Women are not attracted to me because I'm not 'masculine'?

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Greb
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11 Apr 2013, 7:06 am

spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


Sweden?


Nope. Spain.


As someone who has been living on Spain for over 21 years I call bs on that.

As a matter of fact there is usually a case of domestic violence where both partners are separated and one of them has a restraining order and when he gets the kids he kills them just to hurt her.
There´s been plenty of talk about this phenomenom on tv shows in the past and Im not going to get into it but I will say this:
Theres no way slapping a woman will get you into jail in Spain, otherwise this males with restraining orders against them would have been in jail and unable to kill their children.

(Sorry to bring this up because its not something most people wanna read about but as I said Im not going to let someone get away with bs and this is the perfect example of how what he is saying is bs)


Off topic

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2004/12/29/p ... -42197.pdf

"Art.37 - Who, by any means, mistreat psychologically or physically (with no hurt) any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail" (in case of hurt, it's two to five years).

"Art.38 - Who slightly threatens any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail"


That is from 2004 and is a general one.
Most communities tackle this issue by themselves.

This is from end of 2012 and from C.Valenciana, http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/12/11/p ... -14978.pdf

Article 7. 3 We will make an individual study for each situation of domestic violence, taking into account its circumstances.

I see no mention of jail in 2012 in Valencia/its surroundings, again I dont know exactly where you live but most places have their own regional boe that they act by.


Dude, please, in Spain, a local law can tough up a national law, but it can NEVER relax it. If the national law says 6 to 12 month, local laws can increase this penalty, but never decrease it.


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hyperlexian
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11 Apr 2013, 7:14 am

appletheclown wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, a man is not "supposed" to do anything at all - men and women are not given roles that they have to follow. in the western world, about half of all of the people in the workforce are men, and half are women.

i agree that men and women should help each other, but that does NOT mean that anyone must be financially caring for anyone else unless that is the arrangement that an individual couple agrees upon. for some periods, when i was married, my husband stayed at home and cared for my daughter when she was little, and i worked full-time. it worked for us. other couples do it differently - sometimes the mother stays at home, sometimes neither parent stays at home.

i don't think most people end up in a situation where anyone has to die protecting them, i saved a man who could have died if i had not stopped someone from trying to kill him.

The willingness to do so is what I mean.

just because a woman gives birth doesn't mean that she has to have someone buy her groceries and take care of her indefinitely. giving birth is one small biological act, but life can have many other acts and roles in it. the small physical differences between men and women don't mean a whole lot in day to day life. childbirth doesn't happen for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week after all. you don't have to believe anything at all, because people are off doing these roles whether you believe in them or not. i have to admit i am rather shocked that you have never noticed that women are out doing jobs and contributing in the real world.

many men and women have similar roles in a household (differentiation is not actually required), or reversed roles, or whatever works for them. you can choose a more traditional way to do things, but that doesn't make it the "right" way or the way that things should be for other people. that's the beauty of the modern world - people can choose to do what works for them within their own relationship.

you don't have to be lazy (not sure where you got that idea, as i did not say that at all). but your future wife could work too, if she wanted to. or you could take turns working and caring for the household, if you wanted to make an agreement like that. many people work because they want to, not because they have to. it gives them a feeling of fulfilment and a sense of accomplishment. but your future wife will probably make her feelings clear about that.


Obviously you feel offended and are completely letting everything I say go past your ears. My wife is a rich mma champion? Hell yeah! A miner? Why not? A construction worker? So be it! An A-10 warthog tank destroyer pilot? They already got those! You must hate butlers very very very much....

I don't want want my wife to do anything she doesn't want to, and also want her to do everything she does! That doesn't mean some lady on the internet will instantly know some random day in my life my wife will smite me because I bought her milk and sugar and asked if she wanted a back rub! You gals sure do get offended when we try to make you feel special......
Did I ever tell you I would let her ask, or if I saw she was out I'd ask her if I could run to the store for her, oh wait you didn't ask, sorry I ever told you!

no, i am not offended in the slightest. i understand perfectly that couples are free to make their own choices about how they will make arrangements within their own marriage.


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spongy
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11 Apr 2013, 7:46 am

Greb wrote:
spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


Sweden?


Nope. Spain.


As someone who has been living on Spain for over 21 years I call bs on that.

As a matter of fact there is usually a case of domestic violence where both partners are separated and one of them has a restraining order and when he gets the kids he kills them just to hurt her.
There´s been plenty of talk about this phenomenom on tv shows in the past and Im not going to get into it but I will say this:
Theres no way slapping a woman will get you into jail in Spain, otherwise this males with restraining orders against them would have been in jail and unable to kill their children.

