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Tyri0n
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04 May 2013, 11:27 pm

Can this be psychological or must it always be neurological?

I have many siblings, and the older ones have a similar voice. None of them would meet the criteria for Asperger's to the extent I would, but some of them have worse social problems in other areas, too. How can one determine whether the signature Asperger's voice is due to Asperger's or due to environmental factors? And, if so, what environmental factors might cause a monotone voice?



Verdandi
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05 May 2013, 12:23 am

It can be psychological or neurological.

The determination is mostly by observing what other criteria a person fits. Someone who speaks in a monotone but doesn't have enough symptoms of autism for a diagnosis wouldn't be identified as such.



Tyri0n
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05 May 2013, 12:27 am

Verdandi wrote:
It can be psychological or neurological.

The determination is mostly by observing what other criteria a person fits. Someone who speaks in a monotone but doesn't have enough symptoms of autism for a diagnosis wouldn't be identified as such.


It would be monotone as evidence of social communication problems + social isolation and then something in the OCD category for Asperger's under the DSM IV. Anyway, that was the evidence used to support my diagnosis.

Monotone was used as the main evidence of difficulties with reciprocal communication. It definitely does pose such a problem.



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05 May 2013, 12:30 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It can be psychological or neurological.

The determination is mostly by observing what other criteria a person fits. Someone who speaks in a monotone but doesn't have enough symptoms of autism for a diagnosis wouldn't be identified as such.


It would be monotone as evidence of social communication problems + social isolation and then something in the OCD category for Asperger's under the DSM IV. Anyway, that was the evidence used to support my diagnosis.

Monotone was used as the main evidence of difficulties with reciprocal communication. It definitely does pose such a problem.


Yes, but by itself it would be insufficient for a diagnosis.



Verdandi
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05 May 2013, 12:56 am

Other possible reasons for a monotone voice include:

* You have one just because
* Schizoid personality disorder
* Alexithymia without autism
* Possible consequence of complex PTSD
* Schizophrenia
* Schizotypal personality disorder

Just to name a few.



Tyri0n
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05 May 2013, 12:58 am

Verdandi wrote:
Other possible reasons for a monotone voice include:

* You have one just because
* Schizoid personality disorder
* Alexithymia without autism
* Possible consequence of complex PTSD
* Schizophrenia
* Schizotypal personality disorder

Just to name a few.


PTSD? I am very interested in that.

Also, NLD, or just the mild Asperger's I probably have but is overshadowed by other things, socially and functionally.

The thing is, I have siblings who have the signature voice too, who grew up under similar conditions. But, what's really interesting, is that my siblings who did not grow up under such repressive conditions do not have it. Maybe my siblings just got it from me, or maybe there was a common cause, such as being forced to be in the presence of an abusive parent 24/7.



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05 May 2013, 1:12 am

Many people have monotone voices without having mental disorders.


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briankelley
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05 May 2013, 1:25 am

What I can't help but noticing is, that of all the You Tube videos I've watched with adults talking about their Aspergers, I have never noticed any of them a having remarkably pronounced monotone voice... Not a single one and I've listened to quite a few of them.



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05 May 2013, 1:43 am

briankelley wrote:
What I can't help but noticing is, that of all the You Tube videos I've watched with adults talking about their Aspergers, I have never noticed any of them a having remarkably pronounced monotone voice... Not a single one and I've listened to quite a few of them.


The question is: up to what point is possible to develop a non-monotone voice? (as a process of adaptation and learning).

And, besides the fact that this can take years, why some people wouldn't be able to do so even being adults?


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Verdandi
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05 May 2013, 1:56 am

Tyri0n wrote:
PTSD? I am very interested in that.


Quote:
Also, NLD, or just the mild Asperger's I probably have but is overshadowed by other things, socially and functionally.


I forgot to include NLD, but yes. I thought you were asking about everything but autism.

As far as PTSD goes, it's a possibility (flat affect in general) and alexithymia is as well, often due to suppressing emotional responses and emotions to avoid further trauma.

Quote:
The thing is, I have siblings who have the signature voice too, who grew up under similar conditions. But, what's really interesting, is that my siblings who did not grow up under such repressive conditions do not have it. Maybe my siblings just got it from me, or maybe there was a common cause, such as being forced to be in the presence of an abusive parent 24/7.


It's possible, I think. My mother was like this for a time after getting away from her abusive husband, although she has recovered from that.



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05 May 2013, 2:06 am

An environment that discourages individuality and causes people to hide in language, fear and other emotions. They say you can be tongue tied, a gasp, gobsmacked. Even working around noisy machinery may affect communication too. Mineral deficiencies and culture



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05 May 2013, 2:16 am

Greb wrote:
The question is: up to what point is possible to develop a non-monotone voice? (as a process of adaptation and learning).

And, besides the fact that this can take years, why some people wouldn't be able to do so even being adults?


