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AspieOtaku
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29 Apr 2013, 4:52 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
No, I'm not an expert on pedophiles.
As for the materials themselves; are they still produced through the victimization of children?
And rather than creating pornographic materials to sate pedophiles, wouldn't society - and the pedophiles themselves - be better served by providing them with therapy in order to thwart their sexual interest in children?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Did you really forget what started this conversation already?

Kraichgauer wrote:
It can be argued that even with a computer generated image of a child as a sexual object, the pedophile would eventually want to experience the real thing.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So, again, if computer generated child porn can help keep pedophiles from attacking real children, what is your problem with it?

As to society helping pedophiles, would you want to advertise your status as such in a society full of Fnords?

Thank you, by the way, Fnord, for making the world less safe for children, it's a real service you're doing there.
For the record if it was full of AspieOtakus wed just toss stuff thats either a detriment to society or undesireable, like garbage, murderers, child molestors, racists, and rapists into volcanoes!!


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AspieOtaku
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29 Apr 2013, 4:58 am

GGPViper wrote:
/\ Troll...
Image^ troll!


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Ancalagon
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29 Apr 2013, 11:48 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
No, no. My point was, photographs of women weren't enough for me after a time, and I had wanted the real thing. I'm saying it would only be a matter of time till pedophiles want more than just a computerized image of a child.

Pedophile means someone who likes kids sexually; it's not the same thing as a child molester, who uses children to satisfy his pedophilia. In the same way, you being a straight man means you want women sexually, it doesn't mean that if you can't get laid you're going to go out and rape someone.

There was a very old thread on WP that had a pedophile asking people on WP for advice; he made it clear that he didn't want to hurt actual kids, but that he really couldn't help the attraction. I think such people need compassion and help, not only for their own sake, but because it would probably reduce the risk to kids as well.

The sorts of childish vengeance fantasies in this thread about tazering their balls and the like are not useful, and are getting mad at the wrong thing. It's getting mad at the attraction, which doesn't harm anyone and can't be helped, not at the actual abuse of children, which does harm someone and can be helped.


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Misslizard
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29 Apr 2013, 11:53 am

A dunking booth at the state fair with a real live child molester in it,people would line up to throw a ball and dunk the Pedo,the money could go to abused children's services.No telling how much money could be made.
After all our government thinks its ok to waterboard people they THINK are terrorists,why can't we waterboard a convicted pervert??For a good cause,of course :twisted: :lol:


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PsychoSarah
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29 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

Misslizard wrote:
A dunking booth at the state fair with a real live child molester in it,people would line up to throw a ball and dunk the Pedo,the money could go to abused children's services.No telling how much money could be made.
After all our government thinks its ok to waterboard people they THINK are terrorists,why can't we waterboard a convicted pervert??For a good cause,of course :twisted: :lol:


Make that tank full of acid, an I will be in that line :twisted:



jekenai
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29 Apr 2013, 12:45 pm

I've seen some claims about pedophiles, child pornography and child sexual abuse here. I know more than a little bit about pedophilia, I have a friend that is a pedophile, when he told me, I started to look up some information, I've seen articles in media, tried to read some scientific studies and also found some websites about pedophilia by pedophiles.

Kraichgauer wrote:
It can be argued that even with a computer generated image of a child as a sexual object, the pedophile would eventually want to experience the real thing.


Certainly it can, but some studies seems to contradict the hypothesis, that availability of child pornography increases prevalence of child sexual abuse, some suggest that it can actually decrease it. There seem to be a lot of studies about child pornography increasing the risk of sexually abusing a child in individual with bad methodology that can't be therefore considered reliable.

Dox47 wrote:
Are you an expert on pedophiles? Here is a study that suggests that kiddie porn might actually keep them from offending:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 111326.htm


If it's the study I think it is, then I definitely wouldn't consider it a proof, that availability of child pornography decreases prevalence of child pornography, but it can be seen as a proof, that some claims about child pornography strongly increasing risk of child sexual abuse are not correct.

Keni wrote:
I will never understand why someone who finds themselves attracted to children wouldn't immediately seek prevention therapy.


Some people are afraid. Some people tells themselves that they are not pedophiles (because they imagine a pedophile as guy raping children, who they are not). Some people have no reason to (they have already found information and learned ways how to live with pedophilia, they know the risks etc.)

Kraichgauer wrote:
And rather than creating pornographic materials to sate pedophiles, wouldn't society - and the pedophiles themselves - be better served by providing them with therapy in order to thwart their sexual interest in children?


As far as I know there is no way how to do that. Antiandrogens and castration can reduce the sex drive, but it doesn't remove it completely, it also often have serious side effects - hardly an option for most of the pedophiles (who don't have problems with self-control and can fulfill their sexual needs with masturbation like other people do when they don't have a partner).