(Sorry to bring this up because its not something most people wanna read about but as I said Im not going to let someone get away with bs and this is the perfect example of how what he is saying is bs)


Off topic

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2004/12/29/p ... -42197.pdf

"Art.37 - Who, by any means, mistreat psychologically or physically (with no hurt) any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail" (in case of hurt, it's two to five years).

"Art.38 - Who slightly threatens any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail"


That is from 2004 and is a general one.
Most communities tackle this issue by themselves.

This is from end of 2012 and from C.Valenciana, http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/12/11/p ... -14978.pdf

Article 7. 3 We will make an individual study for each situation of domestic violence, taking into account its circumstances.

I see no mention of jail in 2012 in Valencia/its surroundings, again I dont know exactly where you live but most places have their own regional boe that they act by.


Dude, please, in Spain, a local law can tough up a national law, but it can NEVER relax it. If the national law says 6 to 12 month, local laws can increase this penalty, but never decrease it.


My knowledge in law is a bit limited

Ive talked with plenty of people about this issue for one reason or another(males who saw it happening to their coworkers, females that saw it happen to their siblings...) and not one of them mentioned a 6-12 month jail stay which seems to be more important than not seeing your kids for a couple of months which is what a lot of the detractors focus on(custody is taken away until you are proven not guilty/show that you are trying to change ), but if you say that it happens in every case I ll take your word for it



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11 Apr 2013, 9:52 am

I had a female friend tell me why so many girls won't date pretty boys, even if they attracted to them. The boys' good looks make them feel insecure about themselves. Women don't want competition with their boyfriend in the looks department. That's what she said; I am just relaying the message, FWIW. It may or may not be true. Some of the women on this forum can say whether they agree or not.

Though I don't date women - I am attracted to men, so I'm not too worried about it.

I would NEVER change myself to please others. Sorry, I'm not going to cut off my long hair or become a gym rat any time soon! That's not me. I want a partner who loves me for who I am.



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11 Apr 2013, 10:02 am

Greb wrote:
spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
spongy wrote:
Greb wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


Sweden?


Nope. Spain.


As someone who has been living on Spain for over 21 years I call bs on that.

As a matter of fact there is usually a case of domestic violence where both partners are separated and one of them has a restraining order and when he gets the kids he kills them just to hurt her.
There´s been plenty of talk about this phenomenom on tv shows in the past and Im not going to get into it but I will say this:
Theres no way slapping a woman will get you into jail in Spain, otherwise this males with restraining orders against them would have been in jail and unable to kill their children.

(Sorry to bring this up because its not something most people wanna read about but as I said Im not going to let someone get away with bs and this is the perfect example of how what he is saying is bs)


Off topic

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2004/12/29/p ... -42197.pdf

"Art.37 - Who, by any means, mistreat psychologically or physically (with no hurt) any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail" (in case of hurt, it's two to five years).

"Art.38 - Who slightly threatens any woman who is or has been his partner, will be punished with 6 to 12 months of jail"


That is from 2004 and is a general one.
Most communities tackle this issue by themselves.

This is from end of 2012 and from C.Valenciana, http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/12/11/p ... -14978.pdf

Article 7. 3 We will make an individual study for each situation of domestic violence, taking into account its circumstances.

I see no mention of jail in 2012 in Valencia/its surroundings, again I dont know exactly where you live but most places have their own regional boe that they act by.


Dude, please, in Spain, a local law can tough up a national law, but it can NEVER relax it. If the national law says 6 to 12 month, local laws can increase this penalty, but never decrease it.


In your country:

Spaniard woman going to jail because he slapped a man

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1043403/0/

Spaniard man not going to jail and he slapped a woman twice.

http://www.publico.es/453409/abofetear- ... -castellon

Both in Valencia.


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Greb
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11 Apr 2013, 10:57 am

BanjoGirl wrote:
In your country:

Spaniard woman going to jail because he slapped a man

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/1043403/0/

Spaniard man not going to jail and he slapped a woman twice.

http://www.publico.es/453409/abofetear- ... -castellon

Both in Valencia.

There are more Spaniards in Wrong Planet.


Well, BanjoGirl. I'm gonna take the time to explain how it works in Spain and why those news. I hope you appreciate it. But please, don't call me a liar, because it's not the case.

First thing: the national law about gender violance is clear. I quoted it before, so I don't need to repete it. That's a fact, as easy as that. This law has not been derogated and still rules.

