallows wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
I'm not sure that it makes people apathetic, paranoid and antisocial. Just based on observation, someone who is highly driven, trusting, and social will remain so even if they smoke all the time. Someone who is already apathetic, paranoid and antisocial by nature will likely remain so while smoking as well. The difference is that in the latter case, people will point to the weed and assume that is the cause.
it actually makes me not anxious and paranoid so I can go outside and actually not freak out seeing so many people. :S


I wish it did that for me, because right now the only thing that makes me enjoy myself around a bunch of other people is alcohol, which is a lot less healthy than weed by far.



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18 Mar 2013, 5:55 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
Marshmallows wrote:
mercifullyfree wrote:
I'm not sure that it makes people apathetic, paranoid and antisocial. Just based on observation, someone who is highly driven, trusting, and social will remain so even if they smoke all the time. Someone who is already apathetic, paranoid and antisocial by nature will likely remain so while smoking as well. The difference is that in the latter case, people will point to the weed and assume that is the cause.
it actually makes me not anxious and paranoid so I can go outside and actually not freak out seeing so many people. :S


I wish it did that for me, because right now the only thing that makes me enjoy myself around a bunch of other people is alcohol, which is a lot less healthy than weed by far.


Are you anywhere near Washington State? Again, as of the last election, it's legal here.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



mercifullyfree
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18 Mar 2013, 6:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Are you anywhere near Washington State? Again, as of the last election, it's legal here.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I am not, but it would be nice. I like the pacific northwest. :P



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18 Mar 2013, 7:07 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Are you anywhere near Washington State? Again, as of the last election, it's legal here.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I am not, but it would be nice. I like the pacific northwest. :P


Come visit anytime!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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18 Mar 2013, 10:50 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlki3GpFsdI&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dvlki3GpFsdI&has_verified=1[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHvXKgKeVN8[/youtube]


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18 Mar 2013, 11:17 pm

They can legalize all of it for all I care.
The war on drugs and all that comes with it isn't worth it.


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