PsychoSarah
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29 Apr 2013, 12:46 pm

If you have friends who are pedophiles, then you might want to reconsider who you associate yourself with.



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29 Apr 2013, 12:48 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
Pedophile means someone who likes kids sexually; it's not the same thing as a child molester, who uses children to satisfy his pedophilia.
...


Thanks, great post, exactly my point.



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29 Apr 2013, 12:53 pm

PsychoSarah wrote:
If you have friends who are pedophiles, then you might want to reconsider who you associate yourself with.

Why should I? I don't see a reason. Yes, I have a friend who is a pedophile, so what?! Pedophiles are people like everyone else, except being attracted to children instead of adults. I care about what they are like, what they do.



PsychoSarah
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29 Apr 2013, 12:55 pm

You are defending pedophiles! Why are you defending pedophiles?



MCalavera
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29 Apr 2013, 1:04 pm

You are a psycho, are you not? Why should anyone defend you if someone hurls insults at you for being a psycho?



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29 Apr 2013, 1:14 pm

PsychoSarah wrote:
You are defending pedophiles! Why are you defending pedophiles?


I don't know if I can tell I am defending them here, but anyway - if they get attacked for no valid reason, I'll defend them. I just don't like when people attack someone based on prejudice. Also I think prejudices about pedophiles have negative effects on society, including for example taking actions that do more harm than good.



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29 Apr 2013, 2:04 pm

jekenai wrote:
I've seen some claims about pedophiles, child pornography and child sexual abuse here. I know more than a little bit about pedophilia, I have a friend that is a pedophile, when he told me, I started to look up some information, I've seen articles in media, tried to read some scientific studies and also found some websites about pedophilia by pedophiles.

Kraichgauer wrote:
It can be argued that even with a computer generated image of a child as a sexual object, the pedophile would eventually want to experience the real thing.


Certainly it can, but some studies seems to contradict the hypothesis, that availability of child pornography increases prevalence of child sexual abuse, some suggest that it can actually decrease it. There seem to be a lot of studies about child pornography increasing the risk of sexually abusing a child in individual with bad methodology that can't be therefore considered reliable.

Dox47 wrote:
Are you an expert on pedophiles? Here is a study that suggests that kiddie porn might actually keep them from offending:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 111326.htm


If it's the study I think it is, then I definitely wouldn't consider it a proof, that availability of child pornography decreases prevalence of child pornography, but it can be seen as a proof, that some claims about child pornography strongly increasing risk of child sexual abuse are not correct.

Keni wrote:
I will never understand why someone who finds themselves attracted to children wouldn't immediately seek prevention therapy.


Some people are afraid. Some people tells themselves that they are not pedophiles (because they imagine a pedophile as guy raping children, who they are not). Some people have no reason to (they have already found information and learned ways how to live with pedophilia, they know the risks etc.)

Kraichgauer wrote:
And rather than creating pornographic materials to sate pedophiles, wouldn't society - and the pedophiles themselves - be better served by providing them with therapy in order to thwart their sexual interest in children?


As far as I know there is no way how to do that. Antiandrogens and castration can reduce the sex drive, but it doesn't remove it completely, it also often have serious side effects - hardly an option for most of the pedophiles (who don't have problems with self-control and can fulfill their sexual needs with masturbation like other people do when they don't have a partner).


I have a friend who has special insights into the treatment of pedophiles, and he's told me that therapy has in fact been very successful. There is in fact less recidivism among treated pedophiles, he's told me, than there is among drug addicts. The one important factor for the therapy to work is the pedophile needs to honestly want to change.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Apr 2013, 2:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who has special insights into the treatment of pedophiles, and he's told me that therapy has in fact been very successful. There is in fact less recidivism among treated pedophiles, he's told me, than there is among drug addicts. The one important factor for the therapy to work is the pedophile needs to honestly want to change.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


But is it focused on changing who is the person attracted to or to prevent pedophilic offenders from re-offense? I know there are treatment programs for pedophilic offenders focused of re-offense prevention and that they are quite effective, but they don't change the fact, that the person is attracted towards children.



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29 Apr 2013, 2:48 pm

jekenai wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who has special insights into the treatment of pedophiles, and he's told me that therapy has in fact been very successful. There is in fact less recidivism among treated pedophiles, he's told me, than there is among drug addicts. The one important factor for the therapy to work is the pedophile needs to honestly want to change.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


But is it focused on changing who is the person attracted to or to prevent pedophilic offenders from re-offense? I know there are treatment programs for pedophilic offenders focused of re-offense prevention and that they are quite effective, but they don't change the fact, that the person is attracted towards children.


My friend has assured me this therapy is pretty effective. I'm just going by what someone with insights knows.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Apr 2013, 3:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
My friend has assured me this therapy is pretty effective. I'm just going by what someone with insights knows.


But you haven't answered my question about what is the goal of that therapy.