So, if the national law says so, what happens?

If you want to understand it, you must know a bit about how Spain works.

(1) Politics. In Spain there's two main political parties, classical right and left, as in US. Last years the right party in Spain has been copying the main strategies from the US republicans, specially from the Tea Party and their Think Tanks. For example: boycott every left party's law. Gender violence law is a law that was made by the left party.

And then it comes to Valencia. This land is, right now, the feud of the right winged party. The interest network in this place is not equaled in the whole country.

And besides that, there's a big conexion between politics and judges all along the country.

And besides that, many judges belong secretly to the Opus Dei. (Yeap, the Opus Dei is not a story tale for movies. It's very real, and amazingly powerful in Spain, up to the point that one or several gouvernement ministers -I don't remember well- belong to this sect. Right NOW).

(2) Jurisprudence. Unless in US or UK, In Spain there's NOT jurisprudence (well, there's, but it almost doesn't count).

You can find here a map about it. Countries in red have, countries in blue don't.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... rldMap.png

What that means? As long as there's not a 'historic' of sentences, in a judicial case in Spain, one judge can do whatever he wants no matter what is the normal use in those cases. That causes that from time to time, absolutely surrealistic sentences arise. Sentences that contradict the law? Yeap, because....

(3) Corporatism. The key to understand Spain is that people has zero civism and feel no responsability for the country or the society, but they're highly loyal to any group they belong (family, Opus Dei, political party... or judiciary). That means that any judge has almost full inmunity no matter what he does.

In this blog you can find many cases of absolutely irrational sentences that go against what says in the law. With very surrealistic excuses, usually.

http://garciamado.blogspot.nl/

And nothing happens, because judges are corporatists and they don't sentence other judges.

And now, mix all those stuff and stir well. You have a system where judges can rise surrealistic sentences without problem. Now go to Valencia, where the right winged party rules every corner of this land, and there the judges, very connected to this right winged party, boycott the law rising some sentences that go against the law. Yeap, that happens.

Of course, you can appeal to a higher court, and probably when it goes to the capital, the higher court is gonna cancel the original sentence. If this reaches this court, that's not sure because it takes money and time. But the main goal is to block the gourvenement, to create as many obstacles as possible, and, from this point of view, it works.

Valencia is the same place, for example, where when a school subject about human rights was ordered for the whole country by the left party, it was obstructed. How was it done? First, the subject existed but there was no teachers. When that couldn't be handled anymore, the subject was teached in english to kids that had no level of this language. So the kids were the whole lesson listening to the teacher without being able to understand a word.

So, what the national law says is clear. Now, if you want to go to specific cases, specially in areas with right winged judges, as Valencia, you must know how the country works, because it's crazy and chaotic.


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11 Apr 2013, 12:07 pm

I know how Spain works, and I know very well Valencia too, very, very well.

But your explanation doesn't demonstrate that men that slap women go to jail and women that slap men don't go to jail as you stated before. Can you demonstrate that all the men that slap a woman in Spain go to jail? I think this is the typical generalization that you read over the internet about "feminazism".

More examples (not in Valencia this time).

Murcia - Man slaps, throws to the floor and kicks woman, not jail.

http://www.laverdad.es/murcia/v/2011091 ... 10914.html

Cantabria - Woman hits man, jail

http://www.europapress.es/cantabria/not ... 20520.html

Seville (socialist place!) - Woman slaps man, jail.

http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/200 ... 50215.html

There are a lot of different sentences.

Thanks for the link of that blog, I will take a look at it.

This is very off-topic :?


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11 Apr 2013, 12:29 pm

BanjoGirl wrote:
I know how it works because I'm from Spain too. And I know very well Valencia, very, very well.

But your explanation doesn't demonstrate that men that slap women go to jail and women that slap men don't go to jail as you stated before. Can you demonstrate that all the men that slap a woman in Spain go to jail? I think this is the typical generalization that you read over the internet about "feminazism".

More examples (not in Valencia this time).

Murcia - Man slaps, throws to the floor and kicks woman, not jail.

http://www.laverdad.es/murcia/v/2011091 ... 10914.html

Torrelavega, Cantabria - Woman throw beers to man, jail

http://www.europapress.es/cantabria/not ... 20520.html

Seville (socialist place!) - Woman slaps man, jail.

http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/200 ... 50215.html

There are a lot of different sentences.


No, BanjoGirl, I can not demostrate that every man that slaaps a woman goes to jail.

