Men, Math and Marriage--arguments against marriage

Page 1 of 12 [ 177 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 120
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

04 May 2013, 10:54 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42sI2G4m5aU[/youtube]

He does make some excellent arguments against marriage.

Does anyone have any counter-arguments to offer? Or, more support for his point-of-view?



cakey
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 371

04 May 2013, 11:09 am

For me money has nothing to do with marriage and I'm not a materialistic person. In addition, maybe the divorce rates are higher since women have more rights than to put up with a husband who cheats(In the past they would just keep quiet since they were financially dependent). And theyare higher since in the past people would marry within months of meeting or even trying to live tpgetehr first. I think living together first allows you to really get to know the person. For me, marriage isn't much of anything but a nice representation of two people's love for each other. There might be other people who do think marriage as money, but I wouldn't know. I also think it's best to marry after school is over and both can be smart to live comfortably than to get married too young.


_________________
Neurotypical. I'm very friendly; feel free to message me. :)


boywonder
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 1 Aug 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114

04 May 2013, 11:18 am

Vows before god are not taken seriously enough, children then suffer



Tyri0n
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)

04 May 2013, 12:58 pm

cakey wrote:
For me money has nothing to do with marriage and I'm not a materialistic person. In addition, maybe the divorce rates are higher since women have more rights than to put up with a husband who cheats(In the past they would just keep quiet since they were financially dependent). And theyare higher since in the past people would marry within months of meeting or even trying to live tpgetehr first. I think living together first allows you to really get to know the person. For me, marriage isn't much of anything but a nice representation of two people's love for each other. There might be other people who do think marriage as money, but I wouldn't know. I also think it's best to marry after school is over and both can be smart to live comfortably than to get married too young.


1. Studies show that women are more likely to cheat than men.

2. I think your arguments are valid as far as commitment goes. But why get officially married? From a male perspective, it makes no sense at all. Not only is it punishing from a tax point of view (the marriage penalty), marriage basically gives women all the rights: alimony, child support, custody.

This reminds me of one of my friends whose father is a stable successful middle-class engineer and whose mother was an untreated bipolar drug addict who was usually homeless and let her children become malnourished.

When they got divorced, guess who got custody of the children?

Yes, marriage is a travesty.



appletheclown
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2013
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,378
Location: Soul Society

04 May 2013, 1:13 pm

boywonder wrote:
Vows before God are not taken seriously enough, children then suffer because of it.


I agree.


_________________
comedic burp


BuyerBeware
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,476
Location: PA, USA

04 May 2013, 1:19 pm

Well, I don't know about family court giving women all the rights. Maybe it gives NT women all the rights. I'm female and I'm sure that if we were to end up in family court (and y'all know I think a lot about it), he would have all the rights and I would be carless, shirtless, homeless, penniless, and above all childless.

I do agree that marriage laws are a travesty. Marriage is a travesty. The state of marriage in this country is a travesty. Social expectations of men, women, husbands, wives, and marriage in Western culture seems to be, well, a travesty.

Ergo, his advice is sound.

Even if you find a partner that pays their own way (mine didn't, when we were starting out, but he had the skills to make a success of college and I had the means-- mostly consisting of experience at how to be poor and the subservience to work in fast food without killing myself, my boss, or the customers-- to support us until he was done; now I bring in no money and he pays the bills, and when the last kid goes to school-- IF WE MAKE IT THAT LONG-- he will still be the higher earner 'cause I've accepted that I'm a menial-job kind of girl, but I'll go back to earning money unless his parents need me to care for them during the day).

His advice is sound. For everyone. Male and female. Straight or LGBT. Regardless of neurotype, culture, mental or physical health. or any other demographic you can think of.

TheDuggars might be the only living exception-- and I'm not saying "People who live a Duggar-type lifestyle." I'm talking about TheDuggars-- the television representation of the lives of two people named JimBob and Michelle Duggar and their offspring...

...in other words, no one. No exceptions.

In the current cultural climate, marriage is just a bad friggin' idea.

And that makes me very sad. Because I like the institution, the idea, the concept. I want it to be workable. But I've been around long enough to understand that, here and now, it ISN'T.


_________________
"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"


Anomiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,023

04 May 2013, 1:30 pm

cakey wrote:
For me money has nothing to do with marriage and I'm not a materialistic person. In addition, maybe the divorce rates are higher since women have more rights than to put up with a husband who cheats(In the past they would just keep quiet since they were financially dependent). And theyare higher since in the past people would marry within months of meeting or even trying to live tpgetehr first. I think living together first allows you to really get to know the person. For me, marriage isn't much of anything but a nice representation of two people's love for each other. There might be other people who do think marriage as money, but I wouldn't know. I also think it's best to marry after school is over and both can be smart to live comfortably than to get married too young.


This.



hanyo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,302

04 May 2013, 1:34 pm

I don't know if I'd agree with that video but I've seen too many bad marriages/relationships in real life and people complaining about them online that I wonder why all these people even bother staying together.

I'm never getting married but if I was in a committed relationship and it was good I'd want to be married. That will never happen though because I'm not interested in being in a relationship.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

04 May 2013, 1:51 pm

In my society, the man has to afford for the whole wedding, the whole honeymoon, the whole house, the car, the life expenses, the woman's contribution is optional.

It's the case for Muslims and Christians alike.



Anomiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,023

04 May 2013, 1:53 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my society, the man has to afford for the whole wedding, the whole honeymoon, the whole house, the car, the life expenses, the woman's contribution is optional.