What I'm saying is that I've never heard an Aspie with a monotone voice. Young or old. Watch all the You Tube videos of young people, teens and kinds talking about their Aspergers... None of them I've listened to seem to have a monotone voice. So I'm skeptical that they exist in the majority of Aspies. Just because "monotone voice" is on every Aspergers list of traits and in every online test, doesn't make it so. I guess I have to hear it to believe it, and so far out of a large number of Aspies I've listened to, I have not heard a noticeably monotone voice.

I'm wondering how subjective we are to what we read i.e. "Aspies have a monotone voice", "Aspies stim" etc, and then we take it for granted that we're supposed to be manifesting those traits... Simply because they're on a list.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding what monotone voice is supposed to mean



Last edited by briankelley on 05 May 2013, 2:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

Tyri0n
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05 May 2013, 2:19 am

Someone on the Borderline forum mentioned repressed anger and then listed about 20 symptoms of it, of which I meet about 17. Is this credited? I did a search on "borderline" + "monotone" + "repressed anger" but couldn't find anything. I also searched for "acting in" + "Borderline" + "monotone" but couldn't find it either. Logically, it makes sense since the acting in borderline directs all their borderline rage inwards. But I'm not sure if it works this way in real life.

http://www.psychforums.com/borderline-p ... 13013.html

In my case, it could be a combination of neurology and psychology. However, two professional acting teachers have told me I also have an issue with holding energy in as well, basically hiding inside myself. This is not something I've observed in other aspies. People who are very anxious are also very quiet and inward focused, but it's somehow different than what I do.



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05 May 2013, 2:33 am

briankelley wrote:
Greb wrote:
The question is: up to what point is possible to develop a non-monotone voice? (as a process of adaptation and learning).

And, besides the fact that this can take years, why some people wouldn't be able to do so even being adults?


What I'm saying is that I've never heard an Aspie with a monotone voice. So I'm skeptical that they exist in the majority of Aspies. Just because "monotone voice" is on every Aspergers list of traits and in every online test, doesn't make it so. I guess I have to hear it to believe it, and so far out of a large number of Aspies I've listened to, I have not heard a noticeably monotone voice.

I'm wondering how subjective we are to what we read i.e. "Aspies have a monotone voice, "Aspies stim" etc, and then we take it for granted that we're supposed to be manifesting those traits... Simply because they're on a list.


Well, those lists have been done by psychologists. The way you do it is taking a population and checking symptoms that has a high correlation. So, it's very likely that the asperger population used as a sample had this sypmtom.

And yet here comes the tricky part: how you select this sample? You select people with asperger. How do you know they have asperger? Because the fullfill the asperger description because their asperger symptoms.

So you're doing a correlation that allows you to find the asperger real symptoms, using for it a sample of asperger people that has been selected because they have asperger symptoms. And how you decided those asperger symptoms that allow you to chose the sample of population? Well, you could make a correlation using another sample of asperger people that... ooops, s**t!

Yeap, it's a snake bitting its own tail.

That's the problem of not knowing what asperger really is. Basically it's a collection of symptoms, There's not foundation. If you define an asperger symptoms, they will include more people that share this symptom as people categorized as aspergers, which in turn will reinforce the idea that this is an asperger symptom. And this is gonna change very slowly.

If you check the traditinoal symptoms of asperger, stimming, repetitive behaviour, monotone voice, non visual contact, and so, all of them have something in common: they're very easy to perceive.

So the question would be? are some of those symptoms really a common characteristic of asperger, or aren't they the more usual ones, but, and this is what mattered, the most 'spectacular' ones?.


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Last edited by Greb on 05 May 2013, 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tyri0n
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05 May 2013, 2:36 am

If you check the traditinoal symptoms of asperger, stimming, repetitive behaviour, monotone voice, non visual contact, and so, all of them have something in common: they're very easy to perceive

I think there is more to Asperger's than that. I only meet the bolden one from your list and still got an official diagnosis, due to social isolation, flat affect, and avoidant behaviors.



Greb
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05 May 2013, 2:44 am

Tyri0n wrote:
If you check the traditinoal symptoms of asperger, stimming, repetitive behaviour, monotone voice, non visual contact, and so, all of them have something in common: they're very easy to perceive

I think there is more to Asperger's than that. I only meet the bolden one from your list and still got an official diagnosis, due to social isolation, flat affect, and avoidant behaviors.


Well, I don't have a monotone voice at all. Indeed, I have been told more than once that I could work in a radio.

However, I have an absolutely monotone look. I'm an auditory person, don't care really about the look. Most of my clothes have the same colour, so I don't have to worry about how they mix. When I love some piece of clothe, I buy three or four units, so I can wear the same style continuously and I don't need to change my look. Is that a 'traditional' asperger symptom? not as long as I know, though for me it's quite clear that it comes from my AS.


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