Neither can I demonstrate that every person that steels a car goes to jail.

Neither can I demostrate that every man that rapes a woman goes to jail.

Neither can I demostrate that every person that robs a house goes to jail.

Neither can I demonstrate that every person that kills somebody goes to jail.

I'm just stating which is the law. Period.

And about your news, c'mon, for throwing beers to a man? for slaaping? All cases you have posted were sentenced because there were injuries reported in medical reports. And yes, besides that, it's true, you're right: some beer was thrown.

But well, I'm tired. If you want to argue, you know where is the law. If you wanna call me liar, you take the law, you quote what you need, and you post it here. Period. Otherwise I'm not gonna waste more time with this.


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11 Apr 2013, 12:44 pm

Ok Greb, but next time if you don't want someone replying you, don't say something like

Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


You weren't talking about laws here. Next time be more specific, avoid the generalizations and vague informations.


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Greb
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11 Apr 2013, 1:07 pm

BanjoGirl wrote:
Ok Greb, but next time if you don't want someone replying you, don't say something like

Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


You weren't talking about laws here. Next time be more specific, avoid the generalizations and vague informations.


Well, the law says that a man that slaaps ther partner or expartner is punished with 6 to 12 months of jail.

Of course, that doesn't mean that he appears magically in jail after slapping. Abracadabra, plop!

You call it generalization. I think that it's quite clear that, if I say 'If you kill somebody, you go to jail', what I mean is that the law says that if you kill somebody, you go to jail. Not that suddenly people are teletransported to jail after killing somebody. And of course, some people will have good lawyers and will avoid jail. So, fine, saying 'If you kill somebody, you go to jail' is really a fake. But, is it that difficult to understand that I'm talking about the law?

I know that asperger use to understand things literally, but, honestly, I find this a bit ridiculous.

But, well, more was wasted in the Cuban War. Let's leave it here. I don't want to antagonize you, even if you're not a cellist.


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Last edited by Greb on 11 Apr 2013, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MXH
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11 Apr 2013, 1:09 pm

The real question is who gives a f**k and what does any of this have to do with not being liked for being feminine/masculine?



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11 Apr 2013, 1:17 pm

Greb wrote:
BanjoGirl wrote:
Ok Greb, but next time if you don't want someone replying you, don't say something like

Greb wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Slap her back. If someones slaps me, I slap back, anyway what it is. (Ok, toddlers and babies excluded. ^^)


In my country, if she slaaps you, that's OK. If you slaap her, you go to jail.

No kidding.


You weren't talking about laws here. Next time be more specific, avoid the generalizations and vague informations.


Well, the law says that a man that slaaps ther partner or expartner is punished with 6 to 12 months of jail.

Of course, that doesn't mean that he appears magically in jail after slapping. Abracadabra, plop!

You call it generalization. I think that it's quite clear that, if I say 'If you kill somebody, you go to jail', what I mean is that the law says that if you kill somebody, you go to jail. Not that suddenly people are teletransported to jail after killing somebody. And of course, some people will have good lawyers and will avoid jail. So, fine, saying 'If you kill somebody, you go to jail' is really a fake. But, is it that difficult to understand that I'm talking about the law?

I know that asperger use to understand things literally, but, honestly, I find this a bit ridiculous.

But, well, more was wasted in the Cuban War. Let's leave it here. I don't want to antagonize you, even if you're not a cellist.


Ok. No, there is no need of being antagonists. We can't agree in every topic.


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11 Apr 2013, 1:26 pm

BanjoGirl wrote:
Ok. No, there is no need of being antagonists. We can't agree in every topic.


Glad to hear it.


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11 Apr 2013, 4:03 pm

I'm more curious why someone likes to continuously spell the word, "slaaps". ;)


Hey, out of curiosity... since those Spaniards are going to jail for all that slapping, are the men getting more or equal jail time for the same offense?



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11 Apr 2013, 4:13 pm

BlueMax wrote:
I'm more curious why someone likes to continuously spell the word, "slaaps". ;)


Hey, out of curiosity... since those Spaniards are going to jail for all that slapping, are the men getting more or equal jail time for the same offense?


Damn. Sorry, I'm mixing with 'hij slaapt'.


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11 Apr 2013, 4:17 pm

Greb wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
I'm more curious why someone likes to continuously spell the word, "slaaps". ;)


Hey, out of curiosity... since those Spaniards are going to jail for all that slapping, are the men getting more or equal jail time for the same offense?


Damn. Sorry, I'm mixing with 'hij slaapt'.


are you dutch?