It's the case for Muslims and Christians alike.


That's an argument against religion, or what marriage means in those cultures. Which not everyone follows either because it's 2013. Not an argument against whatever marriage means to someone outside that.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

04 May 2013, 2:12 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my society, the man has to afford for the whole wedding, the whole honeymoon, the whole house, the car, the life expenses, the woman's contribution is optional.

It's the case for Muslims and Christians alike.


Here it's the bride's family that pays for the wedding. Of course nowdays it's not so strict and most couples pay for a lot of their own expenses for the wedding. My husband and I paid for ours ourselves and we had a nice wedding. When my oldest daughter gets married I don't know what we are going to do about paying for it. The thing is, I know she doesn't want a big church wedding so that won't be as much of an expense. I don't know when they are going to get married, as they are only officially engaged about a year or so but they have been together for six years this month and live together. She says they are going to wait until they can afford it to get married. They are both athiests but I would still like her to have the big church wedding, not because of any religious reasons but because church weddings are so much prettier I think. They also take a long time to plan for too.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


hartzofspace
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,138
Location: On the Road Less Traveled

04 May 2013, 2:20 pm

IMO, this man has been badly burned and that is the sole reason for his speech. He lacks positive marriage experience, and therefore is seeking to open a school for misogynists by proliferating these types of ideas. You never hear much about happily married people, but the media plays up and publicizes the bad ones. You don't see worldwide media coverage of quietly happy married couples just living their lives, but let some celebrity marriage fail, and it makes headlines. I take this presentation with a grain of salt, because it is extremely biased against women as well. Sure, a lot of what he says is true, but the scenarios that he sets forth here are not the only possible outcomes for marriage. People can be happy in marriage too, can stay married for fifty years and raise healthy children. You just don't hear about it as much. The people whose marriages have failed are the loudest protesters and the most bitter arbiters against marriage. That shouldn't be a reason for anyone to decide against marriage. The person considering marriage should gather equal evidence about successful marriages, in order to offset all the negativity out there.


_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

04 May 2013, 2:21 pm

Anomiel wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
In my society, the man has to afford for the whole wedding, the whole honeymoon, the whole house, the car, the life expenses, the woman's contribution is optional.

It's the case for Muslims and Christians alike.


That's an argument against religion, or what marriage means in those cultures. Which not everyone follows either because it's 2013. Not an argument against whatever marriage means to someone outside that.


I said: in my society.



Anomiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,023

04 May 2013, 3:00 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Here it's the bride's family that pays for the wedding. Of course nowdays it's not so strict and most couples pay for a lot of their own expenses for the wedding.


Same here. Though most people are atheists.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

04 May 2013, 4:33 pm

hartzofspace wrote:
IMO, this man has been badly burned and that is the sole reason for his speech. He lacks positive marriage experience, and therefore is seeking to open a school for misogynists by proliferating these types of ideas. You never hear much about happily married people, but the media plays up and publicizes the bad ones. You don't see worldwide media coverage of quietly happy married couples just living their lives, but let some celebrity marriage fail, and it makes headlines. I take this presentation with a grain of salt, because it is extremely biased against women as well. Sure, a lot of what he says is true, but the scenarios that he sets forth here are not the only possible outcomes for marriage. People can be happy in marriage too, can stay married for fifty years and raise healthy children. You just don't hear about it as much. The people whose marriages have failed are the loudest protesters and the most bitter arbiters against marriage. That shouldn't be a reason for anyone to decide against marriage. The person considering marriage should gather equal evidence about successful marriages, in order to offset all the negativity out there.


When some man talks about men's rights, he has past issues and inviting misogynists.

And when a feminist talks about women's rights, she's defending women's rights.

Nice logic, hartzofspace.



DialAForAwesome
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Oct 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,189
Location: That place with the thing

04 May 2013, 4:51 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
cakey wrote:
For me money has nothing to do with marriage and I'm not a materialistic person. In addition, maybe the divorce rates are higher since women have more rights than to put up with a husband who cheats(In the past they would just keep quiet since they were financially dependent). And theyare higher since in the past people would marry within months of meeting or even trying to live tpgetehr first. I think living together first allows you to really get to know the person. For me, marriage isn't much of anything but a nice representation of two people's love for each other. There might be other people who do think marriage as money, but I wouldn't know. I also think it's best to marry after school is over and both can be smart to live comfortably than to get married too young.


1. Studies show that women are more likely to cheat than men.

2. I think your arguments are valid as far as commitment goes. But why get officially married? From a male perspective, it makes no sense at all. Not only is it punishing from a tax point of view (the marriage penalty), marriage basically gives women all the rights: alimony, child support, custody.

This reminds me of one of my friends whose father is a stable successful middle-class engineer and whose mother was an untreated bipolar drug addict who was usually homeless and let her children become malnourished.

When they got divorced, guess who got custody of the children?

Yes, marriage is a travesty.


This happened with my dad. He married a woman who was a hardcore drug user (which he didn't find out about for a long time; she did a great job keeping it quiet), who even got convicted of stealing prescriptions from the hospital she worked at, and subsequently lost her license.

My dad's worst offense was.... a DUI. When they got divorced, the woman got custody of the kid (my half-brother). My dad had to pay child support, even though this woman was a drug abuser and a thief.

Yeah, life is pretty cruel.


_________________
I don't trust anyone because I'm cynical.
I'm cynical because I don't trust anyone.